CANADA Canada- Amanda Antoni, 31, found dead in her basement, considered suspicious but ruled an accidental fall down stairs, Calgary, 26/10/15, *Netflix*

[otto]

Hhhmm not sure all I can say on here that I read on public FB/comments, unsure if hubby is considered a POI... Sorry this is a long post. Mods, please snip if not allowed

- I saw a post from the current owner of the house who posted pics of what the stairs and basement look like now. She was approached by the Netflix show to film in the house. So husband does not currently live in the house. The current owner found it odd husband said he went down 4 steps and saw her as you can't actually see anything until you turn the corner on the steps 6 or 7 (IIRC), then you'd see where she was. However, he might've been traumatized and who counts steps anyways? Odd he said 4, I would've said I went down the stairs or some stairs... but maybe not in that state!

- His current FB profile shows motorcycles and him on one. Unsure if they are his, but one looks to be. I guess he made a public post for people to come out for his birthday back in January 2016 (less than 3 months) to Shanks Sports Grill. Nothing wrong with a birthday, maybe he was lonely. I don't think he's sophisticated enough to plan or be part of a murder plan.

- Good thought about neighbors or acquaintances who would know she's alone. Someone took this opportunity of the window of time (if murder)

- Unsure toxicology, not sure that's published or LE would release. Could be something of that nature, but I can't find any mention of anything like that really.

*Also to note: the G F M charity fundraiser page is still up! $940 raised.

There are three steps from the mainfloor to the stairwell landing. From there, her husband would turn 90 degrees to the right and see Amanda on the floor in the basement. The floor was covered with blood.

He did not have to go down 6-7 stairs to see the basement floor, the blood, and Amanda.

 

[Charlot123]

This doesn't make sense. I've known one or two people who genuinely suffer migraine and they are not driving and running errands. They are in a dark, quiet room not moving.

We know she had cannabis in her system. Was she looking for migraine medicine or to buy pot? If the latter, what are the chances that her suppliers would come forward? I think it's unlikely.

"Prior to her death, Antoni was suffering from migraines and it's believed she may have run several errands Friday and Saturday to local herbalists or pharmacies in search of treatment for the condition. She was driving a four-door, 2012, black Chevrolet Cruise."​

Calgary Police Service:

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Honestly, I doubt that anyone would resort to such cruelty over marijuana debt. It was 2015, after all. Plus, marijuana has been legalized in all of Canada in 2018, so I can’t imagine anyone being prosecuted for selling AA marijuana in 2015, even pre-legalization. Marijuana dealer could have safely admitted to selling her some, JMO. “Herbalists or pharmacies” sounds like an odd combination given the context, though, and is subject to different interpretations.

 

[otto]

Honestly, I doubt that anyone would resort to such cruelty over marijuana debt. It was 2015, after all. Plus, marijuana has been legalized in all of Canada in 2018, so I can’t imagine anyone being prosecuted for selling AA marijuana in 2015, even pre-legalization. Marijuana dealer could have safely admitted to selling her some, JMO. “Herbalists or pharmacies” sounds like an odd combination given the context, though, and is subject to different interpretations.

I don't think anyone would murder someone for not paying for personal use cannabis. I also doubt that anyone would run a tab for cannabis.

Regarding selling pot, it depends on how much someone was selling in 2015. If they were selling to a lot of different people, then they had a steady supply, which would result in charges and a conviction. I don't think anyone who was selling pot in 2015 was going to go to the police and admit it. They would assume that Amanda's death was unrelated and stay out of it.

I'm wondering whether she remained home alone that weekend due to migraine. I'm curious whether she was alone in the house. Did she have a guest? If someone was with her, and she was talking to her husband, and someone wasn't happy about the situation - who knows.

There's something off about how she hit the piggy bank, and the force of hitting it. Why didn't she put her arms up to catch her fall and protect her head? It would be instinctive to put her hands up to brace a fall.

