Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #1

[Lilibet]

Have you all not seen the Toronto Sun report about the men's belts and jackets??? That's not unsubstantiated. They vet these sources.

And as for the I told you so... I mean... I did...

And LE has not substantiated this information per this post.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...d-Toronto-15-Dec-2017&p=13823219#post13823219

Again: When contacted by DailyMail.com, a spokesperson for the Toronto Police said that the department could not confirm any of the claims made by these sources.

The Daily Mail got its story from the Toronto Sun. Therefore, the Toronto’s Sun story has not been confirmed by LE.

 

[gdalton]

The Apotex appeal was dismissed with costs on Thursday the 14th.

Apotex Inc v Canada (Minister of Health) (SCC Docket: 37593)
Date of decision: December 14, 2017

It was concerning Apo-Trazodone (or APO T50) a common generic insomnia drug.
Info about the drug here:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro...drug-is-little-known-antidepressant/index.htm

I wonder how big of a deal this was.
Maybe nobody was worried about hearing from him later that day because they figured he was upset?

 

[Tighthead]

And LE has not substantiated this information per this post.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...d-Toronto-15-Dec-2017&p=13823219#post13823219

Again: When contacted by DailyMail.com, a spokesperson for the Toronto Police said that the department could not confirm any of the claims made by these sources.

The Daily Mail got its story from the Toronto Sun. Therefore, the Toronto’s Sun story has not been confirmed by LE.

It could well be correct, but it is, at this point, unsubstantiated. Apparently Warmington was on the radio talking ropes not belts.

I haveno problem with unnamed sources. That’s the game. I will say that Joe W. is one of the least credible writers in the GTA.

 

[Tighthead]

The Apotex appeal was dismissed with costs on Thursday the 14th.

Apotex Inc v Canada (Minister of Health) (SCC Docket: 37593)
Date of decision: December 14, 2017

It was concerning Apo-Trazodone (or APO T50) a common generic insomnia drug.
Info about the drug here:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro...drug-is-little-known-antidepressant/index.htm

I wonder how big of a deal this was.
Maybe nobody was worried about hearing from him later that day because they figured he was upset?

Isn’t that just a dismissal on a leave application?

Still, if it was a really big deal it could be upsetting, but leave applications are longshots.

 

[human]

The Apotex appeal was dismissed with costs on Thursday the 14th.

Apotex Inc v Canada (Minister of Health) (SCC Docket: 37593)
Date of decision: December 14, 2017

It was concerning Apo-Trazodone (or APO T50) a common generic insomnia drug.
Info about the drug here:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro...drug-is-little-known-antidepressant/index.htm

I wonder how big of a deal this was.
Maybe nobody was worried about hearing from him later that day because they figured he was upset?

I don’t see anything weird or upsetting about a lawsuit. I take a generic drug and I asked the pharmacisf if there was a difference in the brand name and the generic.

She said that there is not supposed to be. She said that the brand names use all kinds of tricks to extend the patent life. For instance, she said that a brand name changed the size of a pill and they claimed it was a different drug and got a new patent.

All kinds of things in the world of drugs.

For imstance, drug companies own the research. Six months-drug ok. Nine months. Issues. 12 months. Deaths.

The company only publishes the six month reports. The lawsuits are much cheaper than the profits on the drugs

 

[Abundance]

http://www.metronews.ca/news/canada...ppened-inside-that-h.html?cq_ck=1513693246506

Good article about all the testing and procedures being done.
I have faith in LE that they will get to the bottom of this intrigue.
Motive is key whether murder-suicide or double homocide.
My thoughts are that LE may be holding back on interviews and statements before the memorial out of respect to the family.

 

[mr_chip72]

I live in the area. Seems like it wasn't any of the following home invasion, double suicide, etc. The fact that the doors were apparently locked seems troubling though.

