Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #6

[puppyraiser]

Excellent! Thank you. Yes one immediately assumes the presence of blood and I have no doubt there was blood. LE, however, have been extremely careful about what they specify and I don't believe they have ever said "blood" just "evidence". Of course certain reporters add words like "grisly" ....... Which, of course leads us to picture a bloody crime scene. LE would be doing these poor people a disservice if they were too specific.

I don't believe I ever said that LE said there was blood. In the same breath though, based on all the articles and news conferences, it really doesn't take much to come to the conclusion based on everything LE has said, that evidence collected contained DNA and that they were using that evidence to determine who was injured.
The main point of my original post was simply to ask what the reason would be for LE to not release who might have been in medical distress.

 

[Red Viewfinder]

What is that blue "pond" (and the blueish area nearby)? Very unnatural. Is it some kind of chemical storage of Garland or what? (sorry if this sounds ignorant)

I think that is just algae floating on the surface of the dug out. The recent high temperatures can cause algae blooms that can look kind of unnatural, almost like Drano.

 

[Cherchri]

The description of the scene infers, to me at least, that's there is more than some flipped furniture, broken items and possible drag marks of something along the driveway or sidewalk. LE used the term violent struggle and the reporter added the term grisly scene, without ever retracting that statement.
Also in that article it states "He adds that they are now working to determine who was victimized."

How can they determine who was victimized if there wasn't some type of DNA (blood) present?

Thank you. I get all that. Just wanting to point out that they have never used the word blood. It would be remiss of them to do so until all forensic testing is complete and several other ducks in a row.

 

[puppyraiser]

Thank you. I get all that. Just wanting to point out that they have never used the word blood. It would be remiss of them to do so until all forensic testing is complete and several other ducks in a row.

See link in post #838.

 

[GrumpyOldFellow]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/11/douglas-garland-gets-out-on-750-bail/

What is that blue "pond" (and the blueish area nearby)? Very unnatural. Is it some kind of chemical storage of Garland or what? (sorry if this sounds ignorant)

The rectangular shape just appears to be a dugout and the area beside is a slough that wouldn't always have water.

I believe the red square on this google map image indicates the approximate location of the photo, which is just north of the Garland property near the other search areas. The photo is taken from the NE, so is rotated from the google map.

 

[deugirtni]

I think you are right from what I can see Watson, the DG truck does look like the newer rounded version ;/ Man, I *really* hope LE haven't set their sights on trying to make him match, rather than continuing to look for what really makes sense in this case. If they are focusing in error on something they want so bad to make fit, they could be missing things that are important to catch NOW.
PS, re the bumper in the July4 pic being white, are you sure it isn't 'chrome'? Can anyone see the rims on both vehicles? Wow, please tell me that just because someone has a green truck, even if it isn't the correct model, they aren't going to be held and searched for days?? His proximity and his story (DG) may have been just too good to be true?? ("If it sounds like it's too good to be true, it probably is"??)
The more I am hearing about these bankruptcies, particularly the corporate one, and just days before the 'sale', and the potential vendors out there who may have lost bigtime.. and considering that even if there WAS bad blood between DG and AL from years ago due to a business/employment thing, why now? And if DG's folks are so elderly, and they have such a fantastic property that he will undoubtedly inherit at least a portion of some day.. blah!

View attachment 54701
View attachment 54702

I took a screen capture from the Global News feed of what they stated as DG green Truck and compared it to the truck Released on July 4

Twoo things stick out to me

1. The truck siezed from DG has what appears to be an extended trailer hitch where the July 4 picture does not
2. The July 4 truck looks like a single cab late 80 pick up, where DG truck looks more like a 90s style with what could be a extended cab type
3. the colour of the bumper in the July 4 pic is white, all beit hard to tellfor sure the bumper on DG truck is dark in colour.

this is just my opinion, I will see if i can enhance both images and determine through my own investigation of the vehicles through the pictures or if i can locate better pics to go by

 

[Cherchri]

Blood was specifically mentioned in the newspaper article at:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...as-criminal-past-new-charge-1.2698107?cmp=rss

"Investigators estimate between 200 and 300 people went through the home over the course of the weekend but they are trying to get an idea of what was purchased and what remains in the home.

"They say there was no sign of forced entry into the home but that blood found inside confirms that a violent incident did take place there.

Police could not say who the blood belonged to, only that whoever it was from would have been "in medical distress"."

Thank you. I think I stand corrected although Meghan Grant does not quote any LE spokesperson directly. So it could have been her interpretation. I would, I hasten to add, interpret the same thing. My point really is that LE have been especially careful not to get into graphic detail which is the best stance to take

 

[Sillybilly]

That is the problem with reporting - lots of contradictions made by press.

