Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #1

[Jennifer17]

Given the facts, a murder-suicide is not more plausible. <modsnip> IMO. These two people tied jackets around their backs to act as a makeshift straitjacket and then hung themselves? <modsnip>

Ligature neck compression does not necessarily mean they died from hanging. They could have had somebody strangle them with a belt or rope and then hang them to make it appear like a double suicide or murder-suicide. Of somebody(likely two people), held them at gunpoint and put the jackets around them, put the belts around their necks and hung them.

I don't know how anybody could still think this was a murder-suicide or double suicide given all of the facts. JMO.

But we don't know if they are facts. LE has not substantiated them. Only LE have all the facts.

I believe at this point, it was murder suicide.

 

[Starkville]

Just a wonder... Indoor pool areas are usually quite warm and humid. Were the Shermans in the water at all? I wonder if the bodies were placed there to hasten decomposition or erode/destroy evidence

 

[Inthedetails]

Given the facts, a murder-suicide is not more plausible. <modsnip> IMO. These two people tied jackets around their backs to act as a makeshift straitjacket and then hung themselves? <modsnip>

Ligature neck compression does not necessarily mean they died from hanging. They could have had somebody strangle them with a belt or rope and then hang them to make it appear like a double suicide or murder-suicide. Of somebody(likely two people), held them at gunpoint and put the jackets around them, put the belts around their necks and hung them.

I don't know how anybody could still think this was a murder-suicide or double suicide given all of the facts. JMO.

I remain on the fence until we have more info. We certainly do not have all the facts yet.

jmo

 

[matou]

People do tie their hands or arms and then hang, strangle or suffocate themselves to death. It happens. JMO

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Remember years ago when a census worker was found hanging, his feet and hands bound with duct tape, a gag in his mouth held in place by duct tape?

Suicide.

Here's a very well done story about the investigation.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/03/the-hanging/309210/

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[matou]

If double murder, why this method? Why not in a bloody, violent way if this is about revenge? Why hang them by the pool and not drown them? If this is a message, what is it and why not actually leave a message with the bodies?

 

[matou]

If the motive is money, did the perp(s) actually get any money from this possible act of murder? I haven't heard of anything gone missing from the home or bank accounts.

 

[matou]

Why not actually bind their arms together with rope, more belts, zip-ties, or electrical cord if this was a double murder? Why use jackets to do this?

 

[matou]

Unless the perp(s) had them at gunpoint, I doubt the Shermans would agree to put on a jacket, pull the jacket back on their arms and put their heads through leather belts that were attached to their pool railings. There would have to be other injuries to their bodies to substantiate them being forced to do this. I don't think this happened. JMO

 

[matou]

So what happens to their estate?


&#8220;The first thing people are looking for is to see if they have a will,&#8221; Suzana Popovic-Montag, a managing partner at Hull & Hull LLP, who is not involved in the Shermans&#8217; estate, told the Star. That establishes an executor &#8211; someone to deal with the body, the funeral, and eventually the division of the estate.


&#8220;They&#8217;re looking in the houses, safety deposit boxes,&#8221; Popovic-Montag listed. In some cases, individuals will tell their executors where the original copy is. &#8220;If people don&#8217;t know, then the family&#8217;s just really left looking.&#8221;


Rifling through the Sherman&#8217;s home, though, would be more complicated. That&#8217;s where the couple was found dead &#8211; and homicide investigators have taken over the case. Unless the family knows precisely where to look for the will, the estate process may be complicated or delayed by the investigation.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...causes-barry-and-honey-sherman-held-dear.html

 

[nightwatch]

I really suggest not looking at these. I found somebody hanging 25 years ago. I was in extreme shock for about 8 months - my weight went down to 45 lbs (I was in my early thirties at the time). I've been on sleep meds for 25 years now and that image is forever burned into my mind.

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Ciao

ciao

 

[Abundance]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...ned-cousins-seek-piece-of-apotex-fortune.html

Am I the only one that thinks the orphaned cousins got a raw deal?

Barry gave them million dollar homes; but, when they wouldn't behave he took them away. I wonder if he treated them generously while his Mother was alive and when she died he severed contact.

