Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #22

[musicaljoke]

DG's shoe size had to have been verified prior to all this talk of his shoe size of 13 wide at trial.

Jmo

It really doesn't matter what his regular shoe size is. He could be a size 9 and it wouldn't make any difference to the outcome. What's important to know is whether or not he was the person who wore the size 13 shoes that left prints at the crime scene.

 

[kdgdid]

I thought I read a tweet that their wallets were found and some cash in a box/container(?) something along those lines…I thought maybe cash from the estate sale. I don't think it was a lot of money either, so whatever money was lying around - sounds like he didn't take any of it.

LE found K's wallet they did not say if there was money in it. They also found a cash box with 2 cheques for a hundred dollars and 50 dollars cash.
AL's wallet was not mentioned as being found.

 

[Katharine]

<modsnip> I do not blame the parents but I very curious why a 'spry' Mrs. Garland did not notice a foul smell coming from burn barrels for hours or days.

Weekly psychiatrist visits <modsnip>? Did they not notice the shoes? Was a meat hook out in the open on a farm with no animals? The paraphernalia was probably hidden, but with the psychiatric visits would they not snoop to make sure he wasn't sliding? Just weird family dynamic maybe&#8230;and like you say, maybe he intimidated them.

It is so hard to understand. You raise good points. They also knew his criminal background...yet I guess the parents seemed to want to protect him not believe he could do more bad things and chose seemingly blind eyes. <modsnip>

What indicates the need for weekly mental health follow up by professionals?? Was he on any medications?? What causes his periodic breakdowns?? Is he bipolar?? in addition to the AADD. He seemed to be very intelligent...under his assumed identity he became a supervisor though had a breakdown that led to dismissal.

Thank you all for the good discussions...it helps so much..thanks for providing links for more information. Thanks too for those who provide tweets from the trial.

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Sorry to be newbie to this case. I've tried to read this thread, but it's really long. Can anyone recommend a summary?

Welcome Tupelo, I'm just getting caught up today, but did anyone help you so far with the summary? I can pull up at least one fairly quickly. Otto did one not long ago for Tricia, the site owner...

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Sorry to be newbie to this case. I've tried to read this thread, but it's really long. Can anyone recommend a summary?

Tupelo, start here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Brien-5-grandparents-Alvin-and-Kathy-Liknes-1
It has links to the media page, maps etc but as you scroll down you'll see a brief and not fully complete summary as of the start of the trial.

From Otto's excellent quick summary: (from just before the trial started)
After the discovery that the three people were missing, police released a photo of a truck (with some distinctive features) in relation to the disappearance of the couple and their grandson. That led to the suspect, but there was not yet evidence tying him to the disappearance. At the scene of the crime, there was sufficient blood, and blood drag marks outside the house, for police to state that at the very least the missing persons were in "medical distress".

The couple's daughter, and mother of the child, discovered the scene.

Police obtained a search warrant for the residence of the suspect - who was living on his parent's acreage North of Calgary. A tent was set up over the area of a burn pit, and a grid search was performed on the property.

Canadian law does not permit the disclosure of trial evidence prior to the trial, so we don't know much more than that at the time. However, given that intact bodies have not been found, and there is no search for the victims, it's not much of a stretch to suspect that evidence of the victims was found in the burn pit. Additionally, it was reported early on that the neighbours observed a fire on the property that went on for hours through the night. It probably took a couple of days for the bodies to burn to bone fragments, ash, and teeth.

This article provides a timeline: http://globalnews.ca/news/1445696/ti...athryn-liknes/

 

[Lalalacasbah]

A friend of mine who was very close friends with the Hartley's told me about the accident. Aetna is a hamlet about ten miles east of Cardston. They all lived on farms in that area. It was at Halloween and the two kids took their Dad's truck without permission to go to the little country store to get Halloween costumes. They hit a neighbour and he was badly hurt. In 2014 I did not say his name because the people of the area were very upset when the press was hounding the older Hartley's about the accident. DG could have heard about the accident from one of many Cardston kids who attended U of A.

Very interesting...Maybe he stole their story to use as his own. I feel like DG has zero personality and maybe in his life he tried to mimic things. Like the villain in The Talented Mr. Ripley kind of thing…taking on bits and pieces of other people's lives or something.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

LE found K's wallet they did not say if there was money in it. They also found a cash box with 2 cheques for a hundred dollars and 50 dollars cash.
AL's wallet was not mentioned as being found.

Thanks! I couldn't remember the details.

 

[Rayemonde]

So he was busted for trying to set up a meth lab on his parents' farm... Did he use meth himself? That could certainly explain why his mental health problems seem to have gotten worse and worse... Jmo.

 

[JadeSLeuth]

So he was busted for trying to set up a meth lab on his parents' farm... Did he use meth himself? That could certainly explain why his mental health problems seem to have gotten worse and worse... Jmo.

I would guess he at least experimented with it
MOO

 

[CentralAlberta]

It is so hard to understand. You raise good points. They also knew his criminal background...yet I guess the parents seemed to want to protect him not believe he could do more bad things and chose seemingly blind eyes. <modsnip>

What indicates the need for weekly mental health follow up by professionals?? Was he on any medications?? What causes his periodic breakdowns?? Is he bipolar?? in addition to the AADD. He seemed to be very intelligent...under his assumed identity he became a supervisor though had a breakdown that led to dismissal.

