Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #10

[Lexiintoronto]

Thanks for the link, it’s been awhile since I watched that video. This is the one about KW’s Louie, the quasi-gangster who knew a lot of bad people and was ready to push that button.

And KW keeps that secret until BS is dead? Doesn’t use as it as leverage against BS during the lawsuit?

 

[MistyWaters]

And KW keeps that secret until BS is dead? Doesn’t use as it as leverage against BS during the lawsuit?

That’s an excellent observation, appears he kept it a secret until after Barry was dead. At the very least, after Bank Barry shut the vault KW would’ve also had leverage to squeeze it back open, had he threatened to report the two incidents to police. Arranging to have a wife murdered is a serious crime I believe, conspiracy to commit murder.

Maybe he just has a real poor memory? Because according to the dismissed cousin’s lawsuit, ruling found on Canlii, something similar happened as well. After a Royal Trust rep has passed away, KW reported a conversation to the Judge that would’ve been beneficial towards the cousin’s case. But the Judge questioned why KW hadn’t mentioned the conversation during the earlier lawsuit by the cousins versus Royal Trust, when the man was still living and therefore could’ve answered to the allegations.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

That’s an excellent observation, appears he kept it a secret until after Barry was dead. At the very least, after Bank Barry shut the vault KW would’ve also had leverage to squeeze it back open, had he threatened to report the two incidents to police. Arranging to have a wife murdered is a serious crime I believe, conspiracy to commit murder.

Maybe he just has a real poor memory? Because according to the dismissed cousin’s lawsuit, ruling found on Canlii, something similar happened as well. After a Royal Trust rep has passed away, KW reported a conversation to the Judge that would’ve been beneficial towards the cousin’s case. But the Judge questioned why KW hadn’t mentioned the conversation during the earlier lawsuit by the cousins versus Royal Trust, when the man was still living and therefore could’ve answered to the allegations.

You’re right! :

The evidence, as set out in the original affidavit material that was before Justice Perell, and Sherman’s more recent affidavit, affirmed January 27, 2017, clearly supports this analysis. Kerry Winter’s affidavit, as I read it, does not provide any new evidentiary support for an alleged Commitment, other than his alleged conversation with Mr. O’Brien to the effect that it was Sherman’s promise and verbal assurances to include the children in the business that convinced Royal Trust to sell to S & U. I was not referred to any evidence from Sherman’s more recent cross-examination that supports different conclusions than those reached earlier by Justice Perell, or that is contrary to Sherman’s position on this motion.

[36] I am unable to rely on the evidence from Mr. Winter concerning the alleged conversation with Mr. O’Brien. It is hearsay which cannot be tested by cross-examination, as Mr. O’Brien is dead.

CanLII - 2017 ONSC 5492 (CanLII)

 

[Lexiintoronto]

ABro’s take on the promotions of LE working the Sherman case:

Ann Brocklehurst on Twitter

 

[JayFriend]

WARMINGTON: Cops in Sherman case get promoted, but will it stall the file now?

 

[deugirtni]

Interesting that on the TPS website they have a page listing all the unsolved homicides by year. Anybody notice any glaring omissions?
Toronto Police Service :: To Serve and Protect

You don't think its strange that the Sherman case is nowhere to be found?

*swear word* Good catch. Let’s try to find out why that is.

I know why. Plenty of people do.

Okay, but we need facts; not just conjecture.
Can anyone interested try to find out why? I’m trying.
ETA: someone pointed out to me that not all homicides are listed there, and perhaps they have a suspect for the Sherman murders. That might also coincide with the officers working on the case being promoted. *speculation*

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

Please have a look around this link below. I can see that in Toronto there were 8 homicides in December 2017. Two just *happened* to be in the area of Old Colony Road. You can filter by neighbourhood: St.Andrew-Windfield; also look at the homicide dots on the map of Toronto for the month filtered to December 2017 and see the dot on Old Colony Road - although one dot is there, the thing lists 2 homicides there at that dot, since when you press on the dot, the graph changes to '2'; look at the homicide type - 100% of those same 2 at that location were by: 'other' (not shooting or stabbing); I have screenshotted what I'm looking at below.

Play around with that, and I think you will find that both Barry and Honey's homicides are indeed very much present. They seem to be missing however, from the UNsolved site, which was posted earlier. Perhaps that is a different site or section which was neglected to have been updated?