 

[Charlot123]

I don't think anyone would murder someone for not paying for personal use cannabis. I also doubt that anyone would run a tab for cannabis.

Regarding selling pot, it depends on how much someone was selling in 2015. If they were selling to a lot of different people, then they had a steady supply, which would result in charges and a conviction. I don't think anyone who was selling pot in 2015 was going to go to the police and admit it. They would assume that Amanda's death was unrelated and stay out of it.

I'm wondering whether she remained home alone that weekend due to migraine. I'm curious whether she was alone in the house. Did she have a guest? If someone was with her, and she was talking to her husband, and someone wasn't happy about the situation - who knows.

There's something off about how she hit the piggy bank, and the force of hitting it. Why didn't she put her arms up to catch her fall and protect her head? It would be instinctive to put her hands up to brace a fall.

Having looked at her husband, I don’t believe he is involved. Even that he didn’t call, which is very sad, is probably stemming from his outlook on the world. To me, the question is, whether someone else, or an accident. Could in be a seizure? Then, she could have fallen, got up, in a confused post-ictal state, walked around, and could have had another one, or just stayed downstairs, still postictal, and succumbed to injuries. Her bruises could be result of convulsive activity then.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Her migraine might have been better on Saturday, but she was driving around running errands on Friday and Saturday when her migraine was allegedly so severe she couldn't travel. I have doubts about the severity of the migraine, which leads to doubts about the reason that she did not travel to Saskatchewan with her husband.

Good catch on the dates Otto! IIRC we saw in the doc that she told hubby Saturday (in that last call?) her migraine was better - so yes you nailed it that she was driving around Friday?

I have doubts too why she didn't go, perhaps if tensions or just didn't want to "be on" in a family situation which is understandable.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

There are three steps from the mainfloor to the stairwell landing. From there, her husband would turn 90 degrees to the right and see Amanda on the floor in the basement. The floor was covered with blood.

He did not have to go down 6-7 stairs to see the basement floor, the blood, and Amanda.

View attachment 525737

I see what you're saying and I'm not 100% so bear with me.... I believe what the current owner mentioned was Amanda was deeper in the room/basement (corner? by the wall? I can't recall) and not lying at the base of second set of stairs.

He would have to turn the corner and go down 2nd set to 6 or 7th step, peek around the corner to see her where she was positioned.

JMO, I don't want to split hairs as it could be an honest mistake and not a lie, as I mentioned.. who would count?? I find it odd he mentioned a number (4) though I guess! Instead of saying a couple or a few stairs. Could have been in a state and traumatized.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Honestly, I doubt that anyone would resort to such cruelty over marijuana debt. It was 2015, after all. Plus, marijuana has been legalized in all of Canada in 2018, so I can’t imagine anyone being prosecuted for selling AA marijuana in 2015, even pre-legalization. Marijuana dealer could have safely admitted to selling her some, JMO. “Herbalists or pharmacies” sounds like an odd combination given the context, though, and is subject to different interpretations.

She did attend (or seek out online or in some way) a spiritual retreat of some sort at some time. She seems free spirited and possibly into 'new age' or natural type healing and medicines? Maybe that's the herbalist reference? Health food type store with supplements and all natural medicines?

Some folks take St. John's Wort for depression or whatever instead of prescriptions/'big pharma' type medicine, etc. I imagine her autopsy/toxicology would mention and only LE know.

 

[otto]

I see what you're saying and I'm not 100% so bear with me.... I believe what the current owner mentioned was Amanda was deeper in the room/basement (corner? by the wall? I can't recall) and not lying at the base of second set of stairs.

He would have to turn the corner and go down 2nd set to 6 or 7th step, peek around the corner to see her where she was positioned.

JMO, I don't want to split hairs as it could be an honest mistake and not a lie, as I mentioned.. who would count?? I find it odd he mentioned a number (4) though I guess! Instead of saying a couple or a few stairs. Could have been in a state and traumatized.

