Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #1

[rosesfromangels]

I don't see it as suspicious, it's just intense competition amongst the Toronto media to be first out with the news, in a small country where this kind of thing never happens, and everyone was wondering.

Toronto is a major city, a techno hub. Not small at all. Very cosmo, and progressive.

 

[dotr]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...-of-billionaires-barry-and-honey-sherman.html

The police statement Sunday did not indicate Toronto police were investigating a homicide or homicides, only that the homicide unit had taken over investigation of the deaths.

rbbm.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I don’t understand that dotr. Doesn’t make sense...

 

[otto]

I don't see it as suspicious, it's just intense competition amongst the Toronto media to be first out with the news, in a small country where this kind of thing never happens, and everyone was wondering.

Compared to Canada, the USA is the small country. Canada does not have a problem with "fake news".

This may well be a murder suicide, and police are being very cautious to pursue a homicide theory to satisfy the family.

 

[Lilibet]

I don’t understand that dotr. Doesn’t make sense...

Perhaps bringing in the homicide unit is a nod to the influential family’s wishes, even though LE has made it pretty clear it appears to be a murder/suicide.

 

[Satchie]

I am really suspicious as to why the paper proclaimed this was a murder-suicide before the bodies were hardly cold. Seems VERY odd, considering a full investigation has not been completed. Very odd.

Also wanted to add, although I can only speak for myself, a murder-suicide seems more likely than a double murder-staged suicide probably because there's just not the level of political/financial conspiracy theories in Canada: no JFKs, Marilyn Munroes, Princess Di's, Seth Rich's. We're not worried about the Mafia, or arms dealers, we forget we even have a secret service, the police are mostly trusted, etc, etc. Things are pretty much what they appear to be in public life.

The biggest eyeopeners have been the secret violence inside the lives of seemingly upstanding people: Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka, Colonel Russell Wiliams, Dellen Millard, those are the big eyeopeners for me. So I guess that has conditioned me to assume someone could do something quite unexpected, in spite of his public persona.

 

[dotr]

I don’t understand that dotr. Doesn’t make sense...

The suggestion made imo, is that they know at least one homicide occurred, but it is still undetermined if both people were murdered .
speculation.

 

[LaborDayRN]

And Rebecca Zahau’s naked hanging death labeled suicide by LE in San Diego is being disputed by family in a lawsuit. There are signs that point to murder.

This is the case I've been thinking about.

 

[Jennifer17]

In well to do and wealthy families, domestic violence is often covered up by the family. I am not saying that this was the case here, but you never can know.

 

[otto]

I'm having difficulty understanding the reason for a murder-suicide. Was divorce on the table? Was one terminally ill? If it's just about money, someone with billions should not have too much to worry about since there will always be several millions for a couple of seventy year olds to use for the remainder of natural lives.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Compared to Canada, the USA is the small country. Canada does not have a problem with "fake news".

This may well be a murder suicide, and police are being very cautious to pursue a homicide theory to satisfy the family.

We're actually pretty close.
Canada is 9.98 million sq km
Ranked 3rd. 2% more than United States

United States is 9.83 million sq km
Ranked 4th.
Don't forget Alaska and Hawaii.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Canada/United-States/Geography

I think the OP may have been referencing population though. US - 2015 = 321.2 million
Canada = 35.8 million

 

[Satchie]

Toronto is a major city, a techno hub. Not small at all. Very cosmo, and progressive.

Yes, but in terms of the media, it's still boring old Toronto the Good.

Here's some top stories competing with the news about the Shermans:

*One person seriously injured in Trinity-Bellwoods collision (CP 24)
*Honest Ed's is gone, but the Bathurst and Bloor holiday turkey giveaway lives on (CBC Toronto)
*Last Dance: With Caddy's closing, another Toronto strip club bites the dust (Sun)
*Lack of legal protection for police who administer naloxone worries some Ontario forces (Globe)

Again, my point is there's nothing suspicious to me about some of the Toronto media going ahead and publishing rumours.

 

[Satchie]

We're actually pretty close.
Canada is 9.98 million sq km
Ranked 3rd. 2% more than United States

United States is 9.83 million sq km
Ranked 4th.
Don't forget Alaska and Hawaii.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Canada/United-States/Geography

I think the OP may have been referencing population though. US - 2015 = 321.2 million
Canada + 35.8 million

Yes, sorry, in terms of the number of crimes, etc, it's population that I was referring to. We're smaller than Poland, bigger than Morocco.

 

[ttcRider]

Yes, but in terms of the media, it's still boring old Toronto the Good.

Here's some top stories competing with the news about the Shermans:

*One person seriously injured in Trinity-Bellwoods collision (CP 24)
*Honest Ed's is gone, but the Bathurst and Bloor holiday turkey giveaway lives on (CBC Toronto)
*Last Dance: With Caddy's closing, another Toronto strip club bites the dust (Sun)
*Lack of legal protection for police who administer naloxone worries some Ontario forces (Globe)

Again, my point is there's nothing suspicious to me about some of the Toronto media going ahead and publishing rumours.

LOL good point.

