Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #24

[otto]

When the ME stated on the stand that there were 3 blood-letting locations, she specified the third location as being the entryway.

Meghan Grant ?@CBCMeg Feb 1
Brooks-Lim attended Liknes' home on July 2, 2014 at 11:49 am. She was there w/ officer who is blood stain pattern expert #Garland

Meghan Grant ?@CBCMeg Feb 1
During walkthrough -3 areas of bloodletting w/ in home. 2 bedrooms & entry way. Also noted bloody drag trails and transfer patterns #Garland

Any thoughts on why she omitted the drag marks and blood letting (marker 15) on the sidewalk and driveway?

 

[MistyWaters]

I thought so too, but I'm going with the idea that there are additional pictures and video of the truck and the 'white' thing'.

My thoughts as well. Perhaps another expert witness has yet to be called, one who's analyzed the CCTV footage considering the truck's movement. If I had to guess, it might be that the far edge of the sheet was flapping up and down.

The July long week immediately preceding the Stampede, during the boomtime when people were flocking to Calgary with their worldly possessions in the back of their old truck, even though traffic would be light at 5am, a flapping sheet would likely not attract any attention at all.

JMO

 

[deugirtni]

Very helpful! Thank you. I didn't expect that he would return to the scene of the crime, but it looks like he did. Thankfully Jennifer did not go to the house early in the morning.

I wonder why the cuts on Garland's head were not noticed. If he had secured live victims on the Airdrie property, why would he have given them a chance to injure him?

The cuts and bruises photographed on DG were taken on July 5, 2014, some 5 days after the family 'disappeared', and 5 days after his visit with his psychiatrist. Why are we assuming that these minor injuries are associated with the victims?

Note: These tweets must be read bottom to top, sorry:

Meghan Grant ?@CBCMeg Jan 24
Now close ups of #Garland face, abrasions on his upper lip, top of his head, pretty big bruise on outside of right knee

Meghan Grant ?@CBCMeg Jan 24
Photos shown now of #Garland in jeans, sock feet and white t-shirt with some kind of blue logo/design on the front

Meghan Grant ?@CBCMeg Jan 24
Meghan Grant Retweeted Meghan Grant
CORRECTION: July 5
Meghan Grant added,
Meghan Grant @CBCMeg
Blackwood photographed Garland at 7:00 p.m. on July 4. Said #Garland was calm. We're about to see the photos

Meghan Grant ?@CBCMeg Jan 24
Blackwood photographed Garland at 7:00 p.m. on July 4. Said #Garland was calm. We're about to see the photos

Meghan Grant ?@CBCMeg Jan 24
CPS Cst. David Blackwood was w/ forensic crime scene unit in '14. Was at arrest processing unit to photograph #Garland, seize clothing

 

[Cherchri]

There are also these photos from the driveway. They are at the end of the 8 metre long drag marks beside the house.

I have seen many posts referencing "litres of blood", "signs of a violent struggle" and so on. Actually, from the photos we have seen, I consider there to be very little blood and almost no signs of a "violent struggle". Instead. I see evidence that ties in with my original theorey - these people were bludgeoned in their sleep.

 

[otto]

I have seen many posts referencing "litres of blood", "signs of a violent struggle" and so on. Actually, from the photos we have seen, I consider there to be very little blood and almost no signs of a "violent struggle". Instead. I see evidence that ties in with my original theorey - these people were bludgeoned in their sleep.

Eye witness statement from reporter on scene morning victims discovered missing:

"Drag marks could be seen near evidence tags on the walkway of a home where three people were reported missing Monday.

Police would not comment on the drag marks, which ran about eight metres from a side door to the driveway and appeared to be a dark liquid that was recently cleaned up."

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/07/0...lgary-grandparents-and-young-boy-went-missing

 

[MistyWaters]

There is no such as a "botched kidnapping" defence to first degree murder. This is because if a death occurs during kidnapping, whether planned or not, it is automatically first degree murder.



Highly doubt that.

A botched kidnapping - if the Prosecution advanced the theory that Garland intended to kidnap the trio, and if the jury was doubtful that the trio were alive when they were transported to the acreage, then a kidnapping could not have occurred.

What is left is a bloody, violent incident at the Liknes residence, but cause of death cannot be determined, Garland only has a few minor cuts and a bruise on his knee and left behind no DNA, blood nor fingerprints, a two hour timespan of CCTV. The defendant is Innocent until proven guilty beyond seasonable doubt.