I recall that Gomes reported TPS's double homicide determination toward the end of January 2018, so someone would have had to have gone back into the 2017 year to update the Sherman murders which occurred in 2017. Is it plausible that a section of updating could have been accidentally missed?

Or..... I wonder if that indicates they are simply NOT UNsolved?. I'm unsure at which point they are able to move them from unsolved to solved? Do they wait until they believe they're solved? Or until charges or laid? Or until a conviction is successful?



http://data.torontopolice.on.ca/pages/homicide

 

[deugirtni]

He first took his story as an ‘exclusive’ to the Daily Mail who pay cash for stories, and set up a ‘Funded Justice’ page asking for 2.5 million in February. He owes the Sherman Estate upwards of 8 million.

Link:
Orphans Robbed: Up against billionaire,

 

[deugirtni]

Kerry has a lot to say. He just won't say it here anymore.

Why on earth not? Surely if one wants to make such claims of knowledge (Barry hated Honey; Barry twice asked someone to whack his wife; etc.) as a verified insider on a case, one should also be prepared to stand up to the scrutiny that would inevitably follow? Surely one wouldn't expect that everyone would simply take all words as fact without some kind of verification? The saying, 'If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen' comes to mind - but I suppose that is what is now being done, so it is redundant.

 

[casesensitive]

Please have a look around this link below. I can see that in Toronto there were 8 homicides in December 2017. Two just *happened* to be in the area of Old Colony Road. You can filter by neighbourhood: St.Andrew-Windfield; also look at the homicide dots on the map of Toronto for the month filtered to December 2017 and see the dot on Old Colony Road - although one dot is there, the thing lists 2 homicides there at that dot, since when you press on the dot, the graph changes to '2'; look at the homicide type - 100% of those same 2 at that location were by: 'other' (not shooting or stabbing); I have screenshotted what I'm looking at below.

Play around with that, and I think you will find that both Barry and Honey's homicides are indeed very much present. They seem to be missing however, from the UNsolved site, which was posted earlier. Perhaps that is a different site or section which was neglected to have been updated?

I recall that Gomes reported TPS's double homicide determination toward the end of January 2018, so someone would have had to have gone back into the 2017 year to update the Sherman murders which occurred in 2017. Is it plausible that a section of updating could have been accidentally missed?

Or..... I wonder if that indicates they are simply NOT UNsolved?. I'm unsure at which point they are able to move them from unsolved to solved? Do they wait until they believe they're solved? Or until charges or laid? Or until a conviction is successful?

View attachment 158932

http://data.torontopolice.on.ca/pages/homicide

Good research deugirtni. What I noticed is that TPS asks for help from the public before listing all of these unsolved murders. TPS has never asked for public help in the Sherman case in the year following their deaths. That either denotes (imho) that they don't need the public's help because they have a viable suspect under investigation, or they think there is no other killer at large, other than BS.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Good research deugirtni. What I noticed is that TPS asks for help from the public before listing all of these unsolved murders. TPS has never asked for public help in the Sherman case in the year following their deaths. That either denotes (imho) that they don't need the public's help because they have a viable suspect under investigation, or they think there is no other killer at large, other than BS.

Do you think it may be BS?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

The new judicial authorizations to search were approved by Pringle between April and last week. Pringle is the go-to judge for all Sherman warrants, court heard. Four new authorizations were obtained April 16, two on June 27, and one was granted Sunday, Sept. 23.

BBM

The judge signed the warrant on a Sunday? That’s interesting.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.the...probe-obtains-seven-more-search-warrants.html

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Please have a look around this link below. I can see that in Toronto there were 8 homicides in December 2017. Two just *happened* to be in the area of Old Colony Road. You can filter by neighbourhood: St.Andrew-Windfield; also look at the homicide dots on the map of Toronto for the month filtered to December 2017 and see the dot on Old Colony Road - although one dot is there, the thing lists 2 homicides there at that dot, since when you press on the dot, the graph changes to '2'; look at the homicide type - 100% of those same 2 at that location were by: 'other' (not shooting or stabbing); I have screenshotted what I'm looking at below.

Play around with that, and I think you will find that both Barry and Honey's homicides are indeed very much present. They seem to be missing however, from the UNsolved site, which was posted earlier. Perhaps that is a different site or section which was neglected to have been updated?

I recall that Gomes reported TPS's double homicide determination toward the end of January 2018, so someone would have had to have gone back into the 2017 year to update the Sherman murders which occurred in 2017. Is it plausible that a section of updating could have been accidentally missed?

