Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #6

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Since the bail hearing today, and the new sketch of DG surfaced showing him with darker hair (?) it seems like users have done an about face.
Now the consensus seems to be that he was set up. What has changed here?
Is there a sympathy element that makes us feel sorry for him having no place to go, no one is his corner? Is it that he is appearing more feeble because of his question to the judge, re: staying at the farm? I'm curious.

It could be argued, the "about face" is the stark realization that civilized societies have the presumption of innocence, until proven guilty. Since he was released from custody and potentially guilty of nothing other than owning a green truck, perhaps those who have convicted this man in post after post, were finally forced to look in the mirror and now understand why we have that presumption.

 

[Carol]

"We can now confirm that a violent crime happened in that residence," said Calgary police Staff Sgt. Doug Andrus.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...home-1.2696527

BBM/UBM

Technically, you are correct. I guess I just assumed since 4 days after they sent in forensics, this article comes out. And they describe that someone could be in medical distress.

Cherchri -Now that I re-read earlier articles, they did not come out and say a violent crime took place until 7/4. I have been so skeptical about whether there was blood at the scene. I go back and forth. You are correct...LE says "No comment" to the questions as to whether there was blood at the scene. However, they never mention that they suspected a VIOLENT CRIME took place until 4 days after the forensics team had gathered evidence. The 3 went missing on 6/30. Then 4 days later, LE said they believed a violent crime took place in the residence and someone would be in medical distress.I have a pretty sneaking suspicion that they got confirmation on those forensics as BLOOD to indicate a violent crime /medical distress. One could assume that the forensics from the drag marks and within the home were confirmed as blood and those results took 4 days to come back. What evidence on the scene would point to a violent crime resulting in someone being in medical distress when you don't have bodies to examine? To me...it's blood.

I am beginning to talk myself into believing that there was blood at the scene. That is just my opinion, assumption, etc.

It is interesting to consider. If LE used ambiguous wording for several days, then switched to 'confirm there was a violent struggle', that can mean 2 (or more?) things:

a) LE wanted to withhold it for some reason
b) the evidence was subtle enough that it required forensic work to confirm

But if it was a giant bloody scene, police would have no reason to withhold that since the culprit would already know it was bloody. That suggests to me maybe marks or spots or prints that they wanted to test. But that doesn't completely explain it either, because subtle blood marks could a minor household accident, not a "violent incident".

 

[ztzt]

Re some people's speculation of the possibility of Garland helping the Likneses going into hiding: that seems highly unlikely to me. For one thing (among others), it's hard to imagine AL and KL would have DG helping them with such a secret while hiding it from their own family. (But of course what makes this most unlikely is the involvement of Nathan.)

 

[Carol]

Okay, the news releases keep stating that the RCMP are going door to door close to the acreage asking people to check properties and well sites. The missing were in a 12 hour window. Has anyone figured out the time frames the truck was seen? That would at least give us a radius of distance possibly traveled.

Some of us speculated the surveillance video frame grab was early morning based on faint shadows we thought we saw :smile:

However that might just have been the best shot LE had to release, and there were other appearances that were darker.

 

[Carol]

Re some people's speculation of the possibility of Garland helping the Likneses going into hiding: that seems highly unlikely to me. For one thing (among others), it's hard to imagine AL and KL would have DG helping them with such a secret while hiding it from their own family. (But of course what makes this most unlikely is the involvement of Nathan.)

Yes. Remove the missing child from this mystery and I can easily imagine a scenario where people with business issues disappear on the eve of their lease ending.

But when I test this theory against some known events, it falters a bit. I keep thinking about what if LE were called to a house at 10 am on a Monday morning and someone said "my parents and son are missing". Normally LE is going to spend some time trying to assess if this is a custody issue, a family matter, an innocent trip to the park without leaving a note, etc.

But in this case however, it sounds like LE went full speed on misadventure instantly on checking the house. (We've heard by noon it was crawling with LE.) This hints to me (perhaps incorrectly) that LE saw or heard or believed something *right away* that told them this wasn't a case of the grandparents going on a trip.

