Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #9

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
I find it interesting that at least some MSM are referring to the victims as 'presumed victims', as headlined here in The Toronto Star, "Son of presumed victim watches Douglas Garland’s court appearance" (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/07/16/douglas_garland_appears_in_court_on_three_murder_charges.html), and yet media and others are asking Garland what he did with the bodies, and do not seem to even notice that Garland is charged, but not convicted. It bothers me that people are so willing to presume guilt even with such little information to support this (no smoking gun, no reported DNA in the man's vehicle, no bodies, etc). IMHO, I can't stop picturing the 'real purps' celebrating their luck in having LE and MSM already hanging this DG person, and not even bothering to investigate other avenues.

I side with you on this view to a degree; I believe that DG had an accomplice and have links that work with my niggling hunch. However, since I'm still learning the do's and don'ts of websleuths, I am going to write my full post (with links) and send it to admin/mod for approval. I was thinking of sending it to a reporter from a national paper covering the story but think that websleuths has more affect for the greater good.

My hunch actually comes down to non forced entry to the home, and would DG be that welcome considering AL's & DG's background? Who else would be welcome? Then after rereading news reports, two different statements occurred (or had different meanings) and I went sleuthing in a different direction. I must go to bed as I work early in the morning and will send the mods my post by 8:00pm MTN Time, Sunday.
 
Okay, I finally found it. For some reason, couldn't reply with quote on that page, so here's the location:

Thread 8, page 43 - 07-17-2014 - 3:56 a.m., post 1063 - Poster: ztzt (inactive)

View attachment 55202

Damn, his arms *seem* to look quite hairless too! I made a comment awhile back how I wondered if he shaved his head to not leave hairs behind and was half joking when I said I wondered if there were pictures of his arms to see if they mysteriously hairless too. But it's really hard to tell by a photo, so who knows.
 
ITA. They have to have a solid reason such as trace evidence to lead them focusing on this one area. They have obviously ruled out other areas. The fact that they don't want public help, leads me to think they know exactly what they are looking for and where.

I totally agree. I have been wondering why they are so focused in that area, while driving home it was overwhelming just how much space there is in the area! and yet they are so focused in the G farm and the surrounding area. They must have evidence leading them to believe that they don't need to search much outside the immediate area. I really hope they find something soon. Even if they do will they release much info to the media or will we not find out much until it goes to trial?
 
I totally agree. I have been wondering why they are so focused in that area, while driving home it was overwhelming just how much space there is in the area! and yet they are so focused in the G farm and the surrounding area. They must have evidence leading them to believe that they don't need to search much outside the immediate area. I really hope they find something soon. Even if they do will they release much info to the media or will we not find out much until it goes to trial?

It would be my speculation that they only other information we will hear prior to trial is if they find the bodies.
 
I can see the Calgary Corporate Challenge logo at the bottom right .... all the companies that participate design their own shirts and there is a competition .... that's actually kind of interesting ....

Maybe the shirt was a gift from his neice/nephew.
I have a link but can't define if it is from the right Garland family. But it would give a different perspective of DG
 
Maybe the shirt was a gift from his neice/nephew.
I have a link but can't define if it is from the right Garland family. But it would give a different perspective of DG

I'm curious about what you mean about this…Do you mean PG's children?
 
Maybe the shirt was a gift from his neice/nephew.
I have a link but can't define if it is from the right Garland family. But it would give a different perspective of DG
Well his niece and nephews live in Edmonton and are young so I don't think they gave him a Calgary Corporate Challenge shirt from an oil company.
 
Corporate challenge... That is it for sure! And actually that shirt may be pretty old. I think I have seen it before... When I was in the tshirt industry.
 
I side with you on this view to a degree; I believe that DG had an accomplice and have links that work with my niggling hunch. However, since I'm still learning the do's and don'ts of websleuths, I am going to write my full post (with links) and send it to admin/mod for approval. I was thinking of sending it to a reporter from a national paper covering the story but think that websleuths has more affect for the greater good.

