Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #26

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deugirtni said:
I was going to ask about that. In this case specifically, why then, would DG have opted for a jury trial? It doesn't make sense.
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In a jury trial the verdict is announced right at the conclusion of it. Comparing to bench trials, the Judge's verdict is delivered at some future point. For example the Vader verdict was announced more than two months after the trial ended.
 
deugirtni said:
I was going to ask about that. In this case specifically, why then, would DG have opted for a jury trial? It doesn't make sense.
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Imo the evidence against DG is so strong that his only chance was a jury trial. Maybe 1 juror is on his side and if they can hold out at least he gets a hung jury. I can't imagine any judge looking at this evidence and not finding him guilty of murder in the 1st degree.

That being said i think we all agree he has no chance jury or bench trial!
 
olivebpa1 said:
Imo the evidence against DG is so strong that his only chance was a jury trial. Maybe 1 juror is on his side and if they can hold out at least he gets a hung jury. I can't imagine any judge looking at this evidence and not finding him guilty of murder in the 1st degree.

That being said i think we all agree he has no chance jury or bench trial!
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If this was his thinking, it might be a good strategy. Look at our comments here on WS, we are not all in agreement as to whether the victims died at the house or farm, and whether this has an impact on first versus second degree, especially in the case of NO. If we don't all agree, it's possible the jury won't either. MOO


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deugirtni said:
I was going to ask about that. In this case specifically, why then, would DG have opted for a jury trial? It doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...

I think he really wanted the public to hear his side of the story. This seems to all come down to the decision to not include Garland's name on the patent. Garland felt that he was wronged and he probably thought that if people knew the whole story, they would understand why he did what he did. There's no question that he was not thinking straight, so his decisions after the murders would also be part of his disturbed thinking.
 
lecomte said:
I don't think it's really fair to question the competence of the psychiatrist/psychologist. They can only deal with whatever the patient/client presents, and if DG was there for a different issue than his grudge against the L's and his murderous intent, then they have no way to know about it. People lie or avoid topics in therapy, and if DG was set on his plan to murder someone, I highly doubt he was going to walk into an appointment and tell his therapist that.
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Garland was angry about the patent deal for four years. The psychiatrist should have been aware of what was on Garland's mind during their weekly meetings. Garland probably talked about it in 2010, and most likely off and on until the murders. I too have to wonder why the psychiatrist did not recognize that Garland was off the deep end in terms of thinking about revenge, or have insight that the Liknes couple were in danger.
 
otto said:
Garland was angry about the patent deal for four years. The psychiatrist should have been aware of what was on Garland's mind during their weekly meetings. Garland probably talked about it in 2010, and most likely off and on until the murders. I too have to wonder why the psychiatrist did not recognize that Garland was off the deep end in terms of thinking about revenge, or have insight that the Liknes couple were in danger.
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It would be interesting to know more about the motive. But don't we all know people with that type of personality where they lay 100% blame and hold many grudges against others, although it doesn't make them dangerous. I'm referring to people where often their story morphs a little each year, as often happens with a one-sided version. Wrong done by bosses, ex-spouses, police officers, bankers are all common themes.

I'd bet Garland held grudges on virtually everyone whom he crossed paths with and the one with AL just happened to rise to the top.
 
MistyWaters said:
In a jury trial the verdict is announced right at the conclusion of it. Comparing to bench trials, the Judge's verdict is delivered at some future point. For example the Vader verdict was announced more than two months after the trial ended.
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Yes, but so? I'm sure he would've been willing to wait an additional 2 months to hear the verdict. The jurors would be emotionally charged and feeling sorry for the victims, whereas a judge alone is kind of used to hearing this type of thing, and is educated on 'the law', and would know which things in the testimony aren't adding up, or whatever... he would know if the Crown had 'proven' beyond a reasonable doubt that DG was guilty as charged.. whereas with the jury, DG is taking his chances that the verdict is going to be based on emotion and compassion. jmo.
 
otto said:
I think he really wanted the public to hear his side of the story. This seems to all come down to the decision to not include Garland's name on the patent. Garland felt that he was wronged and he probably thought that if people knew the whole story, they would understand why he did what he did. There's no question that he was not thinking straight, so his decisions after the murders would also be part of his disturbed thinking.
Click to expand...

The public would have heard his side of the story (actually I don't believe we did ever hear his side of the story, regardless!), regardless of whether his trial was judge-only, or judge&jury. It would still have been reported on in the news, the same way it was in this jury trial.
 
GRAPHIC LINK CONTACT ALERT ... CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH.

I follow an account on Instagram of a lady who is a pathology assistant. She has an amazing account but it is VERY GRAPHIC. it's meant to educate and it is very educational. She made a post yesterday about blood spatter and blunt force trauma which is VERY GRAPHIC but very informative. She also has a post down a bit further about amputation featuring the Percy Amputation Retractor which DG was researching.

