CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #2

[dotr]

KF's murder intrigues me. It was after Christmas when it was really cold, any kind of stalking would have been impossible here in Caledon, cold visibility and footprints etc.
Did the killer pick her up in Toronto and bring her up here? He has to live somewhere.
She was dumped close to SV, very creepy. LE has been very quiet about her, not a word on how she died.

Just in case you missed this thread on KF, also there have been a string of assaults on sex workers in Hamilton..
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131298&page=4

 

[LilyMacBloom]

"IMO, this case is more complicated than I once thought -- it's a big onion with many layers and once LE gets all of them peeled away, IMO there is going to be so much more to the story."

Quoting Roseofsharon, I believe you are spot on! The stuff movies are made of.

 

[libyana]

There is very methodical stalking involved, this takes time and skill. Also the perp is probably skilled at breaking and entering. Someone said AG was a night owl so someone could creep around her house in the darkness maybe. So what does this guy do? Is he on his own, someone must know him. I also thought of a military man at one point, someone who might be overseas now, but maybe it has gone quiet because of the swabbing of dna in Orangeville and the perp is laying low for a while.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Lily MacBloom said "the suff movies are made of" - well, I've been wondering about that very thing. Jon Wells, who wrote the articles for The Hamilton Spectator, is also a writer of crime novels.

I wonder if he has a book and/or script in mind?

 

[dotr]

Lily MacBloom said "the suff movies are made of" - well, I've been wondering about that very thing. Jon Wells, who wrote the articles for The Hamilton Spectator, is also a writer of crime novels.

I wonder if he has a book and/or script in mind?

Well this story would certainly make an interesting film and not just as a "crime" film, but a human story too,for example- the following would make a beautiful scene...
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/596070--who-killed-audrey-gleave
“I know private is a word that has often been used to describe Audrey, but I'm amazed at how many people she affected in her life. I want to share one small story: I remember the first time Audrey ever hugged me. Understand, she's a private person, but even more so with physical affection.

“ I remember I was over at her house, we had spent the entire day planting flowers; she loved flowers. She shared with me all the research she had done.

" At the end of day, we were both exhausted and a bit frustrated and she said to me point blank, ‘Well, did you learn something today or not?' And I said of course I did. The way she left us is tragic, but in these situations of chaos, it's instinctive to ask why, to look for answers. I prefer to just be so thankful she left us with a lesson, that our time is so short. Every moment we can spend together in love, and cherish together, (it's) so important to do that.”

 

[Canadian4]

I have started at the beginning looking at the videos and stories and wondered what this gentlemen meant by generous

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2912179&archive=true

While other neighbours described Gleave as a recluse, Sharp recalled a "generous" woman who "loved to talk" when the two would meet at the end of their properties

 

[dotr]

I missed this news post, concerning the recent article about AG and how it violates AG's privacy.Good comments follow.
http://www.thespec.com/opinion/lett...tator-series-victimizes-private-audrey-gleave

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I missed this news post, concerning the recent article about AG and how it violates AG's privacy.Good comments follow.
http://www.thespec.com/opinion/lett...tator-series-victimizes-private-audrey-gleave

Oh, I missed it as well. Thanks for bringing it to our attention!!:tyou:

And indeed - the gardening and hugging "scene" would be tremendous. Everyone would cry - good tears, I mean! :sigh:

 

[dotr]

I have started at the beginning looking at the videos and stories and wondered what this gentlemen meant by generous

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2912179&archive=true

From the same link, another neighbour gives a different perspective..no wonder this is a tricky case to solve,they say (or so I've heard) is know the victim first and the clues will follow...

"Down the street, Darryl Ferguson said he saw Gleave "three times in four years, other than waving, going by in the car."

"She's been a loner all her life," he said.

"She would e-mail my mom or call her once a year, twice a year," said Ferguson's son, Cam. "She just liked to stay, stay to herself."

 

[libyana]

I think AG seems like a very stoic down to earth person , probably the type who would enjoy investigative forums such as this. I think she would be very honoured that people care so much. I am sure she was private in life because she realized the danger of being a woman alone. I find it a comfort to be on here because nobody wants to talk about it.
Some of my friends won't go there as they say, they think because they do not fit a "profile' that they are given they are fine. Surely to discuss and analisze is empowering.
This perp or perps we don't know is the worst of the worst, we do not know the half of it I am sure. To us women he is a terrorist and we have to look out for each other.

