Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #1

[zencompass]

I respect his philanthropy a great deal. It's very admirable, but I resist the notion that it defines you as a good person.
He wasn't legally bound to carry over the original agreement from the first company to Apotex, but in my humble opinion, I think he should have honoured it. I think that's what you do for family, and especially for 4 kids who's lives were in shambles. Later in life they did reconnect, and he did support them financially, but I think they would have faired much better to have been supported in their childhood, given jobs, and a percentage of the company. With everything else I'm also reading, he just doesn't sound that peachy.

None of this ultimately matters, I'm not passing judgement on the victims, just stating my observations, and how I'm reading the environment. Whatever happened to them, it's heinous, and undeserved in any way. The cousins sound very dark and quite capable of this. If it ends up being suicide, I'd be curious to figure out what drove him to it. I don't believe Honey would have been a willing participant. JMO.

Dear Grey-St.

I agree wholeheartedly with your post.

There seems to have been terrible rage from both directions concerning the lawsuit.

I don't understand the rage and feuding. Could there not have been a compromise or a settlement of some kind? Does everything have to have a lawsuit for someone to win everything? I don't get it.

Not saying this had anything to do with the murders. But honestly, I do not understand this.

I do feel sorry for the Winter sons. From what I've read, they had some rights with the Empire company but when it was sold, their "protection" evaporated.

If Barry Sherman could lend 100 million to D'Angelo, why not throw a settlement of a few million towards the cousins? Just my opinion.

From this article:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle37355332/

"The legal fight turned ugly, with allegations flying that Mr. Sherman had plotted to kill Mr. Winter and that he used handouts to control the cousins. Mr. Sherman hit back by calling in their loans and moving to seize their houses. The suit finally ended last September when Ontario Superior Court Justice Kenneth Hood threw out the case, ruling that "the claimed interest in Apotex was wishful thinking, and beyond fanciful."

 

[JLD333]

I don’t know if this was ever cleared up, but in regard to COD, it sounds like “ligature strangulation” (or neck compression) is how a hanging death would be classified.

http://www.iosrjournals.org/iosr-jdms/papers/Vol13-issue5/Version-1/T013518487.pdf

From the above link: “Hanging is a form of ligature strangulation...”

And it also states, “Partial hanging is almost always suicidal in nature.”

Just thought this was interesting! Still a little on the fence but leaning towards murder/suicide provoked by legal troubles or marital issues.


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[Tighthead]

Also another file found that ended on Dec 15th and closed yesterday. Apotex Inc vs Eli Lilly, Inc. Docket number 37368. Supreme Court of Canada.

http://www.scc-csc.ca/case-dossier/info/dock-regi-eng.aspx?cas=37368

The two litigation matters could be related based on the coincidental timing.

It looks like Apotex was appealing Court of Appeal judgments to the SCC. The Court declined to hear them. Pretty routine stuff I would expect considering the litigious nature of the pharma/patent world.

 

[Tighthead]

Others who might be about to speak? This guy was about to be in court for something very serious I believe.



Interesting in deed.

.

Nobody except the lawyers speak in SCC matters so I wonder why you believe that. There are no witnesses.

Also, the matter was not about to be heard. Leave was denied, none of which involves any sort of hearing. The vast majority of leave applications are denied and a seasoned appellate would have expected denial.

Had leave been granted the actual hearing hearing would still be a ways off.

 

[kiwi50]

https://omny.fm/shows/bill-kelly-show/what-questions-remain-after-the-murder-of-honey-an
In this interview it was said that there had been staff present (did not specify if meaning at time bodies were found, but presume in the time frame from when anyone last saw them) but they had not been down to the pool.
From that it would seem they had not noticed anything strange upstairs.

When police state Honey was killed elsewhere, it could simply mean on the ground around the pool.

Still on the fence here re murder/ suicide or murder, if murder possibly happened as they arrived home, could be as simple as killers running in as the garage door opened.

I hope they have some answers before the funerals.

 

[Jennifer17]

<modsnip>

Have LE declared that it was double murder?

 

[Kilr0y]

Have LE declared that it was double murder?

I think at this point with the further details about the bodies at the scene it is next to unfathomable that anyone would still believe murder-suicide.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

I think at this point with the further details about the bodies at the scene it is next to unfathomable that anyone would still believe murder-suicide.

Go ahead and keep believing if you want but there is a growing mountain of evidence and proof that says double murder. And I'm not just making a statistical argument anymore. Further facts about the scene make it that much more likely to have been double murder.

If you still believe murder-suicide, I dunno that anything could convince you of otherwise.

Exactly what details about the bodies make you certain that it's murder?

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[Researchnut]

This thread is so long that I'm not sure if anyone has posted the link to some of the litigations that Bernard Sherman was involved in.

https://www.canlii.org/en/#search/text=Bernard Sherman

 

[Sillybilly]

Websleuths is fact based, so please stop with the conspiracy theory chatter. It simply is not allowed at Websleuths.

