CANADA Canada - Ariel Jeffrey Kouakou, 10, Montreal, 12 March 2018

[rosesfromangels]

I can't think of any good reason to let a bunch of strangers who are searching for someone traipse through a private yard and house. I doubt police would agree to that either. If there is evidence, the strangers will contaminate the scene.

I'm not sure how I got this communication so goofed up. I was *not* suggesting anyone but LE conduct a K9 search. I still think it would be a worthwhile exercise to bring in the dogs, and if they get a hit...to ask the property owners if they would permit LE and the dogs to enter.

While the speculation that the child is in the water is statistically most likely, he could also be in someone's basement.
You never know.

 

[Phei]

Has there been proof that he was a volunteer, where is the proof this person fell through the ice or are you basing yourself on something someone said on facebook ? For all we know the man or woman could have broken her ankle, couldnt move for awhile and needed an ambulance, where is the proof this person actually fell through the ice ?

 

[Phei]

Has there been proof that he was a volunteer, where is the proof this person fell through the ice or are you basing yourself on something someone said on facebook ? For all we know the man or woman could have broken her ankle, couldnt move for awhile and needed an ambulance, where is the proof this person actually fell through the ice ? Has there been a police statement, 911 call or even a news article about this incident?

 

[otto]

I'm not sure how I got this communication so goofed up. I was *not* suggesting anyone but LE conduct a K9 search. I still think it would be a worthwhile exercise to bring in the dogs, and if they get a hit...to ask the property owners if they would permit LE and the dogs to enter.

While the speculation that the child is in the water is statistically most likely, he could also be in someone's basement.
You never know.

I know - electronic communication is so very prone to misunderstandings! I'm wondering whether the witness lives at one of the houses in the area where Ariel was last seen. I do think police have done door to door searches of the houses that back onto the river if only to ask whether anyone had seen anything.

 

[otto]

Has there been proof that he was a volunteer, where is the proof this person fell through the ice or are you basing yourself on something someone said on facebook ? For all we know the man or woman could have broken her ankle, couldnt move for awhile and needed an ambulance, where is the proof this person actually fell through the ice ? Has there been a police statement, 911 call or even a news article about this incident?

Were you not following this story when social media lit up at about Ariel's coat being found, ambulances, and so on at the park in the area where people were searching for Ariel? First there was a coat, then there was a pair of jeans, then there was an adult on a stretcher going into an ambulance. I don't think coat and pants would be removed for an ankle injury.

I don't do Facebook or twitter, but I do read things that people bring to the discussion from those sources. I believe those social media venues were the source for the rumours.

 

[eucalyptuz]

There was a rescue performed on the ice of the Rivieres-des-prairies on the 18th of March, very close to the location where the searches for Ariel were taking place. There was chatter on the scanner feeds and that's what got the whole coat/body rumor mill going that evening.
There was a video reporting this rescue on Global news at this link but I think it has since been pulled:
https://globalnews.ca/video/4090845...rm-ice-rescue-on-frozen-riviere-des-prairies/
and here: https://montrealinformer.com/56120/...rm-ice-rescue-on-frozen-riviere-des-prairies/
It was never stated whether it was a volunteer, an official searcher or even a drill.
A Fire and Police Service videographer captured the action and posted it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpbRY6pPwME&t=831s

 

[eucalyptuz]

link to a Montreal Gazette story that mentions the ice rescue on the evening of the 18th of March. I suspect the reason it got pulled from various news outlets is because it was unrelated to Ariel and the searches:
http://montrealgazette.com/news/loc...aised-as-boxer-adonis-stevenson-donates-15000

A third call, which came in to police at 8:32 p.m., involved footprints heading from shore out to the river in the Ahuntsic-Cartierville district. Police contacted the fire department’s ice rescue team, said Luc Galarneau, chief of operations with the Montreal fire department, “and they found a man in psychological distress.”