Thank you! I see what you mean.

 

[otto]

This is her obituary.

She adopted 2 cats and one dog.

"Amanda was sensitive to other people’s feelings and had a passion for justice and doing what she felt was right. Not content to just talking about making things better for those in need, she was known to fill up back-packs with necessities and hand them out to the homeless people she came across in Calgary."

Amanda Kristy Lane Antoni - October 26th, 2015

ANTONI, Amanda Amanda Kristy Lane (Hogg) Antoni passed away suddenly in Calgary, Alberta on Monday, October 26, 2015 at the age of 31 years. Born in Calgary, AB on June 5, 1984, she was raised in Carstairs, AB and then went on to live in Calgary with her loving husband of six years, Lee Antoni...

www.myalternatives.ca

 

[otto]

<respectfully snipped>
My take:

Husband away and finally has a night to herself. Headache. Puts on the fancy panties. Gets really high. Talking on phone. Trips (maybe over the dog). Crashes into piggy bank with head and rolls down stairs. Badly injured. Disoriented. At times unconscious. Never able to gather herself enough to make it out of basement and dies of blood loss.

Phone was simply tossed at she lost balance. Tipped over chair in kitchen is unrelated to her death.

The "fancy panties" detail has been more or less ignored, but maybe there's something to it. Her husband certainly knows what she normally wore, and he made a point of mentioning that her underwear was different from what he was used to after 6 years of marriage - it was new and fancy. Why was she wearing fancy new underwear after two days of running errands (for migraine)?

I think people physically react differently to tripping versus pushed.

Tripping over the dog is a possibility. I've tripped over my (now deceased) large black dogs in the dark and there's always enough time to put out my arms to break the fall. That is, as soon as your foot hits the dog, you react to catch your balance.

Being pushed from behind is entirely different. You don't see it coming, and the first clue that something is wrong is force, surprise, and a delay in reacting to break the fall.

This is all opinion ... but Amanda's head crashing into the piggy bank 5 feet from edge of the dining room floor seems more like pushed than fell.

I'm curious whether she had a guest at the house at 7 P.M. on Saturday evening. I'm going to check the Netflix show again, but I'm guessing that her husband phoned her. If someone was with her, and if that person had one understanding of their friendship, and quickly/ irrationally developed a different understanding when Amanda spoke to her husband, a sudden, unexpected altercation could have resulted.

Knocked over chair, phone flying out of her hand, hard shove towards the stairs, another hard shove down the stairs, standing at the top of the stair while Amanda struggled at the bottom, Amanda standing at the bottom of the stairs facing the stairs but not going upstairs, dog and cats hiding (??) ... fleeing after seeing that she was confused and bleeding out.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I'm curious whether she had a guest at the house at 7 P.M. on Saturday evening. I'm going to check the Netflix show again, but I'm guessing that her husband phoned her. If someone was with her, and if that person had one understanding of their friendship, and quickly/ irrationally developed a different understanding when Amanda spoke to her husband, a sudden, unexpected altercation could have resulted.

Knocked over chair, phone flying out of her hand, hard shove towards the stairs, another hard shove down the stairs, standing at the top of the stair while Amanda struggled at the bottom, Amanda standing at the bottom of the stairs facing the stairs but not going upstairs, dog and cats hiding (??) ... fleeing after seeing that she was confused and bleeding out.

*RSBM*
To add to your theory:

1. Migraine: Not only was she driving around and texting, she was on her computer which can't be good for a migraine BUT now we likely know she did have a migraine if LE are saying the digital forensics show she was seeking a remedy. BUT I could pick this apart let's say hypothetically - maybe she was doing the search right before Lee was leaving or while he was there. LE do not state when the computer searches happened, while Lee was still home or after he left.