 

[Kilr0y]

Snipped for focus and BBM

http://www.kare11.com/mobile/article/news/search-warrants-detail-orono-murder-suicide/471988015

https://www.google.com/amp/www.bost...2015/02/brockton_woman_child_found_hanged?amp

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...urder-suicide-ruled-medical-examiner-s-office


Suicide rates highest among elderly males.
https://newsletter.samhsa.gov/2016/02/02/preventing-suicide-among-seniors/

At that level of wealth, there is very deliberate and extensive estate planning. Their assets would be held in a trust, and changes are not as simple as an addendum to a will.

I'm sorry, I would like to believe in ninja assassins but my money is on a simple murder suicide.


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

I applaud you especially for the Chicago Tribune case. That hits all the marks of this case! Check the article below that specifically remarks on the rarity of murder by hanging in murder-suicide. It is unquestionable that the murder suicide explanation is a statistical long shot in the grand scheme of things.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21464696/

I still stick with the argument that statistically double murder is far more likely. Let's say this very bizarre type of murder-suicide is seen in 1 out of 1,000 cases of murder-suicide. Then, let's say that there are about 999 legitimate motives someone would have for killing a billionaire. Each of these motives involve an unlikely double murder with odds of about 1 out of 1,000. The fact is there is only ONE explanation involving murder-suicide, and it is a strange and unlikely one at that. Collectively, the many, many motives for murdering a billionaire greatly outweigh the probability that this was a very strange murder-suicide.

 

[clearskies1]

The family statement: "Our parents shared an enthusiasm for life and commitment to their family and community totally inconsistent with the rumors regrettably circulated in the media as to the circumstances surrounding their deaths."

What strikes me is what's not said -- no mention of their parents love for each other.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Yes, but in terms of the media, it's still boring old Toronto the Good.

Here's some top stories competing with the news about the Shermans:

*One person seriously injured in Trinity-Bellwoods collision (CP 24)
*Honest Ed's is gone, but the Bathurst and Bloor holiday turkey giveaway lives on (CBC Toronto)
*Last Dance: With Caddy's closing, another Toronto strip club bites the dust (Sun)
*Lack of legal protection for police who administer naloxone worries some Ontario forces (Globe)

Again, my point is there's nothing suspicious to me about some of the Toronto media going ahead and publishing rumours.

Lucky you! Boring (in terms of crime) is wonderful!

 

[Kilr0y]

An absolutely fundamental question has yet to be pondered on this forum. If one discounts the murder-suicide explanation (just for the sake of critical thinking), the question arises of why this was a DOUBLE murder instead of just the murder of the billionaire Barry Sherman or just the wife Honey Sherman.

What motives would exist that would require the murder of BOTH Barry Sherman and Honey Sherman? If this were strictly related to the pharmaceutical business, then why not ONLY murder Barry Sherman? The same logic can be applied to many different hypothetical motives. The fact that this was a double murder of both husband and wife should narrow down the list of actual motives from the ones that are not explainable through the death of both parties.

My first example would have been the changing of the couple's Will where perhaps someone was being cut out of the Will. If both Barry and his wife had control over changes to the Will, then it would be necessary for both of them to be murdered before any change were finalized. This is only one example in a long line of possible explanations. Since this man was a billionaire, the list of motives is especially long and healthy. Any one of these particular motives may seem like a long shot, but this also was a long shot as a murder-suicide as well. This would have been one of the strangest murder-suicides of all time, so collectively the double murder explanations outnumber the murder-suicide explanations in both quantity and likelihood.

 

[Jennifer17]

I applaud you especially for the Chicago Tribune case. That hits all the marks of this case! Check the article below that specifically remarks on the rarity of murder by hanging in murder-suicide. It is unquestionable that the murder suicide explanation is a statistical long shot in the grand scheme of things.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21464696/

I still stick with the argument that statistically double murder is far more likely. Let's say this very bizarre type of murder-suicide is seen in 1 out of 1,000 cases of murder-suicide. Then, let's say that there are about 999 legitimate motives someone would have for killing a billionaire. Each of these motives involve an unlikely double murder with odds of about 1 out of 1,000. The fact is there is only ONE explanation involving murder-suicide, and it is a strange and unlikely one at that. Collectively, the many, many motives for murdering a billionaire greatly outweigh the probability that this was a very strange murder-suicide.

You are ignoring the greater statistical evidence that men murder their wives and then commit suicide, regardless of whether they are billionaires or not.

 

[Websleuthbc]

I applaud you especially for the Chicago Tribune case. That hits all the marks of this case! Check the article below that specifically remarks on the rarity of murder by hanging in murder-suicide. It is unquestionable that the murder suicide explanation is a statistical long shot in the grand scheme of things.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21464696/

I still stick with the argument that statistically double murder is far more likely. Let's say this very bizarre type of murder-suicide is seen in 1 out of 1,000 cases of murder-suicide. Then, let's say that there are about 999 legitimate motives someone would have for killing a billionaire. Each of these motives involve an unlikely double murder with odds of about 1 out of 1,000. The fact is there is only ONE explanation involving murder-suicide, and it is a strange and unlikely one at that. Collectively, the many, many motives for murdering a billionaire greatly outweigh the probability that this was a very strange murder-suicide.

statistically these cases are overwhelmingly murder-suicide spousal related....... but just because it's 90% - arbitrary number - that doesn't mean this isn't one of the 10%. and demographics/enemies/etc. probably make this less likely than average case.

google what % of married women are killed by spouse/partner/ex-H or BF vs. non-family members?