My hunch actually comes down to non forced entry to the home, and would DG be that welcome considering AL's & DG's background? Who else would be welcome? Then after rereading news reports, two different statements occurred (or had different meanings) and I went sleuthing in a different direction. I must go to bed as I work early in the morning and will send the mods my post by 8:00pm MTN Time, Sunday.
I can hardly wait!
 
I sure hope LE have checked DG's parents house very thoroughly in the basement for hidden bunkers, dugouts... DG wouldn't be the first to hid his abductees this way. Dead or alive. I.e. N. Kampusch. MOO.
 
Adderall is an amphetamine and is used for attention deficit. This is a good link explaining the differences. There have been many articles stating he was a "meth cook" and made LSD. I suspect, however he made amphetamine as opposed to meth amphetamine. Don't know for sure though...
<rsbm>

Some MSM articles reference meth/methamphetamines/meth lab, others say amphetamines. Either way, he was charged with drug trafficking so I don't think he was manufacturing something for his own personal use to treat ADD.

One of the ingredients used in the manufacture of meth/crystal meth (even crack and GHB) is sodium hydroxide aka lye.
 
I distinctly remember LE saying they were considering/investigating if DG was responsible for any other crimes in the past. This crime seems personal as DG knew the victims and they are even considered family. So why would LE think he has killed before? Maybe because his methods were sophisticated and well planned.

I was wondering if any other people were missing over the years and came to learn that there has been a presumed serial killer in Alberta that had been a mystery for some time now. I found it very intriguing that LE made that statement publicly and IMO they think he is the serial killer.

DG is a chemist and has been described as a genius, albeit more of a mad scientist type. This fact alone makes me think he would have chosen to use chemicals to his advantage and not just willy nilly murder people and throw the bodies in a lake (sorry).

Then I remember his company profile which says he deals with 'sodium' and strange coincidence that lye is a sodium compound. I wonder if he somehow might have gotten into the sodium trade just to provide a cover for ordering some for his own personal use....
 
I find it interesting that at least some MSM are referring to the victims as 'presumed victims', as headlined here in The Toronto Star, "Son of presumed victim watches Douglas Garland&#8217;s court appearance", and yet media and others are asking Garland what he did with the bodies, and do not seem to even notice that Garland is charged, but not convicted. It bothers me that people are so willing to presume guilt even with such little information to support this (no smoking gun, no reported DNA in the man's vehicle, no bodies, etc). IMHO, I can't stop picturing the 'real purps' celebrating their luck in having LE and MSM already hanging this DG person, and not even bothering to investigate other avenues.

Could you please list your references for your statement regarding the media speaking to Garland and for your statement that the police are "not even bothering to investigate other avenues"?

From the onset CPS spokesman, Kevin Brookwell, said 'there were signs that the homeowners "did not leave on their own volition." '
(http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/calgar...on-their-own-volition-1.1894229#ixzz37z3hsqh0)

Therefore, Nathan O'Brien, Kathryn Liknes, and Alvin Liknes were all, in fact, victims of crimes which could have included causing a person to be confined or imprisoned against their will to be included in the charges of kidnapping and forcible confinement. As well, S/Sgt. Doug Andrus stated &#8220;Based on what we&#8217;ve seen at the scene, we believe there was a violent incident at the residence." (http://globalnews.ca/news/1433136/p...ncident-occurred-inside-missing-familys-home/) Therefore, at least one of the three people was assaulted and was a victim of assault.

So, Nathan O'Brien, Kathryn Liknes, and Alvin Liknes are victims. Perhaps they are missing and presumed dead, but they are still victims nonetheless. It could also be said that the three people are presumed to be murder victims. Still victims.

JMO, but I think the word was inappropriately used by The Star. However, the use of the word doesn't affect how people view DG.

