Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #27

[ABro]

Including the author.

LOL.

Definitely would love to know the details of Garland's life.

But, I do think people who work on these cases for a living -- like cops, prosecutors, journalists -- are better at accepting what can't be known.

 

[Spellbound]

See, I don't understand the big deal about two different shoe sizes. Let's say there are. I believe DG is the type of guy who would purposely put on a different size shoe and leave prints just to confuse investigators. He read all those crime books. It's the first thing I thought of when I read people thought the shoe size was different. I can even see DG wearing shoes that weren't his size to throw off investigators.

yep, I agree with you.

I wonder what is being discussed today at court, and how the jurors feel about the delay. I think if I were one of them, I would be itching to get on with it and start deliberating. They have had to be silent too long with all this horrid stuff packed away in their thoughts. I imagine they will be glad to have the chance to get some of their thoughts out. I just hope they can all agree without a lot of discourse. Would be so sad and awful if there was a holdout for guilt.

 

[Female]

How about we move on from the shoes. Agree to disagree.

At the end of this it's not like the jury will say they find him not guilty because they think one shoe imprint was smaller than the other.

Pick your battles people, this obviously doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

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[MistyWaters]

How about we move on from the shoes. Agree to disagree.

At the end of this it's not like the jury will say they find him not guilty because they think one shoe imprint was smaller than the other.

Pick your battles people, this obviously doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

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Assuming we learn something from each and every case, in response to hblibrarylady's query, I'll give this one last go. After that I'm heeding your advice.

The difference is the source of the photo.

If a crime scene photo was, for example, part of discovery released by the state in a high profile case, sure we could debate it to pieces.

But that's not how this one came to our attention. The photos was released during sworn testimony from a prosecution witness, a police officer, who was tasked with testifying under oath regarding her specialized field in identifying shoe prints, in this case by enhancing that on various floor areas where the shoes had tracked blood.

So the difference is when we question the integrity of evidence presented by expert witness, we're also questioning the integrity of the witness because she did not testify that shoe prints came from shoes of various sizes. We've also must assume the defence is incompetent because they failed to conclude that multiple suspects might be involved.

So the difference is photos that have already been introduced as evidence by sworn testimony and photos being shared that were obtained from other sources.

 

[Hatfield]

One thing from yesterday that I found surprising was when the Crown said DG did not use the barbells as a weapon. Up till yesterday I thought maybe AL had clubbed him in the leg with one of them and thought maybe DG took control of it and started to use it as a weapon.

Since there was evidence of teeth being found it just seemed to fit better with being hit with a barbell rather than the small leather wrapped billy club that was found as part of DG possessions.

I tried to find crime scene photos where the location of the barbells are shown and had trouble finding any.

 

[Hatfield]

There was a great observation made by someone yesterday. Sorry I cant find who to give credit to.

Paraphrasing.
They mentioned how we found out why the defense was so quiet during the trial.

Since the defense did not have much to go against the Prosecution they kept it all off the table to prevent the prosecution from any rebuttal questioning. By putting their entire defense into their closing remarks they were able to throw out a lot of things and the Prosecution was not able to respond to it.

Glad the judge will be instructing and reminding the jurors that closing arguments are not evidence.

 

[olivebpa1]

One thing from yesterday that I found surprising was when the Crown said DG did not use the barbells as a weapon. Up till yesterday I thought maybe AL had clubbed him in the leg with one of them and thought maybe DG took control of it and started to use it as a weapon.

Since there was evidence of teeth being found it just seemed to fit better with being hit with a barbell rather than the small leather wrapped billy club that was found as part of DG possessions.

I tried to find crime scene photos where the location of the barbells are shown and had trouble finding any.

Here is a link to a tweet that has a picture of the barbells.
[video=twitter;829043459617017856]https://twitter.com/CBCBryan/status/829043459617017856[/video]

I think Alvin hit Garland in the knee with the barbell. A billy club could definitely knock teeth out. So could being hit with a hand or a foot.

 

[Hatfield]

Here is a link to a tweet that has a picture of the barbells.
[video=twitter;829043459617017856]https://twitter.com/CBCBryan/status/829043459617017856[/video]

I think Alvin hit Garland in the knee with the barbell. A billy club could definitely knock teeth out. So could being hit with a hand or a foot.

Good point. I had thought it was just the bar they were talking about. Not one with the weights attached to the ends like that. I have a set that has a bar that can slide out. I didnt realize these were attached.

Yea I seriously doubt DG carried one of those things around from room to room.

 

[Deleted member 192280]

Was there blood on the barbell, or just DNA? If just the DNA of the owner, why is it not normal since the owner could have used it?

 

[olivebpa1]

Was there blood on the barbell, or just DNA? If just the DNA of the owner, why is it not normal since the owner could have used it?

