Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #1

[otto]

Exactly. We all assume it was Barry who murdered Honey. It could be that Honey murdered Barry.

"As for the possibility of a murder-suicide, which police have not yet confirmed, the Toronto Sun indicated that police sources believe Honey may have been killed first. “Sources close to the case believe Honey may have been killed in a secondary location in the $6.9 million Old Colony Rd. house and then moved to the location where she was later found with her deceased husband,” reported the Toronto newspaper. The Sun reported that police sources say there was no evidence anyone else had been in the home or that there was forced entry."

http://heavy.com/news/2017/12/honey-sherman-dead-death-barry-wife-murder/

 

[Hazel]

Google Maps: https://goo.gl/maps/jK6mFgrMaBk

 

[otto]

This was reported early on. I’m not sure if it was a direct LE quote or a “source.” But they haven’t denied it. We only know about the jackets and belts from a “source” so we go with whatever we can, I guess.

True, but there's no reason to go with bathrobe belts, or to doubt that they were found in the pool area, that they died of neck compression, and that they were found hanging.

“Sources say investigators found the Shermans, side by side, in their windowless pool room, each with a men’s leather belt wrapped around their necks and tied to the pool railing. Both had on jackets that were pulled ‘behind their backs’ and rolled down over their arms. It is believed the camera in the pool area had been disconnected,” reported the newspaper."

http://heavy.com/news/2017/12/honey-sherman-dead-death-barry-wife-murder/

 

[Lilibet]

If it's not been proven, it should stop being posted as fact here.

Then all we know is that LE said they both died from ligature. That hasn’t been “proven” either. “Sources” (presumably vetted) have given the rest of the information to MSM. Not “proven.” Therefore, we might as well shut down the thread. We do the best we can with what MSM gives us, per WS TOS. As we all know, MSM can get it wrong, but that’s not our problem until we know it’s wrong.

 

[otto]

If it's not been proven, it should stop being posted as fact here.

Nothing has been proven until there is a trial, and there won't be a trial in a murder-suicide. Instead, we have to rely on information that is published in the news. I don't see any reason to believe that, for example, they were shot and found in their beds. They were hanging and they were in the pool area. That is a fact that we can accept. If we think that Canadian news is "fake news", then we cannot even be sure that the couple is dead because the only source is news.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

I'm still leaning very strongly towards someone seeking revenge on the Shermans and wanting to humiliate Barry, devastate his loved ones and destroy his reputation. Timing is everything. I say the murders and scenario were planned, and it's no coincidence that the evil deed was done fairly soon after a big lawsuit was lost and before the holidays. If it was suicide, Barry wouldn't have picked one of the most painful ways to do it, nor would it have been staged as it was.

Hanging is not painful. You pass out very quickly.

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[Lilibet]

True, but there's no reason to go with bathrobe belts, or to doubt that they were found in the pool area, that they died of neck compression, and that they were found hanging.

“Sources say investigators found the Shermans, side by side, in their windowless pool room, each with a men’s leather belt wrapped around their necks and tied to the pool railing. Both had on jackets that were pulled ‘behind their backs’ and rolled down over their arms. It is believed the camera in the pool area had been disconnected,” reported the newspaper."

http://heavy.com/news/2017/12/honey-sherman-dead-death-barry-wife-murder/

Bolded and underlined by me

Why are you saying this in response to my post? I have made none of these assertions. In fact, I have avoided making any assertions, except mentioning what has been said in MSM by either LE or “sources” (presumably vetted). I don’t understand your response to my post.

ETA: Or perhaps this was meant to be a general statement bouncing off my post? If so, I agree.

 

[Summerfun]

Certainly would.

The body which showed rigor was draped in grey velvet, which would be Barry.

 

[Jennifer17]

The body which showed rigor was draped in grey velvet, which would be Barry.

I don't understand why you think the colour of the blanket would identify them.

 

[Grey-St]

To me suicide is far easier to deal with than say an accidental death. The person went out on their own terms the way I look at it. The problem with the family hiring private investigators is that these investigators will say exactly what the family wants to hear and can draw their investigation, and their pay checks out for years. They are not impartial.