Alan Pearse of the Criminal Defence Lawyers Association has already protested that the "perp walk" into the Calgary Remand Centre made DG look guilty and was a form of public shaming. (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/07/18/douglas-garland_n_5601252.html) DG's lawyer, Kim Ross hadn&#8217;t read the letter and had no comment regarding either the letter or "the handling of his client." (http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/07/1...hief-complaining-of-douglas-garland-perp-walk)

About the questions. Let's not get too carried away. Your statement is incorrect when you say "the media and others". According to the footage, one reporter asked the questions. Your statement is also incorrect when you say DG was asked "what he did with the bodies". He wasn't. He was always referred to as Mr. Garland by the reporter. The questions, IMO, implied not so much that DG was a kidnapper or a murderer but that he was implicated in some way--as a witness, as an observer, as an accomplice, as someone who learned information after the fact. Lots of possibilities. I think if a reporter believed DG had been found guilty of murdering the three disappeared people, the questions would have been more targeted. For instance: Is is true you threw the knife in the Bow?

In fact of the actual eight questions, three asked DG is he'd like to make a statement, and a fourth is more specific asking if he had anything to say to Nathan's parents. Three other questions ask if he has knowledge of the whereabouts of the three disappeared people. The eighth question referred to working with the police, that is helping to find Nathan, Kathy, and Alvin. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...knes-1.2707268)

JMO, but one of the purposes of a perp walk, if you choose to call it that, is to allow people to see the subject's face who may have seen him in a context that could exonerate the subject, or perhaps lead to other investigative possibilities, or witnesses may call with information to strengthen the crown's case. It seems more likely that by hunching and hanging his head, a subject could be trying to hide his height, or distort his body's proportions, or make it more difficult for people to recognize his features. The way DG is slouching down the street, he seems slope shouldered and shorter than the plainclothes officers with him. IMO, a subject's posture does not necessarily reflect that the subject is feeling shame so much as the subject trying to disguise himself. However, and this is just my opinion, a 54 year old man who refuses to co-operate fully with a police and family investigation into the disappearance of his sister's five year old nephew should be ashamed of himself. Given the expression on DG's face, he was not shamed or worried, he was angry. (Again, that's JMO)

You say there is such little information to support a supposition of DG's guilt, but that does not mean that people will not speculate about DG's possible involvement nor should it mean that they are prevented from speculating because not all information has yet been made public. For instance, the charges that have been laid imply that evidence has been found of planning the crime--that's what is needed for first degree murder charges. As you've alluded to, not all evidence has been made public. In fact very little has been made public. The O'Brien/Liknes family have said very little to the public through the media. That does not mean that there is no evidence. It just means that all the evidence has not yet been revealed to the public, and may never be known publicly. The forensic and other units were at the Parkhill crime site for quite some time. According to various media accessibilities by CPS, evidence has been steadily going into the Crime Lab and returning from the Crime Lab to CPS since the beginning of the case. IMO, the CPS has been building it's case, piece by piece for the same length of time.

After the Pickton case, the fact that there are "no bodies" does not mean an act of murder can not be proven. Therefore, it is not enough for the criminal in question to simply dispose of the bodies of his victims and throw away his murder weapon/s. His defence can't really be, you can't find my gun or the bodies, so that proves I'm smarter than you. That being said, it is my understanding that DG has not confessed to any crimes regarding Nathan and his grandparents. So far the evidence appears to be circumstantial, but, because it has been so thorough, it may prove to be far more deadly than anything any perpetrator might ever have expected to face.
 
<rsbm>
One of the ingredients used in the manufacture of meth/crystal meth (even crack and GHB) is sodium hydroxide aka lye.

Oh my word! Now that I didn't know. My mind is racing again...... So many twists and turns with this enigma.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
148
Guests online
1,649
Total visitors
1,797

Forum statistics

Threads
600,668
Messages
18,111,812
Members
230,992
Latest member
Clue Keeper
Back
Top