Or..... I wonder if that indicates they are simply NOT UNsolved?. I'm unsure at which point they are able to move them from unsolved to solved? Do they wait until they believe they're solved? Or until charges or laid? Or until a conviction is successful?

View attachment 158932

http://data.torontopolice.on.ca/pages/homicide

Thank you! That’s excellent.

I read the news, but I’m afraid to say I didn’t recognize most of the victims from the site. Maybe the page is meant to highlight cases that need more information from the public.

 

[casesensitive]

Do you think it may be BS?

I tend to believe what LE believe, for the simple reason that I have no information to make a judgement that could differ from their expertise and inside knowledge. My mind doesn't wander to corrupt cops and corrupt politicians, and cover-ups in murder cases. Maybe it should..I'm pretty naive in regards to billionaire victims.

The private investigation that determined that it was M/M was not only backed up by TPS, but announced as a" targeted" killing of both Shermans. I have to think that LE have some reason to name this "targeted" of both Shermans. They didn't have to use that term, or include both BS and HS, and that terminology has led me to believe that they have some evidence to back this up. The private team never used that term, or implied that HS was also targeted, so I feel TPS went above and beyond declaring this a M/M. I think they have garnered much more information than the private team, even if their initial statement and actions appeared as tunnel vision of M/S.

Having said all of that, I am pretty dismayed at what we have heard of their investigation from the press and the private team. I sincerely don't know if I trust TPS and the following claim doesn't help, although it was made in September. It is disturbing to know that TPS did not review surveillance video for the first six weeks. Based on this--they thought BS killed HS, or they know who did. Right?

"The Star had argued at the hearing that a series of missteps by police — including the pursuit of the murder-suicide theory for six weeks and a similar delay in reviewing CCTV footage — were deserving of public oversight, and at least a redacted version of all warrant documents and the police investigation notes that support them should be released."

Sherman murder probe obtains seven more search warrants | The Star

 

[deugirtni]

BBM

The judge signed the warrant on a Sunday? That’s interesting.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.the...probe-obtains-seven-more-search-warrants.html

Good catch, that *is* interesting!

 

[MistyWaters]

This is the snippet regarding the video.

• Why did police wait until a month after the Shermans died to view four days of CCTV footage seized from the Apotex head offices in December? The Star has discovered that when police copied the CCTV footage the weekend after the bodies were discovered they did not realize they could not view it due to a software security feature. Police eventually contacted Apotex and asked for a fresh copy of the file, according to a source with knowledge of the incident.

Sherman murder probe obtains seven more search warrants | The Star


This is a snippet from the TPS press conference held Jan 26th.
“But after “thousands of hours” of investigative work, including “obtaining or executing 20 judicial authorizations and searches,” seizing more than 150 pieces of evidence, 127 witness interviews and the collection of 2,000 hours of surveillance and security video footage from adjacent homes and nearby businesses, detectives are satisfied the couple was murdered...”
Police investigation into Sherman double murder focuses on realtor’s ‘lock box’

I’m thinking 2000 hours of video is huge collection for TPS to review as 2000 hours represents more than 83 solid days, 24/7. If the team at TPS thoroughly reviewed 2000+ hours of video footage in six weeks seeking commonalities and clues, even that’s an intensive effort.
I have a different theory about the Apotex video surveillance and “the source with knowledge of the indecent”. I think it highly likely Apotex would’ve reviewed their security footage prior to handing it over to LE. So I wonder, was this story concocted for another reason entirely... was someone viewed talking to Barry in the parking lot in the days prior to his death, someone who otherwise claimed to have no contact with him? Sometimes blurbs like this can be a subtle police message, significant only to a suspect.

 

[MistyWaters]

Just thinking about CCTV footage and imaging police officers sitting down in front of piles of it. A non-retail business such as Apotex involving the murder of the wealthy owner, rather than just handing over the video to TPS wouldn’t their security officers review it in advance and point out to TPS any suspicious happenings or interactions? Otherwise would TPS know who was who, or if there was a business reason for that person to be parked in the parking lot, other than Barry or Honey Shermans car and the architect. Apotex knows which individuals and vehicles would normally be parked in their parking lot at what times, not TPS.

