Still Missing Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 *Guilty* *Appeal* #29

[MistyWaters]

No we do not but we can apply it to all prisoners.. not just the one that are celebrity cases.

Yes, exactly. There should be no double standard.

I could care less about Garland but where it matters to me is the vicious bullies who inflict vigilante justice in prison, once released, just continue to be violent offenders on the streets. Obviously they learn nothing in jail if that sort of behaviour is condoned.

It's also possible their violent tendencies continue to grow into a Garland-type of tomorrow....

The general public yelling for beatings on the internet, of people they don't even personally know, at a time of no tolerance to bullying is rather bizarre. No wonder our young people are sometimes confused.

 

[Georgeo]

Sure it happens, it happened to Garland. However when it happens it's illegal.

Surely we don't encourage illegal activity?

Adding - if you google, you'll notice there is presently a Class Action lawsuit filed against the Province of Ontario by prisoners.

Maybe if prisoners had not broken the law, they wouldn't be in prison, to be beaten up, and the nerve of them suing the prison!!!

 

[Georgeo]

One person expressing an opinion about love and forgiveness isn't considered bullying. It differs from many people's opinions. It's not something to be scared of unless you want to live in a bubble.

I'm not a believer in false positives and forgiveness. However, for those who think DG should be beaten, where do the chain of beatings end then? What if one member of DG's family feels you deserve a beating for encouraging his beating? Then, what if a member of your family thinks DG got a righteous beating, and you got an unfair beating, so that DG family member deserves a beating for beating you? And so on.

This is is being taken way too far. Prison violence is a fact of prison life. DG is hated, in and out of prison. Bullying happens everywhere, in prison and the outside world. Just because my sympathies are not with DG does not mean I am for perpetuating prison violence, nor encouraging it. I stated that I don't feel sorry for him, period. I feel for the victims and the horrific murders.

 

[MistyWaters]

Maybe if prisoners had not broken the law, they wouldn't be in prison, to be beaten up, and the nerve of them suing the prison!!!

Well if we were to oppose legal recourse, then one option might be to tackle the Canadian Human Rights Act. However the argument that Canadian prisoners are not human during their incarceration likely wouldn't go very far.

 

[DarkSkink]

This is is being taken way too far. Prison violence is a fact of prison life. DG is hated, in and out of prison. Bullying happens everywhere, in prison and the outside world. Just because my sympathies are not with DG does not mean I am for perpetuating prison violence, nor encouraging it. I stated that I don't feel sorry for him, period. I feel for the victims and the horrific murders.

Violence is also a fact of life outside of prison, so I'm not understanding the point.

DG would argue AL had it coming. You argue DG had it coming. It's different perspectives, but it's the exact same logic.

Someone likely feels you have it coming, if you cut them off in traffic, or you lost them some money, or you didn't do work they were counting on. If everyone felt the way you do about getting what's coming to them, you likely wouldn't survive long. No one would.

 

[naz]

That's an interesting point - the victim that was investigate in connection with Garland - wasn't there some irregularity with the victim's phone, as in cat and mouse?

Sorry Otto, he did not see your post. I'm not sure I know which victim you are referring to?

 

[Georgeo]

Violence is also a fact of life outside of prison, so I'm not understanding the point.

DG would argue AL had it coming. You argue DG had it coming. It's different perspectives, but it's the exact same logic.

Someone likely feels you have it coming, if you cut them off in traffic, or you lost them some money, or you didn't do work they were counting on. If everyone felt the way you do about getting what's coming to them, you likely wouldn't survive long. No one would.

Big difference - DG committed awful crimes, and most people wouldn't shed a tear if he gets beaten up in prison. Kind of that disgust most of us feel at his behaviour and the crimes he committed. Let's agree to disagree.

 

[DarkSkink]

Big difference - DG committed awful crimes, and most people wouldn't shed a tear if he gets beaten up in prison. Kind of that disgust most of us feel at his behaviour and the crimes he committed. Let's agree to disagree.

Oh I see... you get to decide what for laws are upheld, and what laws are okay to be broken based on your personal, made up moral values.

Hiding behind the protection of laws for yourself, while denying the same protection to others... and we are supposed to just trust your judgment which is which. I suspect you'll agree that most would disagree to that.