 

[Hazel]

I bumped into my friend following is some points of interest:
-All important documents were found in AGs purse. There was no banking information in her purse, nor could LV find banking records in the house. LV had to go to major branches making enquiries and finally found AG banked at the Teachers Credit Union.
-AG paid for everything (including groceries) with a credit card, she did not debit. Once/month a withdrawl was made for several hundred dollars. She questioned what she would need that money for. (me assuming she paid PK in cash)
-LV purchased a new car and LE followed up asking questions where the monies came from etc. So clearly everyone is suspect.
-They were all shocked to find out about prior marriages over the several years she knew AG only fartface and AG mother in law was ever mentioned.
HER speculation/questions.
-something or someone made AG as paranoid as she was
-was AG in a witness protection program?
-was AG a CIA at some time? (me thinking of Chalk River)
-was AG being bribed, lending a helping hand (cash) to someone (ie: a secret pregnancy, child given up, recently reconnected?)

ummm...that's all I remember right now.

Thanks Lily!
One of the things that always intrigued me was "All important documents were found in AGs purse"
What an odd place to keep important papers (assuming it to mean the purse AG was currently using, since we know how we gals cannot just have the one purse.)

Or were those 'important papers' found hidden in one of the many purses I assume AG had? That would IMO make more sense. Otherwise, why would Audrey go around town carrying important papers in her purse that she could misplace or be snatched by someone?

Why not keep them in a bank's safety deposit box instead? Why didn't she have checking/savings accs. in major banks?

ITA that $50K life savings is very little money for someone like her that was described by LV as a "bargain hunter" and was living a very simple life, no children, nephews, nieces, family. If she retired at 60 and was killed a couple months short of her 74th birthday, wouldn't she have a lot more saved from her teacher's pension?
Was her teacher's pension deposited into that "Teachers Credit Union account"?
Would it be possible she owned a bank account under a different name? Her mother's or father's perhaps? :waitasec: (just thinking out loud)

 

[Hazel]

In the pictures of AG's car being removed by LE, there was no blood visible on it. I find it odd that there was no apparent blood spattering, given stabbing and bludgeoning, combined with the description of her crowded garage and that her body must have been in close proximity to the car. Possibly the "horrific" scene that Sgt Hrab referred to was inside the home, and what PK witnessed in the garage was a result of AG having been moved there for some unknown reason.

Good points, though we don't know if her body was found on the left or right side of the Camaro. For all we know, the 'other side' could be smudged/splattered
Video of Camaro being removed (00:35 mark): http://swo.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110603/gleave-murder-charges-withdrawn-110603/20110603/?hub=SWOHome

Was the car found locked? Did the attack took place inside the home, inside the Camaro or inside the garage?
We still don't even know for sure if the car keys were found in A's purse, or if the car keys were found. Could the keys be the 'trophy' the perp took? or has it been established that the 'trophy' is a body part?

 

[roseofsharon]

Thanks Lily!
One of the things that always intrigued me was "All important documents were found in AGs purse"
What an odd place to keep important papers (assuming it to mean the purse AG was currently using, since we know how we gals cannot just have the one purse.)

Or were those 'important papers' found hidden in one of the many purses I assume AG had? That would IMO make more sense. Otherwise, why would Audrey go around town carrying important papers in her purse that she could misplace or be snatched by someone?

Why not keep them in a bank's safety deposit box instead? Why didn't she have checking/savings accs. in major banks?

ITA that $50K life savings is very little money for someone like her that was described by LV as a "bargain hunter" and was living a very simple life, no children, nephews, nieces, family. If she retired at 60 and was killed a couple months short of her 74th birthday, wouldn't she have a lot more saved from her teacher's pension?
Was her teacher's pension deposited into that "Teachers Credit Union account"?
Would it be possible she owned a bank account under a different name? Her mother's or father's perhaps? :waitasec: (just thinking out loud)

I was thinking about this also and agree with everything you are saying.

I also read that AG would withdraw large sums of money on a regular basis and she may have kept this money hidden in her home, garage or buried in the back yard. AG also may have confided in someone about this money and they may have come knocking to borrow or even steal from AG.

There may have been an evening of chit chat, a meal and a few drinks and at the end of the visit, possibly she went to her garage for the money -- turning her back on a trusted friend.

If AG didn't keep a paper trail regarding her money, LE would not be aware that a robbery had occurred. AG may have gone to the garage to retrieve money for the loan and then was struck from behind.

Since the murder occurred during a difficult time of year -- many people are cash strapped, imo the perp is someone AG knew and trusted and was going to help them out.

The sexual component of the crime was likely an act carried out to throw out a smoke screen to make LE think it was a sexually motivated crime, but robbery was imo the motive here.

With years and years of withdrawing large sums of money, if the money was not in any accounts, it must have been hidden in her home or her property.

Even a total stranger who happened to be in the credit union at the same time every month observing an elderly woman withdrawing large sums of cash would be able to stalk for a short time to watch AG's comings and goings and then wait for their opportunity -- Christmas a time when a lot of people are away at relatives' homes or home parties.