Thank you all for the good discussions...it helps so much..thanks for providing links for more information. Thanks too for those who provide tweets from the trial.

I think his parents always gave him the benefit of the doubt. I think it is human nature to want to believe in our children regardless of what they may have done in the past. He was probably looking after the farm and his parents. Maybe it was because of him that they were able to still be living at a place that would require so much work. As it appeared to them, he was probably doing very well. His mom stated he did not discuss things much with her and she probably didn't press him for fear of another break down.

 

[Tealgrove]

It appears that DG has been a "problem child" his entire life. Fast forward to 2017 and here we are.

<modsnip>

Sad on all fronts. [emoji17]


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[Georgeo]

Maybe the 130 pairs of shoes are "trophy" souvenirs from previous crimes or murders. With this guy,anything seems possible. Jmo

 

[musicaljoke]

Just a thought but gun may have been something passed down. Old and rendered useless. We had an old shotgun here that was Hubby's Dad's. Unusable but kept for sentimental reasons. We did keep it in the gun cabinet only because we have many hunting guns and abide laws surrounding them. If we didn't have others to store I can understand a gun that cant fire just being stored in a closet etc. Just pondering here.

Well, that could be the case. My dad kept a gun with a curved barrel in his gun cabinet. He joked that it was for shooting around corners.

My theory is that the officer mentioned "the gun" because it's going to come up in the trial again later and that this officer established the location of the gun and who found it. jmo. I think it might be part of the reason why Doug G's parents were asked if Doug did any hunting. Again, just guessing.

I would think that if they worried about an intruder, that they would get an alarm, motion sensor lights, or some kind of security system on their house.

JO wasn't asked if her parents had a gun or not, was she? Was anyone asked if Liknes had a gun?

 

[Errrr]

If DG had access to the estate cash it seems strange that he wouldn't just take what he thought he was owed instead of serving them a death sentence. How much must he have thought his contribution was worth?

 

[garbagetweet]

I would think that if they worried about an intruder, that they would get an alarm, motion sensor lights, or some kind of security system on their house.

JO wasn't asked if her parents had a gun or not, was she? Was anyone asked if Liknes had a gun?

A security system is great in theory but if someone breaks into my house when I'm home I'm not going to rely on the security system for help. The gun is going to be much better for protection. Response time to an alarm could be tens of minutes up to hours.

 

[otto]

If DG had access to the estate cash it seems strange that he wouldn't just take what he thought he was owed instead of serving them a death sentence. How much must he have thought his contribution was worth?

The sale of their used furniture and household items was a couple hundred dollars. His work on the patent design is worth a lot more.

The pump was built on Garland's acreage. We have heard that Garland was not paid for his work, that Liknes (Alvin or perhaps Allen) stole from the property (probably the pump), and that Garland's name was omitted from the patent application. This should have been resolved with payment for services and product, and an amendment to the patent application.

Given what we learned about Alvin's many businesses, i don't doubt Garland's claims.

 

[otto]

A security system is great in theory but if someone breaks into my house when I'm home I'm not going to rely on the security system for help. The gun is going to be much better for protection. Response time to an alarm could be tens of minutes up to hours.

That sounds like something that happens in Detroit, not Calgary.

 

[Leeesh]

Possibly surveillance where he may have made a purchase before the crime?

Well, that could be the case. My dad kept a gun with a curved barrel in his gun cabinet. He joked that it was for shooting around corners.

My theory is that the officer mentioned "the gun" because it's going to come up in the trial again later and that this officer established the location of the gun and who found it. jmo. I think it might be part of the reason why Doug G's parents were asked if Doug did any hunting. Again, just guessing.

I would think that if they worried about an intruder, that they would get an alarm, motion sensor lights, or some kind of security system on their house.

JO wasn't asked if her parents had a gun or not, was she? Was anyone asked if Liknes had a gun?

I don't recall JO being asked if her parents hunted or if they owned a gun at all. I thought when they said they found the gun in the closet that DG put it there.

 

[Tealgrove]

The sale of their used furniture and household items was a couple hundred dollars. His work on the patent design is worth a lot more.

The pump was built on Garland's acreage. We have heard that Garland was not paid for his work, that Liknes (Alvin or perhaps Allen) stole from the property (probably the pump), and that Garland's name was omitted from the patent application. This should have been resolved with payment for services and product, and an amendment to the patent application.

Given what we learned about Alvin's many businesses, i don't doubt Garland's claims.

I hear what you are saying however, we have a man who is a documented criminal, stole a dead teenager's identity and lived under said identity for quite some time which is, in my book, a pretty big lie. He has documented mental issues and the list goes on.

Right now, all we have are DG's complaints about Alvin and Alvin isn't around to tell his side of the story.

I do doubt DG's claims, as he is a mentally ill criminal with a propensity for lying and cheating.

MOO

 

[otto]

I hear what you are saying however, we have a man who is a documented criminal, stole a dead teenager's identity and lived under said identity for quite some time which is, in my book, a pretty big lie. He has documented mental issues and the list goes on.

Right now, all we have are DG's complaints about Alvin and Alvin isn't around to tell his side of the story.

I do doubt DG's claims, as he is a mentally ill criminal with a propensity for lying and cheating.

MOO

No one is questioning Garland's criminal history.
There was a lot of sleuthing of Alvin and Kathryn Liknes in 2014 to better understand what happened. In addition to a couple of bankruptcies and many different oil companies, there was also a bank account in Panama. Liknes had an interesting business history.