Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #22

[mrazda71]

I've followed trials in Canada, USA, Aruba, England, Italy, Peru and a few other places. USA law is unique in law compared to the British Commonwealth and Western European countries. I was stunned when following a NC trial and learned that the prosecution could lead with two weeks of neighbourhood dirty laundry to impugn the character of the accused. A huge benefit in Canadian and British law ... and Roman Law ... is that the accused is entirely innocent until the verdict. IN EUROPE AND ENGLAND, ONLY THE FIRST NAME OF THE ACCUSED CAN BE PUBLISHED PRIOR TO CONVICTION. In Canada as well, the media does not have talking heads discussing evidence and debating the outcome. Many people from the USA are doubtful when they hear that because it is such a difference interpretation of 'benefit of the doubt'. But - it's true. Impugning the character of an accused for two weeks prior to presenting the evidence of the case is unheard of. That was the Brad Cooper case where he murdered his wife in NC (where they lived). He and his wife are from Alberta.

The prosecution represents the People and is there to present facts. No one cares what the prosecutor thinks of the facts. The defence seeks to refute the facts with other facts. It's up to the jury to decide which facts matter more.

Re bold - when you say 'England' do you mean the UK? If so, then you're very wrong.
There is more released publicly about an accused than just their first name.
I can't even think where/how you would get that idea?

 

[musicaljoke]

All I keep thinking is:
If only they had heard something. If only AL had heard something and had time to defend himself and his family. There was a shotgun in the master bedroom. If only...

@KMartinCourts
Police found a shotgun on a closet shelf in the master bedroom of Kathy and Alvin Liknes. #garland
3:34 PM - 18 Jan 2017

Do we know if the gun belonged to the Liknes? I don't know what gun laws dictate in Alberta, but in Ontario, guns have to be locked up in a cabinet and ammunition stored away safey. Is it possible that they would have kept a gun in the closet on a day when they had an open house, and a night when the grandkids came for a sleepover?

When I read the comment about a shotgun in the closet, I wondered if it could have been brought into the home by Garland and hidden there, possibly having been used in the crime.

That's certainly not saying that it was used in the crime. I don't want to start a false idea. It just seems so wrong that the shotgun was found that was not locked up.

ETA gun storage laws are Federal, so they apply in Alberta too.
http://firearmslaw.ca/gun-law-resources/firearms-storage-transportation/

 

[Tupelo]

Do we know if the gun belonged to the Liknes? I don't know what gun laws dictate in Alberta, but in Ontario, guns have to be locked up in a cabinet and ammunition stored away safey. Is it possible that they would have kept a gun in the closet on a day when they had an open house, and a night when the grandkids came for a sleepover?

When I read the comment about a shotgun in the closet, I wondered if it could have been brought into the home by Garland and hidden there, possibly having been used in the crime.

That's certainly not saying that it was used in the crime. I don't want to start a false idea. It just seems so wrong that the shotgun was found that was not locked up.

ETA gun storage laws are Federal, so they apply in Alberta too.
http://firearmslaw.ca/gun-law-resources/firearms-storage-transportation/

Could AL have been concerned that DG was out for revenge? Perhaps there were signs that worried him.

 

[Krystine]

I don't think it's been established that the accident DG was said to have caused...was that one.

 

[mrazda71]

I've followed trials in Canada, USA, Aruba, England, Italy, Peru and a few other places. USA law is unique in law compared to the British Commonwealth and Western European countries. I was stunned when following a NC trial and learned that the prosecution could lead with two weeks of neighbourhood dirty laundry to impugn the character of the accused. A huge benefit in Canadian and British law ... and Roman Law ... is that the accused is entirely innocent until the verdict. In Europe and England, only the first name of the accused can be published prior to conviction. In Canada as well, the media does not have talking heads discussing evidence and debating the outcome. Many people from the USA are doubtful when they hear that because it is such a difference interpretation of 'benefit of the doubt'. But - it's true. Impugning the character of an accused for two weeks prior to presenting the evidence of the case is unheard of. That was the Brad Cooper case where he murdered his wife in NC (where they lived). He and his wife are from Alberta.