2. Invited an acquaintance over?: I wonder if she was a 'regular' at any of the businesses she visited and got friendly with any workers or staff there? So no digital trail if a random plan was made with someone she was chatting to IN PERSON knowing Lee would find messages on her phone or email. Maybe invited someone over to smoke a joint but was the wrong person who might've taken it the wrong way? Or maybe she did have a crush on someone she chatted to, invited over? I know I have regular staff I small talk with and I can see Amanda being very disarmed and disarming with those she meets. She had a huge heart and I'm sure was very friendly and a bleeding heart type who is open and wanting to help so many. Some people take that opportunity to take a woman alone for granted...

3. Another person waiting upstairs: Could have been an accidental homicide if things got physical and out of control. Person might've stayed upstairs and panicked and we have to remember it would have only been 20 minutes to wait there until she was 'quiet' then flee. Phone went dead at approx 7:06pm IIRC and time of death was by 7:30pm That's not a lot of time.

......

Police seek public's help to track final hours of Amanda Antoni​

Published Dec 01, 2015 • 2 minute read

“We know she was doing some research on her computer in regards to herbal remedies for her migraines,” said Andrus. He said there is nothing to indicate that Antoni may have sought illegal drugs.

Though her death is considered suspicious, police have yet to declare it a homicide. The office of the chief medical examiner has completed an autopsy but are waiting on results from a toxicology report, so the cause of Antoni’s death remains unclear.

Investigators want to talk to anyone who may have had contact with Antoni Friday (Oct. 23) or Saturday (Oct. 24), or saw any suspicious activity around her home Saturday evening.

Police seek public's help to track final hours of Amanda Antoni

Police have “more questions than answers” about the suspicious death of a Calgary woman in late October, and are hopeful new details about her final days may genera…

calgaryherald.com

 

[cenazoic]

Two strange things:

First, as a lifelong migraine sufferer, I don’t think people who don’t have them understand just how bad they are. It’s not just a ‘bad headache’ - they’re literally debilitating. Not only that, but once the migraine itself is gone, there’s some recovery time afterwards where you’re just absolutely physically drained. No one is driving around town, chatting on the phone, or putting on ‘fancy panties’ to entertain themselves or anyone else while they have one. So the migraine thing (as described) is sort of sus to me.

Second: a few years ago, my dog woke me up from where I’d fallen asleep watching TV (downstairs). I get up, assuming she needed to go out, and found my partner sitting in a huge pool of blood at the bottom of the stairs. In a daze, she’d smeared blood all over her bare arms and legs, her face was covered in it, hair matted with it.

(Of course, my immediate irrational thought was MURDER! Why the presumed attacker didn’t kill me first, being more immediately available and in plain sight on the first floor, remains a mystery.)

Long story shortish, she’d gotten up at some point and tripped down the stairs, almost tearing off an eyelid completely, which was the source of the shocking amount of blood. She was in the hospital a few days while they repaired the damage. In the meantime, I searched that stairwell with a fine-tooth comb, thinking there must be an exposed nailhead somewhere that she’d unluckily encountered on the way down. I’m telling you, not only did I not find a nail, I could not find any evidence at all of where the accident initially occurred. There was zero blood in the stairwell. (Okay, I didn’t bust out the luminol.) To this day it’s one of the most inexplicable things I’ve seen.

All that to say, I understand that very weird accidents can and do happen.

Still, I don’t understand why, whether pushed or not, all the stuff in the basement stairwell - on the walls, on the landing, on the ledge, the railing - nothing in Amanda’s stairwell looks disturbed. Just the broken bank, which despite meeting her forehead with some force, also appears to have otherwise been unmoving.

 

[otto]

Two strange things:

First, as a lifelong migraine sufferer, I don’t think people who don’t have them understand just how bad they are. It’s not just a ‘bad headache’ - they’re literally debilitating. Not only that, but once the migraine itself is gone, there’s some recovery time afterwards where you’re just absolutely physically drained. No one is driving around town, chatting on the phone, or putting on ‘fancy panties’ to entertain themselves or anyone else while they have one. So the migraine thing (as described) is sort of sus to me.