It was $750. CASH. I wonder where Garland found even that amount? If he has to have access to a land line, then I can't see him staying at shelters, unless special arrangements have been made just for him. As I said, these places are not open 24/7. They line up at nite to sign up for a bed, and are kicked out in the a.m. No frills - just a mat on the floor.
So - there would not be a regular access to a landline phone.

Therefore something tells me that he would of had to be put up in a hotel/motel or some other type of housing - and not shelters. He would need transportation to his doctor's office and the courts - so.......in order to meet this criteria as set out in the courts - he is probably being relatively well cared for - somewhere.

The tweet we saw wrt the landline indicated he must provide a land line phone # if available to his supervisor. I think pretty much any form of transitional housing would have a land line he could provide (not like they have hundreds of residents under bail conditions resulting in the phones ringing off the hook).

 

[Sillybilly]

Newbie posting for the first time. Hello!

I've been lurking and reading for quite some time and I think that sometimes we are assuming things that just may not be....

To be clear, LE is NOT going to divulge what evidence they actually have and in my opinion they do have some evidence. They would not be spending the time and effort tearing apart DG's acreage if they didn't have SOMETHING. It may not be enough to charge anyone with but it's a start. IMHO LE needs to be absolutely sure that they have crossed all the t's and dotted all the i's before they move in for the "kill".

LE released the CCTV shot of the truck for help. Let's not forget that they probably have more footage of the truck and who's to say they don't see that truck parked right in the driveway. They might have seen several things that we have not been made privy to and we won't be made privy to. There have been many a case where you hear absolutely nothing and everything LE is doing makes no sense and then boom! it all comes together.

I believe that the truck in the video is the truck at the farm. If it wasn't...they would still be looking for a truck and THAT we would know about. I believe they have the truck they seek.

This appears extremely complicated and when there are tons of players, companies, bankruptcies, family members, grudges, drug dealers, etc., everything becomes convoluted and it becomes a huge puzzle that is going to take time to decipher.

The problem is that 3 people are missing and time is moving on and it makes everything so much more urgent.

LE knows stuff and they know stuff about their POI. It will all come together but it's going to take some time.

Hi Tealgrove and Welcome to WS !!

Very good post

 

[deugirtni]

Thank you for grabbing those 2 photos Watson! I cropped the 2 pics, blew them up a bit, tried to enhance the color/brightness and put them together.. do these really look like same model??

View attachment 54701
View attachment 54702

I took a screen capture from the Global News feed of what they stated as DG green Truck and compared it to the truck Released on July 4

Twoo things stick out to me

1. The truck siezed from DG has what appears to be an extended trailer hitch where the July 4 picture does not
2. The July 4 truck looks like a single cab late 80 pick up, where DG truck looks more like a 90s style with what could be a extended cab type
3. the colour of the bumper in the July 4 pic is white, all beit hard to tellfor sure the bumper on DG truck is dark in colour.

this is just my opinion, I will see if i can enhance both images and determine through my own investigation of the vehicles through the pictures or if i can locate better pics to go by

 

[Sillybilly]

See link in post #838.

Yes, but it's not a direct quote from LE .. it could be reporter interpretation.

ETA: Sorry puppyraiser .. hadn't seen your post yet, but I agree with it

 

[deugirtni]

I wondered same thing.

Looking at those two pictures, doesn't the one caught on CCTV look like it has a longer bed?

 

[supernovaNic]

Thank you for grabbing those 2 photos Watson! I cropped the 2 pics, blew them up a bit, tried to enhance the color/brightness and put them together.. do these really look like same model??
View attachment 54739

It is believed the truck in the aerial view photo is the neighbor's truck and not involved in this case. It is not DG's truck. Apparently, his truck was already seized BEFORE media even knew LE was at the property. Just FYI.

 

[Sillybilly]

Thank you for grabbing those 2 photos Watson! I cropped the 2 pics, blew them up a bit, tried to enhance the color/brightness and put them together.. do these really look like same model??

<snip for space>

It's been determined and posted a couple of times that the second photo is of the neighbouring farm NOT the Garland farm. DG's truck was taken from the Garland farm Friday evening, July 4 .. media pics didn't even start at the farm until Saturday, July 5.

 

[Cherchri]

Newbie posting for the first time. Hello!

I've been lurking and reading for quite some time and I think that sometimes we are assuming things that just may not be....

To be clear, LE is NOT going to divulge what evidence they actually have and in my opinion they do have some evidence. They would not be spending the time and effort tearing apart DG's acreage if they didn't have SOMETHING. It may not be enough to charge anyone with but it's a start. IMHO LE needs to be absolutely sure that they have crossed all the t's and dotted all the i's before they move in for the "kill".