The prosecution represents the People and is there to present facts. No one cares what the prosecutor thinks of the facts. The defence seeks to refute the facts with other facts. It's up to the jury to decide which facts matter more.

Here's a very current example.

Full name, age and his address all but the number.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/38704276

 

[Tealgrove]

There may have been a trigger lock in place on the shotgun and/or the closet had a lock on the door. Either scenario, with the ammo locked up separately would be OK.

 

[Tupelo]

There may have been a trigger lock in place on the shotgun and/or the closet had a lock on the door. Either scenario, with the ammo locked up separately would be OK.

Could they have sold the gun cabinet during the moving sale?

 

[Bravo]

Just a thought but gun may have been something passed down. Old and rendered useless. We had an old shotgun here that was Hubby's Dad's. Unusable but kept for sentimental reasons. We did keep it in the gun cabinet only because we have many hunting guns and abide laws surrounding them. If we didn't have others to store I can understand a gun that cant fire just being stored in a closet etc. Just pondering here.

 

[Tealgrove]

I'd like to know if Alvin hunted or was the shotgun in the master bedroom for a reason?

 

[Blue Amethyst]

A friend of mine who was very close friends with the Hartley's told me about the accident. Aetna is a hamlet about ten miles east of Cardston. They all lived on farms in that area. It was at Halloween and the two kids took their Dad's truck without permission to go to the little country store to get Halloween costumes. They hit a neighbour and he was badly hurt. In 2014 I did not say his name because the people of the area were very upset when the press was hounding the older Hartley's about the accident. DG could have heard about the accident from one of many Cardston kids who attended U of A.

 

[Bravo]

I'd like to know if Alvin hunted or was the shotgun in the master bedroom for a reason?

Good question. It's just my opinion but Alvin was likely aware this guy had issues with him he wasn't letting go of. Perhaps the whole Family did. I am just going on Jennifer's statement when she entered the home that fateful morning.

 

[Sprigs]

My take is that his Mom likely kept shoes as she was from and era where you saved, and perhaps they would be of use one day? With four seasons and being on a farm it's not hard to imagine shoes adding up - rubber boots, winter boots, sandals, runners, dress shoes. There are two sisters, perhaps extended family that would visit? And, as he was still living at home, his maybe his Mom bought him the shoes at Walmart? He had no idea the box was saved. Sometimes I'll keep a shoe box to use later - for wrapping a gift, storage, whatever.

 

[otto]

Re bold - when you say 'England' do you mean the UK? If so, then you're very wrong.
There is more released publicly about an accused than just their first name.
I can't even think where/how you would get that idea?

Vincent Tabak's last name (murder of Joanna Yeates in Bristol) could not be published prior to trial, but possibly that was to respect Dutch law, which does not allow publication of the last name until conviction.

 

[mrazda71]

Vincent Tabak's last name (murder of Joanna Yeates in Bristol) could not be published prior to trial, but possibly that was to respect Dutch law, which does not allow publication of the last name until conviction.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....22/vincent-tabak-charged-murder-joanna-yeates

It was published plenty here in the UK.

 

[sublimemumma]

My take is that his Mom likely kept shoes as she was from and era where you saved, and perhaps they would be of use one day? With four seasons and being on a farm it's not hard to imagine shoes adding up - rubber boots, winter boots, sandals, runners, dress shoes. There are two sisters, perhaps extended family that would visit? And, as he was still living at home, his maybe his Mom bought him the shoes at Walmart? He had no idea the box was saved. Sometimes I'll keep a shoe box to use later - for wrapping a gift, storage, whatever.

Maybe I am reading to much into it though but they seemed to make a point of saying children's shoes were found too. I am going to look back but we're the shoeboxes not found in DG office space on the acreage?