In the above scenario, a First Degree murder conviction could not occur because a kidnapping did not occur.

IMO this is why the Prosecution is avoiding allegations of the lesser charge of kidnapping.

Premeditated murder, planned and intentional in the First Degree.

At this point in time we don't know what the defence plans and neither does the Prosecution.

 

[MistyWaters]

From the Calgary Herald regarding tomorrow. The way this is written it appears the Prosecution believes the bodies were viewable via the aerial photographs both days, July 1st and 2nd.

Earlier it seemed the mapping company captured an aerial photograph on either July 1st or July 2nd.

One or the other.


"Faulkner detailed how an aerial photography company was doing mapping for the City of Airdrie and flew over the Garland farm on July 1 and 2, 2014.

“You will see the aerial photos during the trial … you will have to look at them and determine what they show for yourself, but the Crown states they clearly show the bodies of Alvin, Kathryn and Nathan."
http://calgaryherald.com/news/crime...-stage-at-douglas-garland-triple-murder-trial


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Hatfield]

My thoughts as well. Perhaps another expert witness has yet to be called, one who's analyzed the CCTV footage considering the truck's movement. If I had to guess, it might be that the far edge of the sheet was flapping up and down.

The July long week immediately preceding the Stampede, during the boomtime when people were flocking to Calgary with their worldly possessions in the back of their old truck, even though traffic would be light at 5am, a flapping sheet would likely not attract any attention at all.

JMO

IMO
I noticed the truck lights were on so it may have been darker than the photo makes it appear to be.

The white tarp or cloth appears to be just below the tailgate so if someone was behind him then I dont think they could actually see it unless it happened to flap up.

From the looks of it I think the edges were mostly tucked underneath the weight of the bodies or it could have been tied around with string or even duct tape.

Regardless of how well he secured the white covering its obvious to me that DG took some risks. He was cutting the timing real close to it getting more daylight. He took quite a few other risks like the neighbors may have by chance seen him if they happened to be up very early or heard some noises. Going to his doctor appointment was another risk he took to even show up there and have all this other stuff going on.

I think he enjoyed some of the risk taking and it may have been part of his thrill in doing the crime.

 

[naz]

IMO
I noticed the truck lights were on so it may have been darker than the photo makes it appear to be.

The white tarp or cloth appears to be just below the tailgate so if someone was behind him then I dont think they could actually see it unless it happened to flap up.

From the looks of it I think the edges were mostly tucked underneath the weight of the bodies or it could have been tied around with string or even duct tape.

Regardless of how well he secured the white covering its obvious to me that DG took some risks. He was cutting the timing real close to it getting more daylight. He took quite a few other risks like the neighbors may have by chance seen him if they happened to be up very early or heard some noises. Going to his doctor appointment was another risk he took to even show up there and have all this other stuff going on.

I think he enjoyed some of the risk taking and it may have been part of his thrill in doing the crime.

Same as the last time he drove by the house, around 8AM I think. It seems that he was scouting the area, not because he wanted to re-enter the house, but maybe to see if he had to change his plans. People would have been in and out, he was too cunning to make too big of a mistake.. but the police just as easily close off traffic, and made inquiries already. The risks he took were is downfall, a very dangerous man will be put away, and I hope that I won't remember his name..

 

[Kamille]

The white thing in the back of the truck - I'm not convinced that it is a white thing in the back of the truck, based on the photo - could it be a reflection? as others have mentioned, doesn't it seem too high in relation to the upper edge of the tailgate? only an idiot would stack 3 dead bodies at the rear end of his box to transport them someplace else (was it half an hour away??) using public roads? Is it possible it is instead something 'beside' the green truck, whether another vehicle or something at the edge of the road, which 'appears' to be 'inside' the box of the truck, but really isn't? For the white thing to be that HIGH, wouldn't that mean all 3 bodies are piled one on top of another.. which would be insane?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...e-murder-liknes-nathan-obrien-teeth-1.3963432

Probably a loosely tied down tarp or sheet that was blowing up in the wind.

MOO

 

[musicaljoke]

IMO
I noticed the truck lights were on so it may have been darker than the photo makes it appear to be.

The white tarp or cloth appears to be just below the tailgate so if someone was behind him then I dont think they could actually see it unless it happened to flap up.

From the looks of it I think the edges were mostly tucked underneath the weight of the bodies or it could have been tied around with string or even duct tape.