I hope it is okay to post the link, it is an educational account but VERY GRAPHIC https://www.instagram.com/mrs_angemi/

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I'm still wondering why did DG target KL and was looking online for gynecology instruments and scalpels! and it seems that she had suffered more injuries/blood loss while he said to his sister that Alvin and Allen had stolen some property from the farm? What property? Maybe it was not/or not only over the patent or/and money or this enigmatic property? DG was also searching online for "bullying" so maybe there is a clue (?) Some of you already asked why didn't he just sue them if he felt he was not treated fairly. He won with CRA! Why did he want hurt them/make them suffer physically so badly over a material thing? Is it possible that KL and AL knew/found out smth about some of DG's secrets and that's why he did not choose to sue them? Or maybe he knew it will be the lost case and that's way he did not even try. Is it possible that KL and/or AL made him suffer in a way intentionally or not?
 
Olivia&Eve said:
http://panow.com/article/646965/regina-juror-seeking-help-after-disturbing-goforth-murder-trial

This was just in our local news. So sad that our province offers no support to jurors post-trial. Looks like government funded counselling for Jurors is a relatively new concept in Canada.

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Really sad that she felt such trauma from doing a civic duty. From what I have read, the new service is only a few months old, but I am not positive of that.


otto said:
Garland was angry about the patent deal for four years. The psychiatrist should have been aware of what was on Garland's mind during their weekly meetings. Garland probably talked about it in 2010, and most likely off and on until the murders. I too have to wonder why the psychiatrist did not recognize that Garland was off the deep end in terms of thinking about revenge, or have insight that the Liknes couple were in danger.
Click to expand...

I think it would have been very easy for him to see a psychiatrist every week and keep his inner thoughts hidden. I get the impression (and could be wrong) that he could participate quite like a "normal person" when it suited him or circumstances were easy to handle. If he knew right from wrong and could separate his thoughts, he would be able to present before a psychiatrist/ doctor/counselor and not blab about his deep-seated angers, especially if he had a plan in the works. I doubt he told psych about his computer searches and books, his collections of knives and handcuffs, etc.

JMO
 
Georgeo said:
Not in Ontario!
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Well we kinda do but near impossible to happen. I've tried to have my son committed and longest they ever kept him was for 24 hours. Clearly not enough time to observe him properly. Makes me sad. I've tried to get him help
Since he was 15 now he is 21 and nothing has changed.


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I'm not a pro so I (as many of you) can just guess that DG might suffer more than ADHD. I can also guess that his psychiatrist even though he is not able to get into the heads of his patients possess enough of experience to know that DG might have more issues associated with ADHD and that he was not able to help him out so why didn't he recommend someone else or if he did why DG did not search for an additional help?

One of the review from the website listed below:

I've been using Dr Fischer's expertise on and off for about 10 years for my adult ADD. I'm the type of person who likes to understand and Dr Fischer helped me so much with that. Our typical hour-long sessions have involved him getting information out of me for 15-20 minutes, and then spending the rest of the time giving me very detailed information about my condition so that I can better understand and cope with it. He is not a psychiatrist to see for depression or mental breakdowns, though - not his specialty. I went through a phase in my life like that and he told me very upfront & bluntly that he could not help me with these issues. I appreciated that much more than him randomly drugging me and wasting his time outside his field of expertise. He is a very valuable asset for people with ADD issues and I am exceedingly grateful for all the assistance he's given me throughout my adult life. Thank you, Tom.

https://www.ratemds.com/doctor-ratings/64411/Dr-Thomas-Fischer-Calgary-AB.html?page=2
 
PrincessButtercup said:
GRAPHIC LINK CONTACT ALERT ... CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH.

I follow an account on Instagram of a lady who is a pathology assistant. She has an amazing account but it is VERY GRAPHIC. it's meant to educate and it is very educational. She made a post yesterday about blood spatter and blunt force trauma which is VERY GRAPHIC but very informative. She also has a post down a bit further about amputation featuring the Percy Amputation Retractor which DG was researching.

I hope it is okay to post the link, it is an educational account but VERY GRAPHIC https://www.instagram.com/mrs_angemi/

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Holy crap! It's the kind of stuff that I can't help but look at though sometimes from behind a cushion!
 
marmot4 said:
I'm still wondering why did DG target KL and was looking online for gynecology instruments and scalpels! and it seems that she had suffered more injuries/blood loss while he said to his sister that Alvin and Allen had stolen some property from the farm? What property? Maybe it was not/or not only over the patent or/and money or this enigmatic property? DG was also searching online for "bullying" so maybe there is a clue (?) Some of you already asked why didn't he just sue them if he felt he was not treated fairly. He won with CRA! Why did he want hurt them/make them suffer physically so badly over a material thing? Is it possible that KL and AL knew/found out smth about some of DG's secrets and that's why he did not choose to sue them? Or maybe he knew it will be the lost case and that's way he did not even try. Is it possible that KL and/or AL made him suffer in a way intentionally or not?
Click to expand...

The Liknes couple had been at the Garland home for special occasion dinners after Garland became obsessed with the patent work. It's possible that Kathryn said something that led Garland to blame her as well.

The property that was taken from the Garland acreage is the prototype for the patent. Without the prototype, perhaps he couldn't prove that he completed the wiring for the patent application.
 
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