Second: a few years ago, my dog woke me up from where I’d fallen asleep watching TV (downstairs). I get up, assuming she needed to go out, and found my partner sitting in a huge pool of blood at the bottom of the stairs. In a daze, she’d smeared blood all over her bare arms and legs, her face was covered in it, hair matted with it.

(Of course, my immediate irrational thought was MURDER! Why the presumed attacker didn’t kill me first, being more immediately available and in plain sight on the first floor, remains a mystery.)

Long story shortish, she’d gotten up at some point and tripped down the stairs, almost tearing off an eyelid completely, which was the source of the shocking amount of blood. She was in the hospital a few days while they repaired the damage. In the meantime, I searched that stairwell with a fine-tooth comb, thinking there must be an exposed nailhead somewhere that she’d unluckily encountered on the way down. I’m telling you, not only did I not find a nail, I could not find any evidence at all of where the accident initially occurred. There was zero blood in the stairwell. (Okay, I didn’t bust out the luminol.) To this day it’s one of the most inexplicable things I’ve seen.

All that to say, I understand that very weird accidents can and do happen.

Still, I don’t understand why, whether pushed or not, all the stuff in the basement stairwell - on the walls, on the landing, on the ledge, the railing - nothing in Amanda’s stairwell looks disturbed. Just the broken bank, which despite meeting her forehead with some force, also appears to have otherwise been unmoving.

100% agree regarding migraine. I don't believe that she had a migraine and was driving and running errands. Impossible. It's possible with a low-grade headache, but not migraine.

If there was no serious migraine, why did she stay home - spending the first night away from her husband since they were married 6 years earlier. Why, on that night, was she wearing "fancy panties" that her husband had never seen?

The fact that everything on the landing is undisturbed, it gives the impression that she was standing at the top of the stairs, tipped over (or took a step forward without preparing to step down), kept her hands at her sides, crashed her head into the piggy bank on the ledge of the landing, then somersaulted down the stairs - leaving fragments of the piggy bank on the stairs.

One police officer wondered whether there was a second set of footprints in the blood, but someone smeared that blood to obscure evidence, then removed shoes and left.

 

[cenazoic]

it gives the impression that she was standing at the top of the stairs, tipped over (or took a step forward without preparing to step down), kept her hands at her sides, crashed her head into the piggy bank on the ledge of the landing, then somersaulted down the stairs - leaving fragments of the piggy bank on the stairs.

I assumed that our brain would react faster than our conscious mind upon missing a step, and her arms would fly up instantly to regain balance. Possibly it happened so fast that there was no time for that. (It occurs to me suddenly that’s an explanation for the lack of blood in the stairwell for my partner - happened so fast the blood didn’t start flowing til she was at the bottom.)

It’s the bulk of the bank still on the ledge that makes the least sense to me. I suppose if the bank is heavyish empty (and it does look like a thick ceramic piece), and if it had a lot of change in it could be ballasted that way. Do we know anything about the contents?

 

[otto]

I assumed that our brain would react faster than our conscious mind upon missing a step, and her arms would fly up instantly to regain balance. Possibly it happened so fast that there was no time for that. (It occurs to me suddenly that’s an explanation for the lack of blood in the stairwell for my partner - happened so fast the blood didn’t start flowing til she was at the bottom.)

It’s the bulk of the bank still on the ledge that makes the least sense to me. I suppose if the bank is heavyish empty (and it does look like a thick ceramic piece), and if it had a lot of change in it could be ballasted that way. Do we know anything about the contents?

If she was talking on the phone, tripped over the dog, and fell straight down the stairs, the phone would not be in the dining room. I would expect it to be on the landing - propelled forward at the same time as her body.

The location of the phone and her body give the impression that there were two separate incidents. First, the phone was disconnected in the dining room, then she fell or was pushed down the stairs.

