CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #9

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I was thinking about Audrey.. 8 years tomorrow since she was brutally murdered at her home. They believe she died December 27th. I was thinking... around Christmas it seems that everyone is more full of cheer and 'goodwill toward men', 'live and let live', charitable feelings, etc. So it seemed weird to me that she would be killed randomly at such a time.

Makes me believe it was in anger, by someone known, who felt they had a reason of some kind. I could see if she'd been robbed maybe, since possibly more robberies might occur at this time of year, however apparently nothing was taken from AG's home, and for such a crime, an elderly woman alone with no family wouldn't be a prime target I wouldn't think. No expensive electronic gifts to steal in that house.

To be staged to appear as a sexual assault also indicates, imho, that the killer wanted to deceive police from knowing the real intent of her murder.. and the reason for that would seem to be to therefore hide the killer's identity. If just a random stranger, the likelihood of getting caught, I would think, might be minimal in the first place, as compared to someone with a grudge killing her, so why the need to make it appear to be something else?

I find it odd to think that AG wouldn't have made provisions for her two dogs. She left instructions for her ashes to be buried with her pre-deceased dogs in their grave(s) at the pet cemetery, so why wouldn't she have thought about her current dogs? She left her estate to her friend of some 30 years, also apparently a dog lover.. but yet didn't seem to make arrangements or leave instructions to ensure her current 'best friends' would have a home and be well cared for upon her death. If it were me, and of course I speak only for myself, and I had been left an estate worth almost half a million dollars from an old friend, I would hope to muster enough charity in my heart to look after those dogs in return. It would be the least I could do, perhaps the only thing I could do, in return, even if I wasn't hot on the idea. No judgement there, but just another oddity, imho.
 
As well as quite strange, I remember the passage with the possibly emerging minors, who should also be considered in the LW ....
No care for dogs despite given, but care for minors despite not given AFAIK - something to think about for long 8 years now.
What a mysterious Last Will (besides the signatures of the 2 witnesses, which were special types of a person). Vague in my mind at the moment.
 
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I'm thinking about timeline, and revisiting earlier theories here that someone other than Audrey could have sent the "Amazing Grace" ("AG" -- Audrey Gleave) emails, and the message to the coffee club about missing the Wednesday gathering. There is something coincidentally eery about the lyrics to the song (even though I believe it was the instrumental-only version that was sent), in these words particularly (from Amazing Grace > Lyrics | John Newton):

"The Lord has promised good to me,
His Word my hope secures;
He will my Shield and Portion be,
As long as life endures.
Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess, within the veil,
A life of joy and peace."

IF LE believed AG was murdered on the 27th, and PK and another contact both received the emails in the morning of the 27th (morning and 6 pm respectively), is it possible these were a sadistic message from her killer? To arrive at this we'd have to know a few things: at what time precisely did AG send the email PK opened in the morning? This would have to be ATFER LV brought soup (even as another email to PK that morn intimates LV would be bringing the soup). AND we would have to know that AG did not indeed see the vet (Dr. DC) later that day -- aft of the 27th -- as has been indicated in some reports. In the second email to PK, AG writes about "secondary infection" and making the coffee group gathering "come hell or high water" -- I'm revising my own earlier feelings that this language is not necessarily odd. I'm now thinking the "secondary infection" could potentially be a twisted joke..... Again, we'd need to know that AG was not actually seen after the sending of these messages to posit that it was her killer who sent them.
 
2soccermom said:
I'm thinking about timeline, and revisiting earlier theories here that someone other than Audrey could have sent the "Amazing Grace" ("AG" -- Audrey Gleave) emails, and the message to the coffee club about missing the Wednesday gathering. There is something coincidentally eery about the lyrics to the song (even though I believe it was the instrumental-only version that was sent), in these words particularly (from Amazing Grace > Lyrics | John Newton):

"The Lord has promised good to me,
His Word my hope secures;
He will my Shield and Portion be,
As long as life endures.
Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess, within the veil,
A life of joy and peace."

