CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #2

[colette]

The email use of "Bary" and the fact that she did not want her name used could mean nothing. A computer savy person would know that once something is online, it stays there. Emails get passed around. Everyone gets emails that have been forwarded with 20 or more other people's information/email address connected to it. Spammers get those and then you are on their list, ect. It doesn't have to mean she was hiding or afraid of someone.
Keeping her married name, in the past that was usually done. Most women did not take back their maiden name as is done today. Plus if she did not like her family, she probably would not want to take back the family name.

I don't think she was hiding, I just think she was a very private person.

 

[dotr]

Although the mailbox smashing is not uncommon in some youth, I think that since it happened to AG( more than once and she lived in a fairly secluded area) that it is somewhat odd.Did AG throw on her coat to go outside and tell someone off for something?
What about this bit about a mailbox part? Do I understand correctly that AG and PK stole the part?! Does anyone remember that older movie Harold and Maude?
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/596070--who-killed-audrey-gleave
"Months later, Phil talked to a Hamilton Spectator writer about his relationship with Audrey. He told the story of her new mailbox. About a month before she died, vandals had busted up her old one, he said. She “hated the guts” of whoever did it. She bought a new mailbox, and when she discovered that a part was missing, she recruited Phil to drive with her to the hardware store.

Audrey found the spare part on a shelf and stuffed it inside her big parka. She had Phil run interference, make sure no one was watching, and they scurried out the door. All this, even though she could have simply asked for the part at the counter.

“She was so excited, it was her big night,” Phil said. “It was awesome.”

 

[Hazel]

Although the mailbox smashing is not uncommon in some youth, I think that since it happened to AG( more than once and she lived in a fairly secluded area) that it is somewhat odd.Did AG throw on her coat to go outside and tell someone off for something?
What about this bit about a mailbox part? Do I understand correctly that AG and PK stole the part?! Does anyone remember that older movie Harold and Maude?
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/596070--who-killed-audrey-gleave
"Months later, Phil talked to a Hamilton Spectator writer about his relationship with Audrey. He told the story of her new mailbox. About a month before she died, vandals had busted up her old one, he said. She “hated the guts” of whoever did it. She bought a new mailbox, and when she discovered that a part was missing, she recruited Phil to drive with her to the hardware store.

Audrey found the spare part on a shelf and stuffed it inside her big parka. She had Phil run interference, make sure no one was watching, and they scurried out the door. All this, even though she could have simply asked for the part at the counter.

“She was so excited, it was her big night,” Phil said. “It was awesome.”

Will watch the trailer, don't think I ever watch that movie...love Cat Stevens songs!
[video=youtube;5mz3TkxJhPc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mz3TkxJhPc[/video]



Harold and Maude - Full Movie - Part 1 - YouTube

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Response to dotr: Yes, I understood the article to say that AG stole the part for the new mailbox and PK ran interference so she could get out of the store without being charged with shoplifting.:twocents:

 

[nicgumshoe]

I think you may have something with the Harold and Muade scenario. That had crossed my mind as well after reading a few of PK's statements, including the one where he says, "I'm in shock. I thought we had lots of years to spend together."

sorce: http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2917051

The mailbox part anecdote reminds me of something like Harold and Maude with a hint of Bonnie and Clyde.

Since he's a "practising Christian" (mentioned somewhere in the Spec story, I think part 1), I'm surprised that he'd so easily condone that behavior with statements like, "It was awesome".

Honestly, I think almost everyone is still a suspect, and LE are trying to flush out some details with the aid of the Spec story. Maybe to get someone on edge so they make a mistake. Either that, or they've really narrowed it down, have a decent circumstantial case and are just looking for that extra something to top it off.

 

[dotr]

Wow Hazel- thanks for putting t H and M links up- I almost forgot about the great soundtrack too!

 

[nicgumshoe]

My first impressions of today's installment:

DISCREPENCIES:

He punched in the code on the keypad. The door rose. The Camaro was parked in its usual spot, both its doors closed.

That's when he saw her, he said, on the garage floor, lying on her back.

Had Audrey slipped and fallen on some ice, he wondered? Up close, he saw that was not the case.

She wore her winter coat. Her comfortable stretch pants were ripped.

He went outside and called 911 on his cell. The person on the other end asked him to confirm she was dead. He returned to the garage, knelt down and felt for a pulse.

Then he went outside, sat on the bumper of his car, and waited.

Police spoke of the brutality of the murder, that it had been a stabbing. She had also been beaten. From what Phil saw, or remembered, it was not a gruesome scene.