LE released the CCTV shot of the truck for help. Let's not forget that they probably have more footage of the truck and who's to say they don't see that truck parked right in the driveway. They might have seen several things that we have not been made privy to and we won't be made privy to. There have been many a case where you hear absolutely nothing and everything LE is doing makes no sense and then boom! it all comes together.

I believe that the truck in the video is the truck at the farm. If it wasn't...they would still be looking for a truck and THAT we would know about. I believe they have the truck they seek.

This appears extremely complicated and when there are tons of players, companies, bankruptcies, family members, grudges, drug dealers, etc., everything becomes convoluted and it becomes a huge puzzle that is going to take time to decipher.

The problem is that 3 people are missing and time is moving on and it makes everything so much more urgent.

LE knows stuff and they know stuff about their POI. It will all come together but it's going to take some time.

Welcome and really good post. Your second paragraph - my sentiments exactly.

 

[supernovaNic]

BBM

This newscast *Global July 7th* shows the parked truck apparently not the truck in question...a truck parked at the neighbours. It's a vid shot from either a plane or helicopter...news media were swarming for those couple days.
http://globalnews.ca/video/1437939/global-national-mandarin-jul-7

That would be an example of irresponsible reporting. The truck in that video is a different truck at a different property (neighbour's property).

My first ever multiquote.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

What would be the purpose of LE not releasing whose blood was found at the home? I understand the need to keep a lot of information they have discovered to themselves but to what benefit is it regarding this single piece of information? Was the amount significant enough that potentially all three were in medical distress, or a single person? If the public is to be on the lookout for these potentially live victims, then wouldn't it make sense to let the public know which person(s) was/were injured and possibly who might still be in good enough condition in the evident the 'kidnapper' is transporting them someplace and has one or more disguised?

As much as I have a distaste for simplistic crime dramas, how many times have you watched one where the perp said something, and the tv cops go, "How would they know that? It wasn't released to the media." Reason #1: it can make or break a case in many different ways, and I whole heartedly support LE in erring on the side of caution to be able to catch and convict those responsible, rather that satisfy a public curiosity. Are you saying you wouldn't phone the police if you saw someone that resembled one of the three, in disguise or otherwise, because you didn't know who is in what condition? I would advise erring on the side of caution, like LE, and call it in.

 

[deugirtni]

Since the bail hearing today, and the new sketch of DG surfaced showing him with darker hair (?) it seems like users have done an about face.
Now the consensus seems to be that he was set up. What has changed here?
Is there a sympathy element that makes us feel sorry for him having no place to go, no one is his corner? Is it that he is appearing more feeble because of his question to the judge, re: staying at the farm? I'm curious.

For me, it is because after days and days of intense searching, they have found no evidence in the locations they have been looking, ie DG's truck taken in, AL's truck taken in, no mention of any physical evidence that DG had been present in the home, no evidence reported to suggest any of the 3 missing people were anywhere on the farm property.. if anything had been found at all on this man, I'm sure he would have increased his status to 'suspect', vs 'POI'. Now that someone kindly posted 2 pics of the trucks together, the trucks appear to not even match. It makes me think to other times in Canada's history, when LE have focused much to intensely on what they felt to be true, rather than letting the evidence lead them to the truth, and this scares me. I have no sympathy or other feelings for DG, I just want the missing to be found and the true perps to be arrested. I don't know anything about DG having been 'set up'. It just seems to me that given the luck LE had in finding a vehicle of interest, and that leading immediately to a POI, it is far fetched for them not to have yet found one smidgen of evidence to alter DG's status to suspect, and makes me wonder if they are barking at the wrong tree, and worse, missing other clues while still fresh, since so many resources are being spent on making this one fit.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I'm wondering the same thing - how is all the family treating him and I wonder if the family (especially PG) think he's involved or not.

Was DG's parents at the release today for DG? Are they supportive of him? Would they not have offered him shelter wherever they are staying?

 

[deugirtni]

I was curious about the extent of this search warrant. It seemed with the 'Millard/Bosma' case in Ontario that LE only had a small window of opportunity in which to find evidence, not an open ended 'forever' kind of thing. So why is this case seemingly different?

I really find it hard to believe that LE are pulling this farm apart based on a truck going by the property a few times and caught on CCTV...they have obviously much more evidence that would point them to DG I think but nothing that would stick without finding the victims...I really think they would not have been able to get such an extensive search warrant for this many days if it were just based on a similar truck being seen in the area. They have to have much more than we know in MO