Blood. They know dna from the victims is going to be all over the place in their own home. The blood swabs were all tested for dna and came back positive.

 

[MistyWaters]

Here is a link to a tweet that has a picture of the barbells.
[video=twitter;829043459617017856]https://twitter.com/CBCBryan/status/829043459617017856[/video]

I think Alvin hit Garland in the knee with the barbell. A billy club could definitely knock teeth out. So could being hit with a hand or a foot.

I hope I'm recalling this correctly, it would have came with a graphic warning .....was that also the location where a low level blood spatter indicated Alvin had been attacked while he was already quite close to the ground. And that attack may have been provoked by Alvin hitting Garland in the knees with the barbells, in a futile, last ditch effort to defend himself and his family.

 

[olivebpa1]

I hope I'm recalling this correctly, it would have came with a graphic warning .....was that also the location where a low level blood spatter indicated Alvin had been attacked while he was already quite close to the ground. And that attack may have been provoked by Alvin hitting Garland in the knees with the barbells, in a futile, last ditch effort to defend himself and his family.

That attack was inside the house on the landing leading out to the garage. So a good chance alvin grabbed the barbell while laying there, hit him and then DG knocked him out again. DG must have brought the bar bells into the garage to "hide" them. Is that a foot print near the bar bells?

 

[matou]

Was decapitation ever mentioned during the trial before the closing statement?

 

[Spellbound]

Was decapitation ever mentioned during the trial before the closing statement?

Not that I recall .... I was shocked to hear the possibility during closings.

 

[kdgdid]

Just in regards to material found on the hard drive, there was either videos or still pictures of decapitated individuals.

Was decapitation ever mentioned during the trial before the closing statement?

 

[Hatfield]

Was decapitation ever mentioned during the trial before the closing statement?

JMO
I dont believe so because many of us were surprised to hear about that during closing statements.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

Someone was in court Monday morning... I can't remember who but I thought we were getting a report 😊😊😊😊

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[Wilkco]

JMO
I dont believe so because many of us were surprised to hear about that during closing statements.

The Jury saw the aerial photos showing the bodies so they must have already seen this.

 

[Kamille]

Here is a link to a tweet that has a picture of the barbells.
[video=twitter;829043459617017856]https://twitter.com/CBCBryan/status/829043459617017856[/video]

I think Alvin hit Garland in the knee with the barbell. A billy club could definitely knock teeth out. So could being hit with a hand or a foot.

I think those barbells are very close to a bloody footprint and that DG's shoe, with KL's blood on it, touched one of those barbells while he was doing something in the garage. I do not think those barbells were ever moved from their original location or used to hit anyone during this crime and I do not think either KL or AL were ever in the garage during the course of this attack. Weren't they dragged out a side door and taken to the driveway?

I wonder what DG was doing in the garage? Looking for something to cover the back of the pick up truck with? Or to put the victims in to minimize the blood evidence in the back of his truck? Since the Liknes' were moving, what might they have had in the garage that may have been used? Would JO have known what might have been missing from the garage? Did they have anything packed into a large box or crate? It sure looks like something large and square in the back of that truck in the pictures. I also find it hard to believe with all his research that DG would bring a white tarp to cover what was supposed to have been two restrained adults.

I also don't think that anyone had to hit DG in the knee for him to have gotten that injury. Considering what he did, hauling two large adults around, in and out of the back of the truck and using sharp weapons I'm surprised he didn't have many more injuries than he did.

MOO

 

[olivebpa1]

I think those barbells are very close to a bloody footprint and that DG's shoe, with KL's blood on it, touched one of those barbells while he was doing something in the garage. I do not think those barbells were ever moved from their original location or used to hit anyone during this crime and I do not think either KL or AL were ever in the garage during the course of this attack. Weren't they dragged out a side door and taken to the driveway?

I wonder what DG was doing in the garage? Looking for something to cover the back of the pick up truck with? Or to put the victims in to minimize the blood evidence in the back of his truck? Since the Liknes' were moving, what might they have had in the garage that may have been used? Would JO have known what might have been missing from the garage? Did they have anything packed into a large box or crate? It sure looks like something large and square in the back of that truck in the pictures. I also find it hard to believe with all his research that DG would bring a white tarp to cover what was supposed to have been two restrained adults.

I also don't think that anyone had to hit DG in the knee for him to have gotten that injury. Considering what he did, hauling two large adults around, in and out of the back of the truck and using sharp weapons I'm surprised he didn't have many more injuries than he did.

MOO

It is very possible the bar bells were always in the garage and he just transfered blood to them. But good question. If he wadn't hiding the bar bells why was he in the garage. It wasn't well thought out because he ended up leaving bloody shoe prints.