 

[freudianslip]

There was a rescue performed on the ice of the Rivieres-des-prairies on the 18th of March, very close to the location where the searches for Ariel were taking place. There was chatter on the scanner feeds and that's what got the whole coat/body rumor mill going that evening.
There was a video reporting this rescue on Global news at this link but I think it has since been pulled:
https://globalnews.ca/video/4090845...rm-ice-rescue-on-frozen-riviere-des-prairies/
and here: https://montrealinformer.com/56120/...rm-ice-rescue-on-frozen-riviere-des-prairies/
It was never stated whether it was a volunteer, an official searcher or even a drill.
A Fire and Police Service videographer captured the action and posted it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpbRY6pPwME&t=831s

The description below the Youtube video mentions four crews linked by a rope running on the ice towards the victim, then ordering a spinal board to be brought in, before loading the victim on the sled to carry him back to shore.

This was at Parc de la Merci (Gouin/Salaberry)

 

[Phei]

The description below the Youtube video mentions four crews linked by a rope running on the ice towards the victim, then ordering a spinal board to be brought in, before loading the victim on the sled to carry him back to shore.

This was at Parc de la Merci (Gouin/Salaberry)

Thanks eucalyptuz, never was able to find any reliable source or video about this incident, no mention of the victim actually falling through the ice though? It mentions he was in psychological distress on the ice? "They received the call for a person on the ice and engaged a full ice rescue response."

 

[eucalyptuz]

Thanks eucalyptuz, never was able to find any reliable source or video about this incident, no mention of the victim actually falling through the ice though? It mentions he was in psychological distress on the ice? "They received the call for a person on the ice and engaged a full ice rescue response."

Yes, that does seem to contradict the descriptIon of the rescuers needing a back-board ...but maybe that is a strategic decision if a victim is frozen with fear or unwilling to be rescued and/or disturbed psychologically?
At the time I thought it could have been a volunteer searcher or perhaps a close relative who was traumatized over the whole process but it seems unrelated.

 

[Hazel]

‘We need to keep the story alive’:
Montrealers form human chain for Ariel Jeffrey Kouakou
April 7, 2018

Ariel Jeffrey Kouakou's father, Kouadiou Frédéric Kouakou, stands with others showing their support on Saturday, April 7, 2018.

Dozens of people gathered on Saturday in the area where 10-year-old Ariel Jeffrey Kouakou was last seen, to form a human chain to show his family that Montrealers are still standing with them.

To keep Ariel’s name in people’s hearts and minds, friends and family and even many who never met him joined hand-in-hand on Saturday along Gouin Ouest.

They marched, chanted and reinforced their support for the family.

“Ariel is somewhere,” said his father, Kouadiou Frédéric Kouakou. “It will take time, but Ariel will come back.”

https://globalnews.ca/news/4130219/...s-form-human-chain-for-ariel-jeffrey-kouakou/

 

[Hazel]

Off Topic

Remains of drowned boy found after [10] months of searching
September 26, 2011

"I thought they quit searching for my son and all this time they were still searching for my son," Flett told reporters who had gathered outside her home. "And I was really glad that they did."

https://www.ctvnews.ca/remains-of-drowned-boy-found-after-months-of-searching-1.702884

Canada - Kaden Young, 3, swept away in flood waters, Grand Valley, Ont, 21 Feb 2018
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...-in-flood-waters-Grand-Valley-Ont-21-Feb-2018


http://toronto.citynews.ca/video/20...-on-search-for-boy-swept-away-in-grand-river/

 

[casesensitive]

Now that we know that a volunteer searcher did not fall through the ice, do any locals feel that the ice close to the park shore could be thin enough to give way to a child? Has anyone seen a break in the ice close to the shore? I haven't seen any videos showing breaks in the ice close to shore but obviously the police feel this was feasible, and I want to trust their judgement. But this has been an extreme winter in Ontario and I suspect also in Quebec. Is there a possibility that the ice near the river banks was thicker than normal due to the weather conditions this year? If police saw an obvious break(s) in the ice along the banks of the park, where Ariel could have fallen in, wouldn't they have made this information public to support their theory that he fell through the ice into the water? Where is the proof of a hole in the ice?

Hazel has posted about breaks in the ice, and I have also seen photos online where there is an obvious hole when somebody falls through.