We don't know what was in the piggy bank.

 

[otto]

When I first watched this episode of Unsolved Mysteries, I easily leaned into 'accident'. The more I think about it, I'm not so sure. We have to accept quite a few unusual facts for that to be true. Please add other irregularities to the list:

• Amanda experienced a severe migraine preventing her from traveling to Saskatchewan with her husband
• the migraine was not so severe that it prevented her from driving and running errands
• first night separate from husband in 6 years of marriage
• wearing 'fancy panties' that her husband had never seen, he indicated it was not her norm/style
• on phone with husband when dog yelped, phone disconnected, and Amanda took a header down the stairs
• phone is not near the stairs
• no evidence that Amanda broke her fall - head first into piggy bank that is 5 feet away from top of stairs
• nothing on landing disturbed
• stood in blood facing stairs but did not go up even one step
• no digital evidence of a new relationship

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Something I just thought of so posting ideas. What if something did go wrong with someone else there...a confrontation/altercation/rejection of someone or rejection of something sexual, that escalated and it was an accident that Amanda got cut to that extent and went down the stairs.

Maybe AA stood at bottom of the stairs staring up to the person, that person said just to wait there and try not to move as they would get help. But instead of doing that, panicked, didn't want to implicate themselves and just left maybe not realizing she'd succumb to her injuries.

Then hearing the news after that she actually died, realized how deep in they were and didn't say a word. MOO, throwing theories out there.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

When I first watched this episode of Unsolved Mysteries, I easily leaned into 'accident'. The more I think about it, I'm not so sure. We have to accept quite a few unusual facts for that to be true. Please add other irregularities to the list:

• Amanda experienced a severe migraine preventing her from traveling to Saskatchewan with her husband
• the migraine was not so severe that it prevented her from driving and running errands
• first night separate from husband in 6 years of marriage
• wearing 'fancy panties' that her husband had never seen, he indicated it was not her norm/style
• on phone with husband when dog yelped, phone disconnected, and Amanda took a header down the stairs
• phone is not near the stairs
• no evidence that Amanda broke her fall - head first into piggy bank that is 5 feet away from top of stairs
• nothing on landing disturbed
• stood in blood facing stairs but did not go up even one step
• no digital evidence of a new relationship

Good summary Otto, thanks! I can't think of anything to add at this time but might come to me later

 

[otto]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

The fact that police were unable to find evidence of another person in the house is not evidence that no one was there.

If true that the neighbour saw someone running behind the house, maybe he was in the house, but didn't touch anything. That would mean that someone deliberately attacked Amanda while she was talking to her husband on the phone.

Does anyone remember whether the husband reported anything unusual about the conversation before the phone disconnected? If it was a normal conversation, then it could have been a guest.

If there was a guest, with no digital connection, where would they have met? What do we know about Amanda (obituary).

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

The fact that police were unable to find evidence of another person in the house is not evidence that no one was there.

If true that the neighbour saw someone running behind the house, maybe he was in the house, but didn't touch anything. That would mean that someone deliberately attacked Amanda while she was talking to her husband on the phone.

Does anyone remember whether the husband reported anything unusual about the conversation before the phone disconnected? If it was a normal conversation, then it could have been a guest.

If there was a guest, with no digital connection, where would they have met? What do we know about Amanda (obituary).

We don't know if no other DNA in the basement (where they thought attack happened initially) or the house as a whole, not sure they detailed that info.

Good point, maybe only AA was touched and no other objects. I still think possible she was easily grabbed by back of the neck or hair and smashed into the piggy bank or weapon (piggy bank could have been an after thought/superficial wound).

Did LE say it was the piggy bank wound that killed her or a laceration from unknown object and only the debris from piggy bank was embedded on her? Two different things there. She did have lots of bruises on her from stairs or a person or being slammed around possibly.

I don't recall the convo when on phone with hubby.