From what Hrab said at the outset, it was the most horrific scene he'd ever seen in his long career as a police officer. I was thinking it looked somewhat like the SV crime scene - all blood-covered and clearly a homicide on first glance. Phil says he thought she'd perhaps slipped on the icy ground.

These differences in description don't make sense to me.

What do the rest of you people think of these differences? What a conundrum!

QUESTIONS:
- was Audrey's face still its normal colour or had it begun to turn blue?
- since Audrey was such a private person, why would she give out her garage code to anyone? (no offence meant to Phil)
- does the 'eyes wide open' indicate a time of death?
- who else could have known Audrey's garage code?

So many questions linger.......

I've been thinking the same. I found PK's statement also to be contradictory to what he said on Jan 6, 2011,

PK 22, was the “young handyman” police said discovered Gleave last Thursday morning. It was a horrific scene, he told the Spectator, and he keeps seeing flashbacks.

(source: http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/309473--that-s-so-audrey)

That seems to be more in line with Hrab's description.

PK's other statement about it not being gruesome is at odds. Watered down for some reason? Or maybe something can be horrific but not gruesome?

 

[Hazel]

Wow Hazel- thanks for putting t H and M links up- I almost forgot about the great soundtrack too!

Thanks to you dotr I just watch the whole movie .... I feel for H's Mom

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

:welcome4: nicgumshoe !!!

 

[nicgumshoe]

Thank you! I've been reading everyone's great posts for the past couple of days (and nights....I need a nap . Really some excellent thoughts and a great forum.

 

[Hazel]

Hey all,

Just some clarifications re: the bench. It spent most of its time sitting behind the Camaro in the entranceway to the garage. AG would spend lots of time sitting on the bench having a smoke or watching the dogs run or just surveying the property. AG virtually never allowed anyone in her home. From what I've heard, I'm actually the only one who spent extensive social time inside. Yes, LE took the bench.

It is certainly possible that AG would have sat out on the bench having a smoke with the garage door open and the light on, however, AG rarely spent time outside by herself. If she wasn't expecting a visitor she almost certainly would have let the dogs out for a run if she was sitting outside. If AG was inside and not intending to go out, the garage door would be closed.

Re-reading k's post, now I'm not sure if in the last sentence he meant: "If AG was inside [the garage] or [the home] ?

PK, if you are around, would AG smoke inside her home? Did she have ashtrays in certain rooms? Or did she ALWAYS smoke outdoors and/or inside the garage? What I would like to know more specifically is: Did Audrey smoke inside the garage with the doors closed? Also, how roomy is the garage? In one of the articles the journalist mentions "twin doors". Thanks in advance!

 

[Hazel]

Hello all,

It is true the police have politely asked me not to share some details... Though I will say that one of the things that has drawn me so powerfully to this forum is how accurately you have deduced some details with the limited information that is publicly available!

The dogs were confined away from the area where AG was found. Although it wasn't especially unlikely for AG to confine them away from this area during the day, I cant imagine her in this area in the middle of the night. Hopefully that isn't uselessly cryptic?

respectfully snipped and bolded by me

Oh geez! I was interrupted when I was quoting and snipping these posts, and now I cannot remember what was it I was going to say.
I guess I was just trying to point out that PK was asked by LE not to divulge where was A's body found (and other details I assume).
Now the Spec has clearly stated it was the garage floor, and PK is quoted saying that he cannot imagine her in that area [garage] in the middle of the night.

 

[nicgumshoe]

When I used to smoke (hense the nicgum part of my un), there was only one thing that could get me to let down my guard and wander potentially dangerous streets in the wee hours....needing more smokes. I've often wondered if she went off a safe routine for that...and went for smokes in the night.

 

[dotr]

When I used to smoke (hense the nicgum part of my un), there was only one thing that could get me to let down my guard and wander potentially dangerous streets in the wee hours....needing more smokes. I've often wondered if she went off a safe routine for that...and went for smokes in the night.

Welcome nicgumshoe, great moniker! I could see someone throwing on a coat, jumping in a car to get smokes,but if not feeling up to it, you might use a delivery service (taxi,pizza,ect.) or ask someone you would not usually ask, to do it for you.

 

[nicgumshoe]

Welcome nicgumshoe, great moniker! I could see someone throwing on a coat, jumping in a car to get smokes,but if not feeling up to it, you might use a delivery service (taxi,pizza,ect.) or ask someone you would not usually ask, to do it for you.

Quite true! Hadn't thought of that. I have done that myself for beer; in the innocence of my youth....many moons ago

That could certainly put someone there. With many services it would probably be logged. Though, there used to be taxi guys in Hamilton we called "rumrunners" and "bootleggers", and they may have been able to circumvent the log books.

