Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #1

[zencompass]

I've just learned that they've recently welcomed a new grandchild to the family.

 

[Satchie]

I agree that it is quite mysterious.

The post mortem examinations will reveal clues. I hope the police have answers soon.

But will people believe them? The terrible thing is, there's no note.

I can think of a few cases where it has taken a year or longer for police to close the file on an apparent suicide or suspicious death, because it's so hard to prove anything 100% without a note. Even then, when police are confident beyond a reasonable doubt, some people will continue to doubt.

I think the TPS communications team are huddling over this and will adopt the only strategy that could possibly work for them in this situation:

* completely shut down the internal leaks
* continue to remain non-commital with the media: no suspects sought but further tests awaited, investigation ongoing.

This will starve the case of the details it needs to stay alive in the media and it will fade from view. They will wait it out a long time before discussing the definitive findings with the family, get them to agree not to make any statements to the press, declare the cause of death and the case closed without releasing any details.

 

[zencompass]

Dear Satchie,

I always look forward to your posts - not only are they insightful and compassionate - but I learn from them !

Absolutely agree with everything you've said.

I don't think we will hear of the results of the post mortem examinations. Whatever clues were left on the bodies - possible bruising, marks of strangulation that don't fit with the hanging marks, skin under fingernails, etc. likely will stay sealed . Unless of course there are charges of murder and an upcoming trial where the results will form part of the evidence.

As I understand it, the adult children were not immediately made aware of the situation. Had they had time, I don't believe we would have heard as much as we have, or anything at all, from the police and the media.

What an unimaginable horrid experience these family members must be going through !

I certainly agree with their children's statement that the possibility of "murder-suicide" should not have been mentioned. There had not even been post mortem examinations.

My heart is saddened at what these adult children are all going through. I know that their parents were legacies in the community and philanthropists but the children's statement is from the heart. These people were their mother and father.

Tragic situation all around.

 

[kiwi50]

Id like to know how often the personal trainer came to the house, and why he was so anxious to be allowed inside, had he witnessed a previous altercation?
Honey was full of holiday plans I can't imagine her suiciding

 

[zencompass]

I don't judge or blame the police about the statement made of the possibility of "murder-suicide".

Just that I agree that "murder-suicide" should not have been mentioned. Especially since there had been no note and certainly because the post mortem examinations had not yet been conducted.

I think this is going to be a lengthy and thorough investigation.

 

[Lilibet]

Would it be possible to hang yourself from that railing while sitting?

Yes. People have hung themselves in a seated position. Robin Williams.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/r...ed-suicide-hanging-himself-police-say-n178771

 

[LaborDayRN]

Aged 70 and 75. Wonder if either of them had recently gotten a diagnosis which seemed hopeless ? Why were they selling their home ? Really strange case. jmo

As for the selling of the home, given their advancing ages perhaps they were looking for a single story dwelling. Being that it's been reported to be closer to downtown, perhaps a high rise penthouse. Something with an elevator to get to the unit and a large single story dwelling. Or maybe just a free standing single story.

 

[liz b.]

As for the selling of the home, given their advancing ages perhaps they were looking for a single story dwelling. Being that it's been reported to be closer to downtown, perhaps a high rise penthouse. Something with an elevator to get to the unit and a large single story dwelling. Or maybe just a free standing single story.

Yes, could well be. I just get the sense that a recent event caused their demise. jmo

 

[Jax49]

Yes. People have hung themselves in a seated position. Robin Williams.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/r...ed-suicide-hanging-himself-police-say-n178771

Thank you. I just kept thinking wouldn't the person stand up. What a horrible way to die.

 

[Jennifer17]

As for the selling of the home, given their advancing ages perhaps they were looking for a single story dwelling. Being that it's been reported to be closer to downtown, perhaps a high rise penthouse. Something with an elevator to get to the unit and a large single story dwelling. Or maybe just a free standing single story.

I have wondered if one them had recently got an Alzheimer's diagnosis?

 

[LaborDayRN]

I have wondered if one them had recently got an Alzheimer's diagnosis?

I'm leaning towards this being a home invasion, murder for hire or just someone really angry with the couple. I do see how it could also be a murder suicide, it's just not my gut feeling I guess. Time will tell. I feel terrible for their children and grandchildren.

 

[kiwi50]

Yes, could well be. I just get the sense that a recent event caused their demise. jmo

I agree, and I believe VERY recent.. we may find From the autopsy, that Honey drowned.