 

[sublimemumma]

I find it strange that they seemed to make a point saying that there were children's shoes there. It's just a gut instinct that something seems off with that... also if someone had a hoarding issue I could see that but the boxes I believe were in DG office space on the acreage. Here is a link talking about the shoes boxes.

http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...er-trial-ranges-from-the-academic-to-dramatic

 

[Sprigs]

Sorry, wasn't aware of that when I posted. But, still - crown/police has had two years to investigate other murders/incidents regarding DG and at this time he has only been charged with crimes related to A/K L and NO. It may come out shoes of the victims were located - hence reference to children's shoes.

 

[Kamille]

I find it strange that they seemed to make a point saying that there were children's shoes there. It's just a gut instinct that something seems off with that... also if someone had a hoarding issue I could see that but the boxes I believe were in DG office space on the acreage. Here is a link talking about the shoes boxes.

http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...er-trial-ranges-from-the-academic-to-dramatic

Perhaps the suggestion is that there were 130 pairs of shoes there, from children's sizes right on up that could have belonged to DG over the years. Shoes that were old and worn and no longer useful, but the one pair that was a more recent purchase, as evidenced by the shoebox still being on his desk, was missing? And the missing pair just happened to match the bloody footprints?

MOO

ETA: That might actually have been alluded to in court but we miss so much in the tweets.

 

[sublimemumma]

I know I keep going back on this but I find it weird that DG took the name of someone killed in a car accident. Then claiming he was in one causing his breakdown. He was "being" the character of MH who was in the actual accident during the time when he claimed an accident caused his breakdown. Not sure how to word all this but could it be possible he started to believe he actually was the person in the identity he stole?

Please read this article, I just stumbled across it when I was looking for dates of when his "breakdown" happened. It is a very good article with somewhat of a time frame of DG adult life.

http://o.canada.com/news/national/b...w-and-mental-health-concerns-documents-reveal

It also talks about how there were charges dropped related to violence and then later states there was a hearing that deemed him unlikely to be violent.

The article says this:

"But the documents also refer to several criminal charges for violence Garland once faced, a two-decades long record for property offences and ongoing “mental health concerns.”

"The decisions note that one charge for possession of a prohibited weapon was dismissed in 1988, another withdrawn in 1999, while an assault charge was stayed in 1989."

"Despite what the board described as “weapons and assault charges” that might indicate Garland, then 40, could commit a violent offence, it concluded his age, the fact he’d never been convicted for violence and a psychological assessment that found he had little potential for violence offset that."

"Board members were concerned by his “20-plus years” of property offences and contributing “mental issues,” but concluded, “Your mental health is assessed as having stabilized and with close monitoring” by a psychiatrist and psychologist until what’s called his “warrant expiry date” in October of 2003, he was deemed a manageable risk."

I also don't believe for one instant that he has never killed before. I don't think someone escalates into doing something like this all at once. I believe with his age and the extent of what he did this was a gradual build up to this. I also don't doubt that his sister seeing the truck put a damper on his clean up and the pictures of the bodies on the farm could not of been expected. Without all these coincidences could he not of got away with murder before, possibly in BC in a earlier year when investigating crime scenes weren't so "telling" with all the technology now?

I am trying to understand his mental state. I know I will never understand his way of thinking. I am not one of those who believe in not criminally responsible for mental reasons but I guess it may ease my mind a bit that a person could just go off the rails and do these things...

 

[sublimemumma]

Perhaps the suggestion is that there were 130 pairs of shoes there, from children's sizes right on up that could have belonged to DG over the years. Shoes that were old and worn and no longer useful, but the one pair that was a more recent purchase, as evidenced by the shoebox still being on his desk, was missing? And the missing pair just happened to match the bloody footprints?

MOO

ETA: That might actually have been alluded to in court but we miss so much in the tweets.

Yes so hard to say with only reading tweets