IF LE believed AG was murdered on the 27th, and PK and another contact both received the emails in the morning of the 27th (morning and 6 pm respectively), is it possible these were a sadistic message from her killer? To arrive at this we'd have to know a few things: at what time precisely did AG send the email PK opened in the morning? This would have to be ATFER LV brought soup (even as another email to PK that morn intimates LV would be bringing the soup). AND we would have to know that AG did not indeed see the vet (Dr. DC) later that day -- aft of the 27th -- as has been indicated in some reports. In the second email to PK, AG writes about "secondary infection" and making the coffee group gathering "come hell or high water" -- I'm revising my own earlier feelings that this language is not necessarily odd. I'm now thinking the "secondary infection" could potentially be a twisted joke..... Again, we'd need to know that AG was not actually seen after the sending of these messages to posit that it was her killer who sent them.
Click to expand...
Have previously wondered if the " secondary infection " comment, might actually be a veiled way to say her computer had a " virus "? speculation.
Who killed Audrey Gleave?
"In retirement, Audrey Gleave took a computer studies course at Mohawk College, achieving a 100 per cent grade. She was an ace bridge player and loved to watch TV's "The Big Bang Theory."

She met former teacher friends for coffee every Wednesday at Williams Fresh Café on Main Street West.

On Monday morning, Dec. 27, 2010 she emailed her friend Phil Kinsman, a 22-year old graduate engineering student at McMaster who did gardening and handyman jobs for her.

She wrote that she had not been feeling well lately, but would attend her Wednesday coffee at Williams "come hell or high water." She signed her email "Baryon," a nickname she had coined, after the subatomic particle.

Police believe she was killed that same afternoon or early evening.

On Thursday, Dec. 30, at about 11 a.m., Kinsman called 911 from his car in Gleave's laneway.

He told police he discovered the body in the garage, after trying to bring Gleave a cake baked by his wife, Alex, a pastry chef. Gleave had attended the couple's wedding the previous June in Ancaster.

Kinsman said that in keeping with the routine he had with Gleave, he punched in the code on her garage door and it opened to reveal her lying on her back next to the Camaro.

The case attracted national attention because the victim was a woman in her 70s, living alone in a peaceful rural setting with no connections to criminal elements.

Police said there was a lot of blood. One detective said she had been stabbed."
"But Det. Angela Abrams says Gleave was targeted — which stands to reason, given the relative isolation of where she lived and how careful she was about letting anyone close to her.

She was a creature of habit: the times when she checked her computer, the hours she slept, coming and going from the house with her dogs."
 
dotr said:
Have previously wondered if the " secondary infection " comment, might actually be a veiled way to say her computer had a " virus "? speculation.
Click to expand...
Top idea, dotr! :)
AG "played around" with viruses, which were sent to her by friends due to her request. Which friends, I would ask (not so many, I think).
Because of that, AG as an (hyper intelligent) expert would have been urging to be involved in the process of development of new software, with her thoughts/ideas/knowledge. Although the developer (aka handy man/friend) assured, they never talked about his work in general. Never ever would I believe it, sorry. This topic would have been the most interesting one, IMO MOO (and not always only the Floriculture in AG's garden).
 
2soccermom said:
I'm thinking about timeline, and revisiting earlier theories here that someone other than Audrey could have sent the "Amazing Grace" ("AG" -- Audrey Gleave) emails, and the message to the coffee club about missing the Wednesday gathering.
Click to expand...
bbm

What coincidence .... ;):eek:
 
$350K in uncollected rewards for unsolved Hamilton murders, missing persons and hit-and-runs
Feb 26, 2016

Not all unsolved crimes in Hamilton are associated with cash rewards. Here’s a sampling of cold cases still on the police books:
......
Audrey Gleave, 73, was found stabbed, attacked and sexually assaulted in her Indian Trail home in rural Ancaster on Dec. 29, 2010. Police originally laid charges against an eccentric Brantford man who was living in an abandoned barn down the road, but charges were dropped after DNA evidence didn’t match. Police have called the slaying one of the most vicious of the past decade.
 
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I wonder, why AG, Audrey's ex, AFAIK didn't care for, who got/inherited "his" beloved home on "his" beloved property, which Audrey during divorce was forced to promise, never ever to sell it ....
-.-
I wonder also, why Audrey didn't add an important notice to her Last Will worded similar like:
"IF I ever will be found dead/murdered/raped, then LE should have interest for the person (name)."