 

[Gardenista]

Joe Warmington (Toronto Sun) on Bill Kelly Show...

https://omny.fm/shows/bill-kelly-show/what-questions-remain-after-the-murder-of-honey-an

He's the one who wrote that article, discussing this

Thank you for posting this. I found the entire interview at the link below. It is in the second half of the show--haven't listened to all of it yet, but he just started talking about the tweet.

https://omny.fm/shows/bill-kelly-show/the-mayors-townhall-and-honey-and-barry-sherman

 

[JayFriend]

At least two of the cousins were drug addicts from a young age.,Barry tried to help with that.

Would you give drug addicts part of your company? And a drug company no less!

Barry gave them homes, money. Not enough.

It is like selling a car to a friend. Something goes wrong with it and it is your fault.

Or there are people that if you repair a motor for them and something else goes wrong with the car, it is your fault. You own it forever.

Bingo! Wealthy drug addicts would have connections.This may well have been a hit in exchange for huge monetary rewards from the inheritance. No wonder LE is tight lipped.

 

[Tighthead]

Bingo! Wealthy drug addicts would have connections.This may well have been a hit in exchange for huge monetary rewards from the inheritance. No wonder LE is tight lipped.

Are you suggesting that the litigious cousins were in line to inherit?

That seems highly highly unlikely.

 

[mr_chip72]

I don't know how observant Honey and Barry were, but for more orthodox Jews, suicide is an anathema. I know that in some cases it is prohibited to bury a suicide in a Jewish cemetery . Some conservative (in a religious, not political sense) rabbis will refuse to officiate at the funerals of suicides. Perhaps this might somewhat explain the family's vigorous rejection of LE's " suicide/homicide news leak A homicide disguised as a fake suicide/homicide might have been the ultimate insult, even after death. jmo

No one would choose to live on Old Colony road that wasn't an observant Jew. Old Colony road draws a premium in pricing due to the proximity of the synagogue on the East end of the road. One street over on Forest Heights equivalent homes are often $1-2M less.

 

[Gardenista]

I live in the area. Seems like it wasn't any of the following home invasion, double suicide, etc. The fact that the doors were apparently locked seems troubling though.

In the interview I posted above, he says the staff was there but they never went down to the pool area. Wondering what they noticed.

 

[Tillicum]

I don't know how observant Honey and Barry were, but for more orthodox Jews, suicide is an anathema. I know that in some cases it is prohibited to bury a suicide in a Jewish cemetery . Some conservative (in a religious, not political sense) rabbis will refuse to officiate at the funerals of suicides. Perhaps this might somewhat explain the family's vigorous rejection of LE's " suicide/homicide news leak A homicide disguised as a fake suicide/homicide might have been the ultimate insult, even after death. jmo

Didn't Barry write that he didn't believe in God?

Found it.

Barry Sherman was on a family vacation in the Serengeti several years ago when he decided to jot down a few reflections on his life and career.

There is no God, no free will, no altruism and no morality, Mr. Sherman wrote in what he titled A Legacy of Thoughts. "I find no inconsistency in holding intellectually that life has no meaning, while at the same time being highly motivated to survive and to achieve," he added.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...ionize-canadas-drug-industry/article37355332/

 

[dotr]

No one would choose to live on Old Colony road that wasn't an observant Jew. Old Colony road draws a premium in pricing due to the proximity of the synagogue on the East end of the road. One street over on Forest Heights equivalent homes are often $1-2M less.

Welcome to Ws mr_chip72, thanks for joining us here!
Thinking that Honey may have had a greater interest in religion than Barry, imo.

In terms of their participation in Jewish religious life, Rubenstein said Honey was “more traditional and Barry was more secular. He prided himself on his atheism. Barry might not have been a synagogue-goer, but in the best sense of the word he was a mensch. They both did the right thing in terms of helping very, very, worthy causes.”

read more: https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/americas/1.829520

 

[Lilibet]

It could well be correct, but it is, at this point, unsubstantiated. Apparently Warmington was on the radio talking ropes not belts.

I haveno problem with unnamed sources. That’s the game. I will say that Joe W. is one of the least credible writers in the GTA.

Thanks for the added info. The point is that even though it could be correct and probably is, it’s clearly not enough to make a definite call yet or LE would do so.