Regardless of how well he secured the white covering its obvious to me that DG took some risks. He was cutting the timing real close to it getting more daylight. He took quite a few other risks like the neighbors may have by chance seen him if they happened to be up very early or heard some noises. Going to his doctor appointment was another risk he took to even show up there and have all this other stuff going on.

I think he enjoyed some of the risk taking and it may have been part of his thrill in doing the crime.

I hate to think this, but, I am sure that the back of the truck also held his dastardly "tools".

 

[deugirtni]

Any thoughts on why she omitted the drag marks and blood letting (marker 15) on the sidewalk and driveway?

I don't think she omitted them. She also said, "Also noted bloody drag trails and transfer patterns"

By 'blood-letting', I think she meant.. a large amount, likely where the assault occurred. moo.

 

[Kamille]

I hate to think this, but, I am sure that the back of the truck also held his dastardly "tools".

I don't think any victim DNA was found on the bag or on the items in the bag. I thought I recalled that only the suspect's DNA was found on these items? Bag was probably left in the cab? Or is that his decoy "hide in plain sight" plan? :waitasec:

MOO

 

[Georgeo]

Tomorrow will be very interesting to see the aerial photos, and see how the feeling of where trial is headed changes amongst those on this site.

 

[deugirtni]

I don't think any victim DNA was found on the bag or on the items in the bag. I thought I recalled that only the suspect's DNA was found on these items? Bag was probably left in the cab? Or is that his decoy "hide in plain sight" plan? :waitasec:

MOO

That bag and its contents may have had zero to do with this crime. It may have been his tag-along when attending BDSM 'munches', for all we know. (I'm saying this since only his own DNA, and not any of the victims', was found on the items in the bag). Same with any of the other things stockpiled in the garages and various outbuildings. His mother testified that he went weekly to auctions. The stuff he deliberately purchased at PA carries more meaning (for me) than the things he was hoarding in the buildings. jmo

 

[deugirtni]

Does anyone know the distance/time it would take to travel by car between L & G residences?

 

[otto]

I don't think she omitted them. She also said, "Also noted bloody drag trails and transfer patterns"

By 'blood-letting', I think she meant.. a large amount, likely where the assault occurred. moo.

Does that mean original attack? Was Kathryn perhaps at the back door, thinking that Jennifer was locked out?

 

[otto]

Does anyone know the distance/time it would take to travel by car between L & G residences?

According to google maps, it's 37km, and 31 minutes, from 123 38A ave SW to Airdrie. Add another 5-10 minutes from Airdrie to the acreage.

 

[deugirtni]

Does that mean original attack? Was Kathryn perhaps at the back door, thinking that Jennifer was locked out?

The initial attack is the meaning I derived from the ME's words. I suppose we won't know for sure until the Crown brings their DNA people to the stand, whose DNA was found in which location. I interpreted it to mean that one of the 3 victims was assaulted at the entryway. Could have been either KL or AL. I was thinking that perhaps AL heard the drill being used on the doorknob and he was bold enough to approach without fear, instead of calling 911. But I suppose it also could have been KL thinking it was JO back again? (But what about the drill noise?) Or could it have been whichever one was sleeping downstairs, who heard the noise and came to the entryway? I shudder to even think which one it could have been at the entryway, since to me, it means that one of the three was not asleep when attacked. moo.

 

[otto]

The initial attack is the meaning I derived from the ME's words. I suppose we won't know for sure until the Crown brings their DNA people to the stand, whose DNA was found in which location. I interpreted it to mean that one of the 3 victims was assaulted at the entryway. Could have been either KL or AL. I was thinking that perhaps AL heard the drill being used on the doorknob and he was bold enough to approach without fear, instead of calling 911. But I suppose it also could have been KL thinking it was JO back again? (But what about the drill noise?) Or could it have been whichever one was sleeping downstairs, who heard the noise and came to the entryway? I shudder to even think which one it could have been at the entryway, since to me, it means that one of the three was not asleep when attacked. moo.

Thanks! If that's the case, then my guess is that Kathryn was at the door, Nathan was in the upstairs bedroom or he ran there when he saw Garland - not realizing that his mom was gone, and Alvin was in his bed. Was Jennifer in the spare room with the baby, Nathan was in the basement with Kathryn, and that would put Alvin in the master bedroom? Perhaps she was on the inside listening to see what was happening when Garland burst in.

That would mean that they were all awake at the time of the attack ... with Nathan hiding in the bedroom where his mom should have been, Alvin and Garland struggling with the overturned TV in the master bedroom, and Kathryn perhaps most injured at the side entrance?