As for people sleuthing, I've got no problem with that. However when people bring up far fetched scenarios like mafia hits, without an ounce of evidence, I have a problem with that. Too many people watching movies. No evidence of an intruder, a struggle, or an entry point? Lets say it was a super assassin. Anybody check where Burke Ramsey was that night? :thinking:

rbbm. I disagree, andreww. There are many incredibly reputable private investigators out there, many of whom are former members of LE. There's no reason to suggest they can't be impartial, they aren't family members. They are just as impartial as any other detective working the case. It's about having another set of eyes (preferably someone who isn't overworked, case-loaded, and likely to rush to conclusions as historically LE sometimes does), and someone to assist with getting to the core of the "why", especially if and when TPS close the case.

There was a PI who was interviewed about this. He said in his private practice he often comes to the same conclusions as local LE. It's just about reassurance, especially in times like these.

 

[gregjrichards]

The body which showed rigor was draped in grey velvet, which would be Barry.

Yes this is very likely Barry, he appeared to a lot heavier weight than Honey.

 

[otto]

The only certain fact is the cause of death was ligature neck compression, which is consistent with rumors of hanging.

I think the other rumors can be discussed, but I think they do need to be regularly identified as rumors, or alleged facts, during the discussion, by going back to the original. For example, the rumor that Honey' body may have been moved doesn't allege it was moved far, or from another floor, etc.

If the newspaper is citing a police source, and another police source does not confirm the information, that doesn't make it untrue. It only means that one police officer gave some information whereas another did not.

We are accepting that there is no evidence of forced entry from the same source that is credited for stating that the wife was killed elsewhere in the house and moved to the pool area. Do we also disbelieve that there were no signs of forced entry?

"As for the possibility of a murder-suicide, which police have not yet confirmed, the Toronto Sun indicated that police sources believe Honey may have been killed first. “Sources close to the case believe Honey may have been killed in a secondary location in the $6.9 million Old Colony Rd. house and then moved to the location where she was later found with her deceased husband,” reported the Toronto newspaper. The Sun reported that police sources say there was no evidence anyone else had been in the home or that there was forced entry."

http://heavy.com/news/2017/12/honey-sherman-dead-death-barry-wife-murder/

 

[otto]

(respectfully bolded by me)

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, it looks like the underground parking + indoor lap pool are located underneath the tennis court in the backyard.

The indoor pools being at the far back, would have made it virtually impossible for any neighbours to be able to hear anything.

Floor Plans: http://media.houssmax.ca/201711/29/5a1f32afd3797.pdf

Yes, the tennis court is built over the underground garage/pool.

 

[JDG]

Today, Honey Shermans vehicle was impounded by TPS. They aren't saying much but it was towed away today.

 

[otto]

Not necessarily. Somebody could have kept Barry alive to try and extort something from him. JMO

If there was extortion, she would be kept alive to give him incentive to comply.

 

[Inthedetails]

Today, Honey Shermans vehicle was impounded by TPS. They aren't saying much but it was towed away today.

How do you know?

Many here speculated she was hurt in the garage, and perhaps this is an indication of that.

 

[otto]

Bolded and underlined by me

Why are you saying this in response to my post? I have made none of these assertions. In fact, I have avoided making any assertions, except mentioning what has been said in MSM by either LE or “sources” (presumably vetted). I don’t understand your response to my post.

ETA: Or perhaps this was meant to be a general statement bouncing off my post? If so, I agree.

Sorry - have been catching up on ten pages and may have hit the wrong "reply with quote".

 

[Lilibet]

How do you know?

Many here speculated she was hurt in the garage, and perhaps this is an indication of that.

I believe JDG lives in the neighborhood.

 

[Grace.212]

Investigators have found no security cameras inside or outside the home.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-honey-sherman-funeral-1.4458576

 

[Lilibet]

Sorry - have been catching up on ten pages and may have hit the wrong "reply with quote".

No worries. It happens. I was just a little taken aback thinking you were replying to me. All is well.