Quotes from another article:

Other possibilities [in addition to murder-suicide] are that the deaths are a double-homicide or suicides, said former police officers consulted by the Star on Monday. The exact circumstances of death may also end up undetermined.

A key part of suspicious death investigations is keeping an open mind, said Mark Valois, also a former Toronto police homicide cop who is now director of academic training at the Canadian Tactical Officers Association.

BBM

http://www.metronews.ca/news/canada...ppened-inside-that-h.html?cq_ck=1513693246506

 

[dotr]

Not related, but perhaps also not unrelated, fwiw, speculation
https://www.cp24.com/news/synagogues-in-toronto-hamilton-montreal-receive-hate-mail-1.3728073.

 

[Montrealaise]

Dear Grey-St.

I agree wholeheartedly with your post.

There seems to have been terrible rage from both directions concerning the lawsuit.

I don't understand the rage and feuding. Could there not have been a compromise or a settlement of some kind? Does everything have to have a lawsuit for someone to win everything? I don't get it.

Not saying this had anything to do with the murders. But honestly, I do not understand this.

I do feel sorry for the Winter sons. From what I've read, they had some rights with the Empire company but when it was sold, their "protection" evaporated.

If Barry Sherman could lend 100 million to D'Angelo, why not throw a settlement of a few million towards the cousins? Just my opinion.

From this article:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle37355332/

"The legal fight turned ugly, with allegations flying that Mr. Sherman had plotted to kill Mr. Winter and that he used handouts to control the cousins. Mr. Sherman hit back by calling in their loans and moving to seize their houses. The suit finally ended last September when Ontario Superior Court Justice Kenneth Hood threw out the case, ruling that "the claimed interest in Apotex was wishful thinking, and beyond fanciful."

The Winter boys each received about $350,000 from their parents' estate. Their mother wanted them to be raised in the Jewish faith (she was a convert) and so she stipulated that they not be raised by relatives (odd: her relatives weren't Jewish but her husband's were, so why did she not want the boys to be raised by their father's family?) They were adopted by strangers who did not treat them well and used most of their inheritance for their living expenses - the boys squandered the remainder when they came of age. They have struggled as adults - Barry Sherman helped them by buying them houses and giving substantial amounts of cash - but I'm not sure that more money would be the answer to their problems.

Over the years, they have tried to settle but Barry always refused, referring to their lawsuit as extortion. The boys filed an appeal after they lost the lawsuit in September - I wonder, with Barry and Honey both gone, if the executors of the estate will be more willing to settle and give the boys a large amount just to close the file.

 

[Tillicum]

I have a feeling LE won't update on this case until after the funeral.

Do you think we'll get more leaks from "unnamed sources" before the funeral? Just the fact that things are leaked when they shouldn't be causes me to question the motive and truthfulness of the leak.

 

[anonypotomous]

Welcome to Ws mr_chip72, thanks for joining us here!
Thinking that Honey may have had a greater interest in religion than Barry, imo.

Honey Sherman, Chair of the Neuberger Holocaust Education Centre commented: “In the aftermath of the Shoah, many survivors rebuilt their lives here. They created families and nurtured communities. They infused, and many of them educated, a pluralistic civil society that is inclusive of all Canadians and welcoming to newcomers.”

https://jewishtoronto.com/news-media/musical-concert-honours-holocaust-survivor-educators

 

[matou]

Do you think we'll get more leaks from "unnamed sources" before the funeral? Just the fact that things are leaked when they shouldn't be causes me to question the motive and truthfulness of the leak.

There are always leaks. Joe Warmington from the Toronto Sun has regular contact with Toronto LE and has an excellent rapport with them for years. Steve Paiken, another journalist who I have complete respect for, deleted his tweet. Warmington referred to the tweet in his piece. Paiken posted the tweet as a direct quote from his source. Unfortunately, the wording of "noose tightening" happened to match what happened to the Shermans.

I believe LE will wait until after the funeral based on the wishes of the family at this point. If this is determined to be a murder-suicide, LE will release information but no other specific details. If there was in fact a police investigation on the Shermans for some reason, this will come out IMO.