So I just cannot imagine, as the news report suggests, TPS marching into Apotex to “seize” CCTV footage, taking it away, then a police officer sitting in an office reviewing it, scratching their head as they obverse dozens of strangers coming and going, having no communication with Apotex.

Much the same as residential CCTV, surely an owner wouldn’t just hand CCTV footage without offering any input, ie “last Wednesday night my son Joe came over for dinner and then we watched the hockey game and he stayed until about midnight, that’s his truck you see parked on the street”. Because what’d be the point of TPS chasing their tails trying to figure out who the mysterious truck belonged to, if the owner of the CCTV knows?

 

[JDG]

TPS would have someone from the firm come and sit in on CCTV to point out who was a stranger.

There was a murder at my spouses workplace and they had someone from the firm to help them decipher what was what/what was correct. etc.

 

[ldlager]

Just thinking about CCTV footage and imaging police officers sitting down in front of piles of it. A non-retail business such as Apotex involving the murder of the wealthy owner, rather than just handing over the video to TPS wouldn’t their security officers review it in advance and point out to TPS any suspicious happenings or interactions? Otherwise would TPS know who was who, or if there was a business reason for that person to be parked in the parking lot, other than Barry or Honey Shermans car and the architect. Apotex knows which individuals and vehicles would normally be parked in their parking lot at what times, not TPS.

So I just cannot imagine, as the news report suggests, TPS marching into Apotex to “seize” CCTV footage, taking it away, then a police officer sitting in an office reviewing it, scratching their head as they obverse dozens of strangers coming and going, having no communication with Apotex.

Much the same as residential CCTV, surely an owner wouldn’t just hand CCTV footage without offering any input, ie “last Wednesday night my son Joe came over for dinner and then we watched the hockey game and he stayed until about midnight, that’s his truck you see parked on the street”. Because what’d be the point of TPS chasing their tails trying to figure out who the mysterious truck belonged to, if the owner of the CCTV knows?

Maybe apo did not turn over any video until ordered by the court to do so (just like we read about what happened with access to certain of their computers). After all, the videos could also contain sensitive competitive or business info.
In any event, TPS didn’t review it for weeks afterwards..... too busy watching Netflix I guess

 

[MistyWaters]

TPS would have someone from the firm come and sit in on CCTV to point out who was a stranger.

There was a murder at my spouses workplace and they had someone from the firm to help them decipher what was what/what was correct. etc.

That seems logical to me as well. Policing must require an intense amount of interacting with employees of the companies who provide information.

I’ve also been involved in situations related to criminal charges where LE will arrive and just ask to view files or documentation. But until a subpoena is signed by a Judge and served, they’re not legally allowed to take what they’ve viewed. I have no idea if this is standard or not but it leads me to believe LE are often aware of the nature of the evidence and it’s value, before it’s subpoenaed.

 

[MistyWaters]

Maybe apo did not turn over any video until ordered by the court to do so (just like we read about what happened with access to certain of their computers). After all, the videos could also contain sensitive competitive or business info.
In any event, TPS didn’t review it for weeks afterwards..... too busy watching Netflix I guess

Regarding Apotex, here’s two examples of contradictory information reported by the media. It seems anonymous media sources do not always provide reliable information.

The first, CBC actually printed a clarification to amend an earlier report indicating Apotex was uncooperative.

Barry and Honey Sherman deaths a targeted double homicide, police say | CBC News
Clarifications

• An earlier version of this story stated that police attempted to search Sherman's Apotex office. In fact, Apotex says police did search his office with the company's full co-operation.
  Jan 26, 2018 10:39 PM ET

Another example of contradictions involves succession planning. The first is almost comical because private companies are not at risk of takeover in the way that publicly-traded corporations are.

Succession doubts cloud Apotex future after billionaire owner's death | Reuters
TORONTO (Reuters) - Canadian pharmaceuticals billionaire Barry Sherman failed to implement a succession plan at his Apotex business before his death last week, two business associates told Reuters, potentially leaving it vulnerable to takeover approaches....”

Then Dec 22nd, a spokesperson from Apotex -
Barry Sherman, found dead with his wife in their home, set up 'robust succession plan' for Apotex 5 years ago | CBC News
“Barry had developed a robust succession plan which he began implementing five years ago when he stepped down as CEO," Apotex spokesman Jordan Berman said in an email Friday.

"From that point on until his tragic death, Dr. Sherman was no longer involved in day-to-day operations at Apotex rather, focused on some specific aspects of the business."..”