Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #8

[otto]

I don't know the date of the accident.. would it be possible it was during a break period or he had a semester off? He would have been 20 years old.

The boy whose identity was stolen by Garland died October 30, 1980, his sister died on October 29, 1980. The 30th is a Thursday. I don't think there were breaks during the semester in the 1980s.

 

[ztzt]

I have to agree with the others, sorry ztzt. I don't think for one minute he showed up to pick up furniture or otherwise. Don't forget Nathan's mom was there all day, and surely, something would have been mentioned in conversation if DG showed any interest in getting something from the estate sale, not to mention in conversation with others. My thought is that his arrival at the house was a total surprise to AL and KL. The element of not being expected puts them at a disadvantage. Why would he even risk them knowing he planned to stop by? Then there's room for the plan not to go according to plan, because someone can turn around and change the plan on him. He would want to be in total control.

I think he either entered through an open door, or the door was opened up to him by either AL or KL. One also wonders which door he accessed the house from - front or side? I don't believe he broke in. He had to be prepared with a story of some kind for his presence in either scenario - one for AL if he answered the door, or for KL if she answered the door. If he just walked in to an open house, he would have obviously said he found the door open, and continued his explanation for being there from that point. The likelihood of knowing the door might still be open wouldn't have been something he would have prepared for ahead of time, obviously. And, if he hadn't seen them in recent years, walking in to an open house unannounced might not be as plausible. He was probably prepared for either one of them to come and answer the door.

Regardless, he would have had to act very, very fast to render whoever answered first helpless, and incapicate them, then moving onto the second adult. Nathan was either still up, or perhaps fast asleep due to the excitement and days' activities. If Nathan was present or awoken, there's not much threat of what a 5-year-old could do, other than scream. I'm assuming things happened really fast. There had to be no time for anyone to pick up a landline or a cell phone to call for help. I believe DG moved quickly, but there was certainly what sounds like what probably was a fierce and violent struggle with at least one of the two adults.

I also strongly believe he probably entered with something in his hand, for example - like a pipe - to deliver a strong blow, which could have easily been behind his back. He had to have something on him/with him to further disadvantage AL and KL - I think we all agree on that. The more time anything takes, the more opportunity for something to go wrong. And, to go outside (into the truck to talk) would expose him - I don't think that happened either. It was probably enough that he had to remove the bodies. Whether he had made one of the adults help him with another body is plausible, but I suspect there were no moving bodies - maybe not all deceased yet, but certainly not in a position to pose any threat to DG.

Thanks for reading and the comments.

I strongly disagree with "surely, something would have been mentioned in conversation if DG showed any interest in getting something from the estate sale, not to mention in conversation with others." Furthermore, even if there were such conversations, they were not something that would be significant to whoever heard it. They may not have paid attention, forgot, or, if (in the more unlikely case IMO) did remember, told LE after DG became POI.

Reason I had DG asking AL to help carry furniture is that, as otto and maybe others also expressed, AL was too big for DG to carry from inside the house to loading onto the truck, so he may have lured him outside onto the truck to kill him.

I'm not sure how lapse their security was, so am not sure if a stranger could easily gain access to the entrance of the house.

OTOH, if he rang the door without advance notice/appointment, I'm not sure the L's would open the door for him--it must be very strange to see someone unexpected at your house at night, especially someone who they probably had no contact for a long time, so that would be alarming.

Did you read leeby's comments in #844, regarding the side walkway?

Your theory doesn't explain why Amber Alert said "Nathan may be in the company of his grandfather"; mine does. Also using the pickup truck.

 

[otto]

There was no mention of the driver of the other vehicle. Directly under that article was a report about another crash. I had to read it twice to notice the two accidents being reported on were not connected to each other.

ETA: ResearchQuest beat me to it

We know that Garland should have been at the University of Alberta on that day. The 14 year old driver and his 12 year old sister would have been close to home, which was Cardston. Prior to that, they lived in Stirling. Both are near the US border, which is about 6 hours (approx.) from Edmonton. I don't believe that Garland had anything to do with the accident.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Thanks for reading and the comments.

I strongly disagree with "surely, something would have been mentioned in conversation if DG showed any interest in getting something from the estate sale, not to mention in conversation with others." Furthermore, even if there were such conversations, they were not something that would be significant to whoever heard it. They may not have paid attention, forgot, or, if (in the more unlikely case IMO) did remember, told LE after DG became POI.

Reason I had DG asking AL to help carry furniture is that, as otto and maybe others also expressed, AL was too big for DG to carry from inside the house to loading onto the truck, so he may have lured him outside onto the truck to kill him.

I'm not sure how lapse their security was, so am not sure if a stranger could easily gain access to the entrance of the house.

OTOH, if he rang the door without advance notice/appointment, I'm not sure the L's would open the door for him--it must be very strange to see someone unexpected at your house at night, especially someone who they probably had no contact for a long time, so that would be alarming.

Did you read leeby's comments in #844, regarding the side walkway?

Your theory doesn't explain why Amber Alert said "Nathan may be in the company of his grandfather"; mine does. Also using the pickup truck.

What are you basing your theory about someone not being able to lift or drag 200 pounds? Have you ever tried it? It is not impossibly difficult.