 

[Cherchri]

And yet............at the first presser where JO and RO and JL (the L's son) spoke, the son JL (when asked point blank by a reporter to if it was true his parents either had properties in both Edmonton and Mexico..........and JL did very clearly state they had BOUGHT a home in Edmonton, that's where they'd be moving from Calgary to...........and that they'd spend some time in Mexico (he wasn't sure for how long) and then return back to Edmonton. I've said it before and I'll say it again..............there was something "off" with the way JL answered this question. It was like he was caught off guard with the question or wasn't sure how to answer it.

IMO we have no idea whether they really DID buy a property in Edmonton or elsewhere.

I still can't get out of my head, the day after they went missing, the media interviewing various neighbors and them giving different responses as to where KL said they'd be moving to..........1) Edmonton.....2) Mexico.....3) Northern AB I remember thinking at the time, sounds to me like people who either don't have a real plan or they don't want anyone to know where they're really moving to, for some reason.............all IMO.

I believe Texas was also mentioned by a neighbour

 

[Carol]

My opinion is it would be helpful.

[modsnip]


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Regarding psychics, it's not helpful because they are hoaxes, it would cause undue emotional pain and exploitation of the victims family and friends. Doing it "for free" isn't free, it's unjust advertising.

Regarding the sketch, it's a joke about the wildly colored background, not the POI.

 

[cathdawg]

The incident perhaps happened after 10pm ..and before sunrise, so I think there was about a 7 hr window. No neighbours on the driveway side of the L's home. We do not know how many times the new(taller) house with the CCTV saw the truck revisit the neighbourhood. We do know that a violent crime had been happened. We do not know to what extent nor will we until LE decides to disclose such.

I think LE is being very respectful to the O Family as R's father was RCMP.

Personally speaking and ignore me if you choose to, I think they were shot. NO just happened to be there at the wrong time. JMO

 

[TigerLilly]

Thank you for the link. I still don't see any mention of blood specifically. I think they have carefully avoided using the word.

Yes they have and when asked specifically LE wouldnt comment. LE has also said that they believe someone is medical distress and that a violent incident occured and they didnt leave voluntarily. What evidence other than blood would indicate that someone is hurt or in medical distress? If not blood spilled, then a weapon of some sort with blood on it? IMO they can only know someone is hurt if there was blood found..I cant think of anything else that would lead them to believe that.

 

[Cherchri]

It is interesting to consider. If LE used ambiguous wording for several days, then switched to 'confirm there was a violent struggle', that can mean 2 (or more?) things:

a) LE wanted to withhold it for some reason
b) the evidence was subtle enough that it required forensic work to confirm

But if it was a giant bloody scene, police would have no reason to withhold that since the culprit would already know it was bloody. That suggests to me maybe marks or spots or prints that they wanted to test. But that doesn't completely explain it either, because subtle blood marks could a minor household accident, not a "violent incident".

Aha! Good thinking Carol.

 

[Professor_Plum]

Re some people's speculation of the possibility of Garland helping the Likneses going into hiding: that seems highly unlikely to me. For one thing (among others), it's hard to imagine AL and KL would have DG helping them with such a secret while hiding it from their own family. (But of course what makes this most unlikely is the involvement of Nathan.)

Perhaps that is why there are things that are bizarre. What if AL & KL had made a plan to skip town with DGs help. And what if NO wasn't supposed to be there but now could identify DG? Maybe DG had to make a couple trips so he could get an identity for NO because after all he wasn't supposed to be there. Perhaps DG was waiting for JO to leave? I know it sounds far fetched but once again I am just looking at the most positive outcome. BUT none of that explains struggle and evidence? But I don't think we are all very clear on what the evidence is. Then again it is getting late and I just don't know anymore.

 

[sleuthinginca]

Thank you for grabbing those 2 photos Watson! I cropped the 2 pics, blew them up a bit, tried to enhance the color/brightness and put them together.. do these really look like same model??
View attachment 54739

Thanks for putting these together. I know most of you think I'm really crazy but I see these trucks very similar.

First...You have to realize there are two different angles here...and also the moving truck will look longer with a frame grab.