While members are allowed to have an opinion and speculate, that opinion / speculation must be based on some known fact that can be backed up by links to MSM / LE or other allowable source.

Just because someone has read something on another conspiracy site or another forum does not make it fact.

ETA: This is a big-fat-admin-told-ya-so-post that says any member posting disrespectfully towards other members will receive a timeout to read The Rules.

:tyou:

 

[Kilr0y]

Have you all not seen the Toronto Sun report about the men's belts and jackets??? That's not unsubstantiated. They vet these sources.

And as for the I told you so... I mean... I did...

 

[human]

Dear Grey-St.

I agree wholeheartedly with your post.

There seems to have been terrible rage from both directions concerning the lawsuit.

I don't understand the rage and feuding. Could there not have been a compromise or a settlement of some kind? Does everything have to have a lawsuit for someone to win everything? I don't get it.

Not saying this had anything to do with the murders. But honestly, I do not understand this.

I do feel sorry for the Winter sons. From what I've read, they had some rights with the Empire company but when it was sold, their "protection" evaporated.

If Barry Sherman could lend 100 million to D'Angelo, why not throw a settlement of a few million towards the cousins? Just my opinion.

From this article:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle37355332/

"The legal fight turned ugly, with allegations flying that Mr. Sherman had plotted to kill Mr. Winter and that he used handouts to control the cousins. Mr. Sherman hit back by calling in their loans and moving to seize their houses. The suit finally ended last September when Ontario Superior Court Justice Kenneth Hood threw out the case, ruling that "the claimed interest in Apotex was wishful thinking, and beyond fanciful."

At least two of the cousins were drug addicts from a young age.,Barry tried to help with that.

Would you give drug addicts part of your company? And a drug company no less!

Barry gave them homes, money. Not enough.

It is like selling a car to a friend. Something goes wrong with it and it is your fault.

Or there are people that if you repair a motor for them and something else goes wrong with the car, it is your fault. You own it forever.

 

[anonypotomous]

Big fat told-you-so to those here who were buying into the spoon-fed murder-suicide announcement. I repeated it adamantly early on and it is looking to be certain to have NOT been murder-suicide. This is what I said all along.

I'll see your "big fat told-you-so" and raise you a big fat side eye - and the fact that you're new and this is the only case you're commenting on. :thinking:

 

[Tighthead]

Have you all not seen the Toronto Sun report about the men's belts and jackets??? That's not unsubstantiated. They vet these sources.

And as for the I told you so... I mean... I did...

Who specifically substantiated it?

It looked to me like an unconfirmed anonymous source. Let me know specifically how I am wrong on that.

 

[whitelilac]

I would like to know if they were out on the day they died, if that can be established by having been seen somewhere, and if they were wearing the same clothes they were found in.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Have you all not seen the Toronto Sun report about the men's belts and jackets??? That's not unsubstantiated. They vet these sources.

And as for the I told you so... I mean... I did...

Ummm... you are aware that it is not uncommon for those intent on suicide by hanging to bind their arms?

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[Kilr0y]

<modsnip> This was unlikely to be murder-suicide just from the beginning. People tried to make the facts fit murder-suicide awkwardly because the police seemed to obfuscate things at the beginning.

But now it really seems unavoidable that this was murder. I'm basing this on facts, logic, and sources. I was just amazed at how a forum I expected to be all about deduction turned out to eat up the shaky line from the police and stop really thinking logically and deductively about the crime scene and facts.

Why murder them both? Honey seemed so innocent. That is the last true question...why intentionally murder them both???

 

[human]

Ummm... you are aware that it is not uncommon for those intent on suicide by hanging to bind their arms?

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I am unaware of that.

I don’t think lawsuits phased Barry one bit. Another day, another lawsuit.

If something was criminal, he would be out while lawyers worked on it.

Honey apparently changed her hair color a lot?

To me, it does not sound like she would be suicidal. Too much great stuff in her life. She sounds like she embraced it.

I wonder if he was suffering from some kind of cognitve thing. I use the scientifc medical term “thing” because I had a friend whose husband who was in his 70’s started becoming paranoid and mean. Hardening of the arteries or something.

Anyway, I wonder if Barry had any mean changes? He sounds like a curmudgeon awhile ago in that article where they interviewed Honey in the home

 

[liz b.]

I don't know how observant Honey and Barry were, but for more orthodox Jews, suicide is an anathema. I know that in some cases it is prohibited to bury a suicide in a Jewish cemetery . Some conservative (in a religious, not political sense) rabbis will refuse to officiate at the funerals of suicides. Perhaps this might somewhat explain the family's vigorous rejection of LE's " suicide/homicide news leak A homicide disguised as a fake suicide/homicide might have been the ultimate insult, even after death. jmo

 

[matou]

I have a feeling LE won't update on this case until after the funeral.