 

[gregjrichards]

As for the selling of the home, given their advancing ages perhaps they were looking for a single story dwelling. Being that it's been reported to be closer to downtown, perhaps a high rise penthouse. Something with an elevator to get to the unit and a large single story dwelling. Or maybe just a free standing single story.

They were building a new home nearer downtown Toronto.

 

[LaborDayRN]

They were building a new home nearer downtown Toronto.

Hi Greg! I guess I should have added that in my post. That's the home I'm thinking may be single story. I was replying to a post wondering why they were selling their current home. Just speculation on my part. I know the older my husband and I get, the happier we are that we have a single story.

 

[whitelilac]

I'm leaning towards this being a home invasion, murder for hire or just someone really angry with the couple. I do see how it could also be a murder suicide, it's just not my gut feeling I guess. Time will tell. I feel terrible for their children and grandchildren.

My gut feeling...so far...is that this is a very sophisticated hit. And if so, he/they, whoever gained entry into that home without being spotted on security cameras.
On the other hand, would it not have been easier to kill them outside the home....manipulating their vehicle, or being ambushed some how? I don't know.

This tragedy makes me think of a murder for hire in my neighborhood....a prominent lawyer who had just won a major fraud case was shot in his driveway with a long range rifle by a sniper. He lived in a cul de sac...no vehicles had entered...nothing...the killer has never been caught. He most likely climbed up the canyon behind the home and waited.

The Sherman's property....is it extensive? Lots of trees etc, the property accessible from the back? Could someone have entered from the roof or wherever?

With plans for Florida, a brand new new grandchild, a new home closer to downtown.....it's difficult to consider murder suicide or double suicide....particularly the manner used and the location.
But who knows if there was real trouble in their relationship that caused a sudden deadly event.

I feel so sorry for their family......

 

[possumheart]

I have wondered if one them had recently got an Alzheimer's diagnosis?

Or Barry’s prostate cancer returned. Highly unlikely after such a long remission.

 

[Lilibet]

Or Barry’s prostate cancer returned. Highly unlikely after such a long remission.

That was my thought too. My fil’s prostate cancer returned well over 10 years after surgery. It can happen. Those little cells are sneaky.

 

[Kilr0y]

My gut feeling...so far...is that this is a very sophisticated hit. And if so, he/they, whoever gained entry into that home without being spotted on security cameras.
On the other hand, would it not have been easier to kill them outside the home....manipulating their vehicle, or being ambushed some how? I don't know.

This tragedy makes me think of a murder for hire in my neighborhood....a prominent lawyer who had just won a major fraud case was shot in his driveway with a long range rifle by a sniper. He lived in a cul de sac...no vehicles had entered...nothing...the killer has never been caught. He most likely climbed up the canyon behind the home and waited.

The Sherman's property....is it extensive? Lots of trees etc, the property accessible from the back? Could someone have entered from the roof or wherever?

With plans for Florida, a brand new new grandchild, a new home closer to downtown.....it's difficult to consider murder suicide or double suicide....particularly the manner used and the location.
But who knows if there was real trouble in their relationship that caused a sudden deadly event.

I feel so sorry for their family......

Completely agree. We are not even sure about security cameras existing. This house was supposed to be not as crazy as a billionaire mansion could be. Who knows if there even was a security camera. Security system, yes, I am sure. This man had too many enemies and too many connections at the highest levels of politics and society for murder to be unlikely. This could relate to high society things that we small folk are not really privy to, and the hit could have been highly professional. The motives are a mile long.

I also keep repeating that suicide is done in a place that makes one comfortable, and that I HIGHLY doubt that this billionaire would choose the railing of his basement lap pool. Forgetting even having to drag his wife and hang her...he would not have done it down there. The bodies being found in that basement is a strong sign of foul play against both of them.

 

[gdalton]

The Sherman's property....is it extensive? Lots of trees etc, the property accessible from the back? Could someone have entered from the roof or wherever?
.

Looking at Google Maps in satellite view, it is surrounded by other houses in the middle of the block.
There is a 6 car underground parking garage mentioned in the RE listing...which seems to be on the same level as the lap pool.

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/50...496d4556700b01b!8m2!3d43.758084!4d-79.3812215

 

[Alice Ramnit]

I am SO confused!
Occams razor rings true. But in this situation I cannot believe that such generous people could abscond from their value system in such a huge way!
You either value life or you don't! Same as I never kick my dog...no matter how angry I am. It is just something that I have never given myself permission to do!
I just cannot imagine a murder/suicide scenario.