This is not a criminal investigation, therefore I expect LE to justify their theory of drowning. They have been quoted as saying their theory is solely based on the witness who saw Ariel in the park, and that they have no video of him leaving the park. I want to know that it was possible for Ariel to fall through the ice close to the bank and that they have proof that this was likely.

 

[Satchie]

Actually, I think they have video of him entering the park, but none of the video footage show him exiting.

I'm a little confused by your demand that police 'prove their theory'. My understanding is that we have police forces in order to keep us safe from crime. If there is evidence of a crime, it's the job of police to try to catch the criminals and collect evidence of the crime to prosecute them. They aren't in the business of proving accidents, or collecting evidence to prove accidents. I've never heard of something like that being done by a police force, ever.

In this case they have been diligent in looking and have found no evidence of a crime. I'm sure if they find any evidence of a crime they will get to work solving it. Meanwhile, it seems it could likely have been an accident.

 

[casesensitive]

I didn't mean to sound like I was demanding police to address the ice conditions. I just feel that it would be reassuring to know if it is even feasible that the ice near the bank would give way if stepped on by a child. I thought of this after Ariel's father noted that the ice was solid enough to require ice breakers to search which he felt means it was unlikely he could fall through. I wondered if the ice is solid at the banks.

I believe in a missing child case, police are in the business of collecting evidence to prove their theory of an accident, versus an abduction. In this case, most of their efforts are searching the river.

 

[carbuff]

Did Montreal have the late February-early March warm spell that the northeastern US had? I know in Massachusetts the warm weather softened the ice to the point where we had several pond and river rescues of people who didn't realize how much weaker it was. Then it turned cold and snowy again.

 

[eucalyptuz]

The trouble with ice banks along rivers is that they are not uniformly thick and therefore unpredictable. Eddies and currents in the river can cause hollowed out areas in the under-surface, almost like erosion but from below. And unlike lakes and ponds, the water's currents can be rapid so if you fell through cracked ice, into moving waters that were over your head, you are basically trapped unless you can get back to your point of entry.
The day Ariel went missing was the last day of a little stretch of above freezing temps and there was a big melt happening with snow drifts thawing and ice receding. On the night of his disappearance there was close to a foot of snow and temperatures had dropped. I think the ice banks of the river would have been very slippery with the melt event and I think any evidence of a break in the surface would have been quickly covered up by the snowfall and subsequent drop in temperatures refreezing the surface.
(link for historical weather data for Montreal:https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/canada/montreal/historic?month=3&year=2018)

Also, thanks to Hazel for posting those links about Kaden Young and Nathanial Thorassie. I have been thinking what the 'long game search and recovery' could mean for Ariel in terms of time and distance if he has in fact entered the river.
Nathaniel was found 10 months about 10km downstream in a relatively slower and smaller river in Winnipeg. I've been looking at satellite images of the areas east and downstream of Parc des bateliers and the first HydroQuebec generator is only 8km away (Rivière-des-Prairies Generating Station*). I don't know enough about Hydro plants to know whether this would be a barrier for a body or whether it would be possible during high flow periods for one to go undetected.

Map of HydroQuebec facilities:
http://www.hydroquebec.com/generation/pdf/carte-grands-equipements.pdf
*http://www.hydroquebec.com/visit/laval/prairie.html

 

[Phei]

I believe this is a case of someone who went missing in the same river.


https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/body-pulled-from-riviere-des-prairies-1.497759

 

[dotr]

Maybe incidences like this one make some in the neighbourhood think of abduction.
https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/two-plead-guilty-to-roles-in-bizarre-kidnapping-plot-1.3877485

[h=1]Two plead guilty to roles in bizarre kidnapping plot[/h]

April 9, 2018
Two people who conspired to help a mother kidnap her own child in Pointe-Aux-Trembles pleaded guilty at the Montreal courthouse on Monday.

 

[carbuff]

Hydroelectric installations generally have screens and netting in place to keep objects from getting into the equipment and so forth. It depends on dam design whether they also screen the spillways. I don't know anything about this specific dam though.