In any case, there would probably be phone records indicating AG made a call to someone, asking to fetch them for her.

 

[Missizzy]

Welcome, nicgumshoe. Glad to have you on board!!

I don't understand the dissonance between the earlier statements by PK--"horrific, having flashbacks" and the current "not gruesome". His most recent description sounds sad and terribly upsetting but not gruesome or horrific at all.

I have to wonder, which is it?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Hi nicgumshoe!

:welcome5::welcome4::welcome5:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Part Four: Audrey's Case Gets Colder


http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/596949--audrey-s-case-gets-colder

But in mid-August police asked him to take a polygraph test — lie detector — and he agreed. A detective told him flat out that he was a person of interest. Phil understood why police were spending time with him.

“To some extent I can understand it, because I had opportunity. I gather that's all you need for them to declare you a person of interest.”

For most questions, police request one-word answers when administering a polygraph.

“Did you kill Audrey Gleave?” he was asked.

“No.”

“Did you cause her physical harm?”

“No.”

“Do you know who killed Audrey?”

“No.”

“Were you present when she died?”

“No.”

Phil asked the detectives some questions of his own. Were they talking to other persons of interest?


PK, are you still here at this forum? If so, would you please be kind enough to fill in the blanks here (if you're able to do so regarding what LE has asked of you). Thanks!

 

[Snoopster]

From the article link above:

Not long after the charges were dropped, a new case manager, Staff Sergeant Ian Matthews, was named to replace Steve Hrab. That move was “based on some competing caseloads and some court commitments,” according to police spokesperson Catherine Martin.

For the renewed investigation, it was back to interviewing neighbours and friends of Audrey's. A behavioural profile of the killer was now requested from the OPP's profiling section.

I wonder if they'll bring Sgt Det. Jim Smythe in. (from the Russell Williams and Victoria Stafford cases).

As for Audrey's friend, Phil Kinsman, he enrolled in the PhD engineering program at McMaster, presented a paper at a conference in San Diego in June, and put the final touches on his master's thesis. (The subject matter: computational acceleration for medical imaging — speeding up testing for a CT scan, for example.)

He had already been interviewed by police, and ruled out as a suspect by Steve Hrab early in the investigation.

But in mid-August police asked him to take a polygraph test — lie detector — and he agreed. A detective told him flat out that he was a person of interest. Phil understood why police were spending time with him.

“To some extent I can understand it, because I had opportunity. I gather that's all you need for them to declare you a person of interest.”

I am going to guess that there are still a number of avenues for LE to dig into. I hope they find the perpetrator soon, for the sake of Audrey's friends and neighbours.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Yes, I'm also glad that they're bringing in someone new to help with this case. I'm almost sick at the thought that someone will get away with murdering Audrey Gleave. Just sick at the thought.......

 

[nicgumshoe]

First of all, thanks for the kind "welcomes" folks. It's a pleasure to be here.

A few thoughts:

Concerning the 4th and final part of today's Spec story:

Would/could they publish that PK passed the lie detector test, if he had passed it?
would/could they publish the results if he failed?

Just wondering why we don't know the results, especially if he passed.


Thoughts on AG's Estate:

I'm a little surprised at the value of AG's estate.

Knowing a little about teacher's salaries and pensions, I'm amazed
it was only valued at about $500,00 (thought I saw that figure few times),
with the majority being in the house (approx. $450,000).

I imagine she waited until the magic figure of 90 (or near it)
to retire. Pretty sure that when your age + years teaching add up to 90, you're
eligible for full pension. At least, it used to be that way.

In the Part 1 of the Spec story it doesn't say exactly when she started, but
1967 seems to be around the time she decided to teach. In Part 2 it says she retired in
1997 at age 60.

She would have been making decent money, with benefits, especially as a senior teacher with years of experience.

Being single, she could have saved a heck of a lot. (My father was a local teacher, who
started around the same time. He did more than all right).

While it sounds like she bought a few expensive items now and again (Camaro, big tv, pet cemetery plots and markers, college courses), she doesn't come across as a big spender; stayed home a lot, and no fancy vacations.

So I'm puzzled as to why she only had about $50,000 in assets above and beyond the house value.

Where did her money go? Donations? Or did she withdraw it and keep bundles of cash around the house?

My grandfather and uncle (who lived in similar settings to AG), both kept all their loot at home. And, in their senior years there was no end to "religious" people calling on them to discuss eternity and wills. One finally succeeded in getting my uncle to change his will. The countryside seems to be a great place to plan and pull off crimes like that, because no-one's really watching.