 

[Jasper52]

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Ciao

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Thank you. It was my Mom. A professional noose was used and it was declared a suicide even though I know she didn't commit suicide. Somebody (I have a good idea who) got away with murder. He has since passed away.

 

[BUF]

Thank you. It was my Mom. A professional noose was used and it was declared a suicide even though I know she didn't commit suicide. Somebody (I have a good idea who) got away with murder. He has since passed away.

So very sorry Jasper

 

[justchrissy47]

Thank you. It was my Mom. A professional noose was used and it was declared a suicide even though I know she didn't commit suicide. Somebody (I have a good idea who) got away with murder. He has since passed away.

Oh my...so sorry this happened to you and your family

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[Canterbury Tales]

No one would choose to live on Old Colony road that wasn't an observant Jew. Old Colony road draws a premium in pricing due to the proximity of the synagogue on the East end of the road. One street over on Forest Heights equivalent homes are often $1-2M less.

Sorry, but that is absolute hogwash. I live in the same area that the Shermans lived in. Barry Sherman gave lots of money to Jewish causes but he was not religious himself. He was secular and I think he may have even described himself as an atheist. He had a strong sense of his heritage but wasn't religious at all. Living on Old Colony Rd. does not identify one's religious beliefs.

 

[Canterbury Tales]

The Winter boys each received about $350,000 from their parents' estate. Their mother wanted them to be raised in the Jewish faith (she was a convert) and so she stipulated that they not be raised by relatives (odd: her relatives weren't Jewish but her husband's were, so why did she not want the boys to be raised by their father's family?) They were adopted by strangers who did not treat them well and used most of their inheritance for their living expenses - the boys squandered the remainder when they came of age. They have struggled as adults - Barry Sherman helped them by buying them houses and giving substantial amounts of cash - but I'm not sure that more money would be the answer to their problems.

Over the years, they have tried to settle but Barry always refused, referring to their lawsuit as extortion. The boys filed an appeal after they lost the lawsuit in September - I wonder, with Barry and Honey both gone, if the executors of the estate will be more willing to settle and give the boys a large amount just to close the file.

That's exactly what it was IMO. Barry didn't owe the cousins a thing. He did all he could do for them and it was up to them to make good on it all. They failed. Not Barry's problem.

 

[Canterbury Tales]

The Winter boys each received about $350,000 from their parents' estate. Their mother wanted them to be raised in the Jewish faith (she was a convert) and so she stipulated that they not be raised by relatives (odd: her relatives weren't Jewish but her husband's were, so why did she not want the boys to be raised by their father's family?) They were adopted by strangers who did not treat them well and used most of their inheritance for their living expenses - the boys squandered the remainder when they came of age. They have struggled as adults - Barry Sherman helped them by buying them houses and giving substantial amounts of cash - but I'm not sure that more money would be the answer to their problems.

Over the years, they have tried to settle but Barry always refused, referring to their lawsuit as extortion. The boys filed an appeal after they lost the lawsuit in September - I wonder, with Barry and Honey both gone, if the executors of the estate will be more willing to settle and give the boys a large amount just to close the file.

Good point I've also wondered if the cousins were so desperate and knew that they exhausted their options with Barry and Honey that they figured they would kill Barry and Honey out of revenge and try and squeeze some kind of settlement out of the Sherman children? However, it's hard to see how the children wouldn't want to carry on their parents' wishes, i.e. not one more penny to the cousins.

 

[jimmyonishi]

Can't seem to visualize this atm ... "Both had on jackets that were pulled &#8220;behind their backs&#8221; and rolled down over their arms."
Is the arm part pulled behind them and the back part of the jacket on their arms?

 

[matou]

Can't seem to visualize this atm ... "Both had on jackets that were pulled &#8220;behind their backs&#8221; and rolled down over their arms."
Is the arm part pulled behind them and the back part of the jacket on their arms?

I think it would be like trying to pull of a sweater you are wearing over your head, pulling your head out of the "head hole" and having your sweater still on your arms. This would lock your arms behind you.