As we know, AG had exact premonitions of her future death. If someone is fearing for his life like AG and knows about a person or circle of people, who might be the future killer/killers, one could have deposited this note.
 
What does it mean, if I have no children, but in my Last Will add a clause for any underage heirs and what claims they will have on inheritance, when these underage heirs become known.

Who can please explain the logic to that?
 
FromGermany said:
What does it mean, if I have no children, but in my Last Will add a clause for any underage heirs and what claims they will have on inheritance, when these underage heirs become known.

Who can please explain the logic to that?
Click to expand...
It may just be inserted as a standard clause that her particular lawyer advised her to leave in there, since to add a moot clause would not hurt anything, but yet it would potentially protect her interests in the event something (like even perhaps a bogus claim?) came out of the woodwork?

I find it odd that AG initially became married at such a young age (was it 16???), and especially if she may have had aspirations of future educational goals and becoming a career woman; wondering if it's possible she could have a hidden teen pregnancy in her past - which ended in adoption. That particular clause make take on more meaning if that were the case? Could she have married just to save face with her parents, even though the plan was to offer the said child for adoption?

FG do you remember where the exact wording of that portion of her Will can be found? I did not realize it specified 'underage'.. that seems peculiar as well.

Just a thought here, but... what if she'd had a child at 16 who was subsequently adopted, and at some point, say 20 or even 40 years later, it came to her attention that her child had died, but she knew little else about the child's life. She wouldn't know whether her child had gone on to have children of her own, and if so, whether those persons may eventually discover their biological history and subsequently try to make a claim on AG's estate? Even so, to specify 'underage' seems odd?
 
anonymess said:
Seems like it would be great if LE could do some genealogy with the perp's dna...
Click to expand...
It would be great, if they had some, but I'm not sure they do, at least any that would be meaningful.

I think they were working things in reverse. ie I believe they sent the knife confiscated from DS to the forensics lab, feeling sure they would find AG's DNA on it, perhaps stuck up inside where the blade meets the handle, or something, which would link DS to AG.. but when that came back negative, they realized there was just no evidence against him whatsoever, other than he was weird and sometimes stayed in a barn some 6 kms away. (Too bad they put all their eggs in that basket!)

And if they found DNA evidence of PK (self proclaimed to be a POI in this case) inside the garage, or even on AG's coat or clothing - he was a somewhat regular visitor and had been in her garage many times.. so finding evidence of him there would be rather meaningless. jmo.
 
deugirtni said:
It may just be inserted as a standard clause that her particular lawyer advised her to leave in there, since to add a moot clause would not hurt anything, but yet it would potentially protect her interests in the event something (like even perhaps a bogus claim?) came out of the woodwork?

I find it odd that AG initially became married at such a young age (was it 16???), and especially if she may have had aspirations of future educational goals and becoming a career woman; wondering if it's possible she could have a hidden teen pregnancy in her past - which ended in adoption. That particular clause make take on more meaning if that were the case? Could she have married just to save face with her parents, even though the plan was to offer the said child for adoption?

FG do you remember where the exact wording of that portion of her Will can be found? I did not realize it specified 'underage'.. that seems peculiar as well.

Just a thought here, but... what if she'd had a child at 16 who was subsequently adopted, and at some point, say 20 or even 40 years later, it came to her attention that her child had died, but she knew little else about the child's life. She wouldn't know whether her child had gone on to have children of her own, and if so, whether those persons may eventually discover their biological history and subsequently try to make a claim on AG's estate? Even so, to specify 'underage' seems odd?
Click to expand...
bbm
AG was too old for an underaged son/daughter, when she set up her Last Will in 2007 (?).
I will search for the LW, have not yet found it. :)
 
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FromGermany said:
bbm
AG was too old for an underaged son/daughter, when she set up her Last Will in 2007 (?).
I will search for the LW, have not yet found it. :)
Click to expand...
Yes, but according to the wording you posted above, you said 'underage heir'.. so that could be a grandchild? Even potentially a great grandchild?
 
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