The events of the night have not changed. What has changed, is the evidence collected, and the theories that are logically deduced from it. At that time, given the little they knew, LE may have thought that NO was in the company of the grandfather. That theory, if it existed, was obviously wrong. Why are you trying to make your theory fit one that was incorrect? Thankfully, when presented with evidence, logic, and reason, LE doesn't get tunnel vision with their theories, and changes them accordingly.

 

[Cattools]

Your theory doesn't explain why Amber Alert said "Nathan may be in the company of his grandfather"; mine does. Also using the pickup truck.

The wording of that Amber Alert is puzzling.

 

[otto]

What are you basing your theory about someone not being able to lift or drag 200 pounds? Have you ever tried it? It is not difficult.

The events of the night have not changed. What has changed, is the evidence collected, and the theories that are logically deducted from it. At that time, given the little they knew, LE may have thought that NO was in the company of the grandfather. That theory, if it existed, was obviously wrong. Why are you trying to make your theory fit one that was incorrect? Thankfully, when presented with evidence, logic, and reason, LE doesn't get tunnel vision with their theories, and changes them accordingly.

We're talking about lifting a six foot 200 pound man (dead weight) into the back of a truck ... does Garland look like he could do that?

 

[ztzt]

We're talking about lifting a six foot 200 pound man (dead weight) into the back of a truck ... does Garland look like he could do that?

You think it's the back of the truck? Wouldn't that be too visible and risky (even if covered)?

 

[Krystine]

We know that Garland should have been at the University of Alberta on that day .

I'm not so sure the the topic of relevant to the disappearance of the three, but will jump in for a second. It's not uncommon for a full time student to have a day with no classes every week.

 

[ztzt]

By the way, since AL is JO's stepfather, if JO's biological father (Nathan's biological grandfather) is still living (is he?), then there is a 3rd family that is directly affected by this tragedy.

 

[JLSChook]

We're talking about lifting a six foot 200 pound man (dead weight) into the back of a truck ... does Garland look like he could do that?

I am in my mid 40's, 5'7 and 120 lbs. My son, who is 6'1 and approx 195 lbs had a medical emergency and was completely unconscious. At the time, I had no way to call 911 and no way to alert anyone around that we needed help.

I dragged my son to my vehicle, put him in and drove him to the hospital. You would be surprised what adrenalin can do for people.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

We're talking about lifting a six foot 200 pound man (dead weight) into the back of a truck ... does Garland look like he could do that?

You're basing your opinion on a snippet of video. Have you actually tried it yourself?

Have a good look at the video of him getting into the Sherrif vehicle, and pay close attention to the forearm muscle.

 

[ztzt]

Is lowering one's head to avoid facing camera when arrested indication of guilt?

 

[JLSChook]

It's possible, though sorry to say (actually happy to say), but your son was alive (thank God)

Yes, thank God for that. My point is that an unconscious person has pretty much the same body weight as a recently deceased person.

Speaking of that, has it been established as a fact that AL was dead before leaving the home?

 

[Krystine]

We're talking about lifting a six foot 200 pound man (dead weight) into the back of a truck ... does Garland look like he could do that?

Although DG looks more fit and wiry than the first sketches made him out to be, I also wonder about that. I also wonder if one or more accomplises weren't dropped off at some point by the green truck to tie up loose ends in the house, while the truck circled the neighbourhood. The truck sitting on the parking pad out front in the middle of the night, with lights on could attract a lot of attention. I also wonder if it all happened in the very early morning hours, when even the light sleepers on the street would be guaranteed to be asleep- between 3-5 a.m.

 

[Krystine]

You're basing your opinion on a snippet of video. Have you actually tried it yourself?

Have a good look at the video of him getting into the Sherrif vehicle, and pay close attention to the forearm muscle.

It does appear he's been working out since the arrest pic of the 1990's, at the Calgary airport.

 

[ztzt]

Could someone link the report that a neighbor saw the L's house had the light on that Sunday night (was it all night, or part of the night?)?

 

[craftybatchy]

Is lowering one's head to avoid facing camera when arrested indication of guilt?

Or perhaps he was trying to avoid being temporarily blinded by the camera lighting, flashes, etc. Some people hate having their picture taken - guilty or innocent.

 

[daniela40]

Although DG looks more fit and wiry than the first sketches made him out to be, I also wonder about that. I also wonder if one or more accomplises weren't dropped off at some point by the green truck to tie up loose ends in the house, while the truck circled the neighbourhood. The truck sitting on the parking pad out front in the middle of the night, with lights on could attract a lot of attention. I also wonder if it all happened in the very early morning hours, when even the light sleepers on the street would be guaranteed to be asleep- between 3-5 a.m.

I think you are underestimating the power of adrenaline. *If* DG was able to carry a 6' 200 lb man, then adrenaline would enable him to do it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[swedie]

I actually just dragged my son who is 190 lbs. and 6'1" and it was not really difficult at all. I am 5'7" and 115 lbs. If DG had used a blanket to assist and placed a wide board propped up on his lowered tailgate, I don't think it would be that difficult for a man kwim. JMO

 

[ztzt]

Or perhaps he was trying to avoid being temporarily blinded by the camera lighting, flashes, etc. Some people hate having their picture taken - guilty or innocent.

Here in the 1999 arrest he covers his face with his jacket. Few cameras (I think).