IMO

 

[dotr]

I haven't watched this case too closely recently. But I wonder if Canadian LE has looked into this guy with regard to this case. I know the MO is different and there was a murder, but if he's done robbery, he could have graduated. He did personal injury to one victim who caught onto his scheme and when he realized he'd been caught, he robbed her and fled.

Don't know if this guy's connected, but they might pass his photo around. They say he hides in plane sight. He also is untraceable. I've looked into a few other elderly murders and there are a few in the general vicinity. Plus, this guy has been traced, at one time, close to this area. He's been alluding Canadian LE for a few years now.

Who knows, maybe this victim was by her garage because he was trying to get her to make a bank withdrawal and she objected and he killed her.

He's wanted for crimes in, Ottawa, Winnipeg, Medicine Hat, and Calgary. Then there's this crime in Ancaster, with an additional one in Cambellford, and one in Rock Forest. Do a mapquest of the locations and you'll see many are within the same vicinity.

Maybe a wild-goose chase, but something to ponder.............and sleuth into.

JMHO
fran


http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/293204
Conman wanted on Canada-wide warrant


http://wvpd.ca/breaking-stories/450...ic-assistance-in-locating-richard-earl-rupert
Canada Wide Warrant for Richard Rupert known to prey on elderly citizens

This short video of the perp in action might remind one of how one simple act escalates into violence.This guy is known to move freely across the country..
[video=youtube;TSUmsEQ-ty8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSUmsEQ-ty8[/video]

 

[LilyMacBloom]

So, do we believe this was about money? Because I don’t believe for one moment that AGs total worth was $450,000. (Canadian would you please compile what you think would be the teachers pension at the time plus assets)? My guess is that her property was worth that, pension worth the same amount plus personal assets. I figure her net worth more like 1mil. MINIMUM!
-On the Teachers Credit Union, my thought on this and the fact that AG didn’t leave any banking info handy for LV , is that AG named LV but LV would have to “work” to get it. “that’s our Audrey”!
IF we believe this was a crime of vengeance et al , then the crime has nothing to do with money. As the perp would not monetarily benefit but would gain some "personal satisfaction"

Which is it????????????????

 

[roseofsharon]

So, do we believe this was about money? Because I don’t believe for one moment that AGs total worth was $450,000. (Canadian would you please compile what you think would be the teachers pension at the time plus assets)? My guess is that her property was worth that, pension worth the same amount plus personal assets. I figure her net worth more like 1mil. MINIMUM!
-On the Teachers Credit Union, my thought on this and the fact that AG didn’t leave any banking info handy for LV , is that AG named LV but LV would have to “work” to get it. “that’s our Audrey”!
IF we believe this was a crime of vengeance et al , then the crime has nothing to do with money. As the perp would not monetarily benefit but would gain some "personal satisfaction"

Which is it????????????????

Was LV the executor and the beneficiary? I agree Lily -- the estate would have been much larger and the big question -- where is it?? imo

 

[Canadian4]

IF we believe this was a crime of vengeance et al , then the crime has nothing to do with money. As the perp would not monetarily benefit but would gain some "personal satisfaction" [/QUOTE

Maybe the perp "found out" they weren't going to monetarily benefit and decided to get some "personal satisfaction".

 

[nicgumshoe]

That's exactly what I've been thinking libyana! And I also include SL (Shelley Loder of Mono) in this string of attacks/murders.

As you said, there simply cannot be 3-4 people out there in such a relatively small area of Southern Ontario who are attacking/killing women. Can there?

I once read somewhere that some experts think there are as many as 60,000 serial killers roaming North America. Southern Ontario is one of the most densely populated areas in NA, with almost 2/3 of Canadian living here. That means quite a few serial killers could be on the loose.

And with the countryside being a short jaunt from almost any city, it's a good place to commit a crime, away from the ever-increasing number of cameras, and witnesses.

 

[nicgumshoe]

I once read somewhere that some experts think there are as many as 60,000 serial killers roaming North America. Southern Ontario is one of the most densely populated areas in NA, with almost 2/3 of Canadian living here. That means quite a few serial killers could be on the loose.

And with the countryside being a short jaunt from almost any city, it's a good place to commit a crime, away from the ever-increasing number of cameras, and witnesses.

Sorry, I think I meant 60,000 psyhcopaths....that could become serial killers.
Anyway, I recall my son and I thinking it was enough to fill a town.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I, for one, do not think this killing is about money. Audrey only showed the world one flashy, costly thing - the car. Other than the car, her life appeared to be a simple life.

No, for me, money is too easy an out for this killer. I think the killer is someone who wanted (needed?) to do real physical harm and in doing so, he also demeaned Audrey. He left her dead in a garage (near her flashy car) on a freezing cold and desolate night. At Christmas time approaching a bright, new year.

For me, this killing seems more personal than money. Her intelligence? Her vulnerability? Her career? Her simplicity? All things the killer despised!