 

[Georgeo]

Oh I see... you get to decide what for laws are upheld, and what laws are okay to be broken based on your personal, made up moral values.

Hiding behind the protection of laws for yourself, while denying the same protection to others... and we are supposed to just trust your judgment which is which. I suspect you'll agree that most would disagree to that.

how awful of me to not worry 24/7 about the welfare of society's worst, pray for their safety in prison, and look forward to their re-entry into society..... I guess my priorities are different than yours. Have a nice day

 

[DarkSkink]

how awful of me to not worry 24/7 about the welfare of society's worst, pray for their safety in prison, and look forward to their re-entry into society..... I guess my priorities are different than yours. Have a nice day

No one is asking you to.

Some of us simply opined on how your personal version of the justice system would work in the real world.

In your world, some people might even think giving your opinion deserves a beating. Perhaps you'd prefer Saudi Arabia or North Korea?

 

[otto]

Sorry Otto, he did not see your post. I'm not sure I know which victim you are referring to?

At the time that Garland was arrested, police looked at one other victim whose body was found NW of the Airdrie property in a water ditch. She disappeared from Calgary, had a history of drug problems, and was trying to turn her life around. I don't remember all the details, but I believe there was something unusual that her family reported about her phone being charged for months after she disappeared.

This is the location where the body was found - although I'm going completely from memory and pulling up a map from 3 years ago.

 

[otto]

From an earlier thread ...

I wrote: I'm curious about what the remains of Helena Mihaljevic have in common with these three murder victims. I wonder if it's simply the location of the body, or the type of remains that were found. I wonder if any of the three victims were dismembered in the Parkhill house to make it easier to be removed from the scene.

I'm still curious about why Garland would make more than one trip to the house on the night of the murder. Did he forget something there? When you think about it, it's awfully stupid for someone to commit multiple murders and then return to the scene of the crime a couple of hours later. Was he returning something to the crime scene?

I wonder if police do not want the community searching for the victims because the victims may not be intact.

If Garland is responsible for the woman that went missing in 2006 and who was found a year later, then he most likely left these three victims in a similar location.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=55558&d=1406256013

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...algary-30-Jun-2014-10&p=10787606#post10787606

 

[otto]

"Two months after Mihaljevic’s remains were found in a field near Airdrie, people still call her cellphone number to hear the recorded voice mail message.

That Mihaljevic’s cellphone remains active months after her disappearance and death is just one more troubling aspect of the mystery surrounding her violent death.

Mihaljevic was a 31-year-old mother struggling with an addiction to crack cocaine when she disappeared in mid-2006."

https://jasonvanrassel.wordpress.com/unsolved/

"Police are trying to determine if the man accused in the triple murder of a missing Calgary family has connections to any other unsolved, violent crimes.
...

One of the cases being looked at is the death of Helena Mihaljevic. The 32-year-old was found dead in a rural area near Airdrie in 2007, nearly a year after she went missing"

http://globalnews.ca/news/1472714/p...as-garland-has-links-to-other-violent-crimes/

 

[otto]

Reading my post from July 24, 2014, I'm wondering why I suggested that Garland returned to the scene of the crime a couple of hours later. We didn't really know that until the trial, and I have no idea what led me to believe that. Was he already that transparent three weeks after committing the murders?

 

[naz]

"Two months after Mihaljevic’s remains were found in a field near Airdrie, people still call her cellphone number to hear the recorded voice mail message.

That Mihaljevic’s cellphone remains active months after her disappearance and death is just one more troubling aspect of the mystery surrounding her violent death.

Mihaljevic was a 31-year-old mother struggling with an addiction to crack cocaine when she disappeared in mid-2006."

https://jasonvanrassel.wordpress.com/unsolved/

"Police are trying to determine if the man accused in the triple murder of a missing Calgary family has connections to any other unsolved, violent crimes.
...

One of the cases being looked at is the death of Helena Mihaljevic. The 32-year-old was found dead in a rural area near Airdrie in 2007, nearly a year after she went missing"

http://globalnews.ca/news/1472714/p...as-garland-has-links-to-other-violent-crimes/

It is quite possible, the perp was playing unless there was some kind of remorse ?... Why would someone charge and use Helena's phone? Somehow I think if it was a drug related killing the gang members would not want to attract police attention to their activities..