Many of you are seeing the neighbor truck as 4 door. Maybe thinking that there is a divide on the drivers window. If you look close...and imagine it is a 4 door truck....the driver would pretty much have his face up against the windshield to accommodate room in that cab for a back seat. Also that white spot/reflection on the drivers window that makes it look like it's a divide between 2 doors....is also in the moving truck picture...different angle. I'm not sure what it is but I am gonna take a guess and say it is a spotlight farmers use at night when trending crops. Or is could just be a side mirror.

I know the truck shapes seam off...but remember it is 2 different cameras at different angles.

Seeing the two trucks side by side really makes that white/chrome thing on the side window stand out but more than that is the tailgate.

I know it doesn't make sense to you guys but I really believe this to be the same truck. How? I have no idea.

 

[daniela40]

The incident perhaps happened after 10pm ..and before sunrise, so I think there was about a 7 hr window. No neighbours on the driveway side of the L's home. We do not know how many times the new(taller) house with the CCTV saw the truck revisit the neighbourhood. We do know that a violent crime had been happened. We do not know to what extent nor will we until LE decides to disclose such.

I think LE is being very respectful to the O Family as R's father was RCMP.

Personally speaking and ignore me if you choose to, I think they were shot. NO just happened to be there at the wrong time. JMO

If they were shot, has anyone in the neighbourhood reported having heard shots?



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[cathdawg]

L's owed money to whom we do not know the Characters involved, but I agree with poster who said it was a "hit".

 

[Lalalacasbah]

The incident perhaps happened after 10pm ..and before sunrise, so I think there was about a 7 hr window. No neighbours on the driveway side of the L's home. We do not know how many times the new(taller) house with the CCTV saw the truck revisit the neighbourhood. We do know that a violent crime had been happened. We do not know to what extent nor will we until LE decides to disclose such.

I think LE is being very respectful to the O Family as R's father was RCMP.

Personally speaking and ignore me if you choose to, I think they were shot. NO just happened to be there at the wrong time. JMO

If they were shot, wouldn't the neighbors heard the shot(s)? The houses are so close together…. but anything is possible

 

[TigerLilly]

Thank you for grabbing those 2 photos Watson! I cropped the 2 pics, blew them up a bit, tried to enhance the color/brightness and put them together.. do these really look like same model??
View attachment 54739

Not to me they dont! You did a great job on the pics

 

[cathdawg]

Silencer

Monday June 30/14 midnight July 1/14 ...Canada Day ...Fireworks in my City happens the eve before.

 

[ztzt]

DG being a POI (as opposed to Suspect), can the police take his computer to see his files and Internet activities? If yes, wonder if they did that.

 

[daniela40]

Silencer

OMG good point! Makes think even more that it was a professional hit!


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[swedie]

Thank you Otto. 25 years eh? OK so DG was charged with the drug offense 22 years ago at age 32. KL is 53 and DG is 54. KL and AL married when they were 28 and AL was 41. Just thinking out loud here, maybe DG and KL go way back. Could it be that they may have been in a romantic relationship and AL came along and swept KL off her feet so to speak and DG carried that resentment with him all these years, feeling like he was finally going to get even for AL stealing his love, and especially after all these years and maybe not being able to find another love? And then to add fuel to the fire, maybe AL was involved with DG and the illegal drug making and AL walked away scott free leaving DG holding the bag because everything was on DG's parents property and there was no evidence of AL's involvement. I know the connection of DG's sister being AL's DIL from his first marriage but some things do have strange twists kwim.

And of course this is JMO and only based on the assumption DG was involved in the disappearance of AL, KL and little Nathan. I believe there is a lot more to these folks background then what is being released to the MSM. Again if DG is involved, I get the feeling he felt shafted one too many times by AL, knew they were moving away and to another country retired and happy and that was maybe too much for him to take.

The other thing I had thought of, where has his son Allen Patti's partner been through all of this? Did Allen and AL have a falling out, father and son and did they confide in DG and that was like opening up an old wound which may have set DG off? Was father in son in a joint business adventure together? Just throwing some thoughts out there that's all. And of course JMO.