Nearly a year after she went missing, does not offer too much hope of finding the perp. Her remains would not have left any trace of DNA or would it?

Does DG fit the mass murderer profile versus the SK profile? Would someone like him ever confess of other crimes?
He looked at the map for a full 2 minutes before changing the subject, apparently cool as a cucumber.. Yet when he was read his sentences by judge Gates, I think one of the reporter twitted that he turned red (cannot find tweet any longer)... Anger or shame?

 

[naz]

Reading my post from July 24, 2014, I'm wondering why I suggested that Garland returned to the scene of the crime a couple of hours later. We didn't really know that until the trial, and I have no idea what led me to believe that. Was he already that transparent three weeks after committing the murders?

Knowing what we know now.. Why do you think he returned? To see the family reaction if/when they had discovered their loved one gone?

 

[DarkSkink]

Reading my post from July 24, 2014, I'm wondering why I suggested that Garland returned to the scene of the crime a couple of hours later. We didn't really know that until the trial, and I have no idea what led me to believe that. Was he already that transparent three weeks after committing the murders?

I remember reading those early threads.

If I recall correctly, some other people speculated that because the photo of the truck was in daylight and the truck bed was empty, there might have been two trips involved.

 

[DarkSkink]

It is quite possible, the perp was playing unless there was some kind of remorse ?... Why would someone charge and use Helena's phone? Somehow I think if it was a drug related killing the gang members would not want to attract police attention to their activities..

Nearly a year after she went missing, does not offer too much hope of finding the perp. Her remains would not have left any trace of DNA or would it?

Does DG fit the mass murderer profile versus the SK profile? Would someone like him ever confess of other crimes?
He looked at the map for a full 2 minutes before changing the subject, apparently cool as a cucumber.. Yet when he was read his sentences by judge Gates, I think one of the reporter twitted that he turned red (cannot find tweet any longer)... Anger or shame?

The voice message doesn't mean the phone was active or charged. It is just as likely it was a pay as you go phone with minutes still left on it, therefore keeping the number active.

If it was a monthly bill, it's at the discretion of the phone company to keep the line active or disconnect it.

They even may have *not* disconnected it at the request of police.

 

[DarkSkink]

It is quite possible, the perp was playing unless there was some kind of remorse ?... Why would someone charge and use Helena's phone? Somehow I think if it was a drug related killing the gang members would not want to attract police attention to their activities..

Nearly a year after she went missing, does not offer too much hope of finding the perp. Her remains would not have left any trace of DNA or would it?

Does DG fit the mass murderer profile versus the SK profile? Would someone like him ever confess of other crimes?
He looked at the map for a full 2 minutes before changing the subject, apparently cool as a cucumber.. Yet when he was read his sentences by judge Gates, I think one of the reporter twitted that he turned red (cannot find tweet any longer)... Anger or shame?

Although we don't know the entire contents of the hard drive found, DG had to research killing without joy and emotion, and how to dispose of bodies before the Liknes murders. It hints he didn't have a lot of previous experience with such.

There was even a file folder called "Gore" with pictures of dismemberment. Given his research, it almost seems he was trying to desensitize himself leading up to the murders. Again, it is a sign of a lack of experience.

The crime scene also suggests he had no idea how much blood would be produced from the wounds he planned on inflicting, or had much experience with debilitating other people.

The reactions you mentioned suggest he is a human with feelings. Smug and happy when those he feels 'had it coming to them' can't be found and that he might get away with murder, and filled with negative emotion at the realization the rest of his life is essentially over.

He may have killed previously, and perhaps police are sitting on some information found on the hard drive, but the little we do know suggests DG was in over his head rather than a seasoned killer.

 

[DarkSkink]

Knowing what we know now.. Why do you think he returned? To see the family reaction if/when they had discovered their loved one gone?

That would be risky, since everyone in the family essentially knew who he was and the history. If the victims were actually alive at the farm, it would also have been a massive risk to leave them there to escape.

He also didn't linger there for hours waiting for someone to show up and then leave after JO arrived.

It has been speculated previously that he went back to try and clean up, or had left something incriminating behind.