Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #11

[WINDSOR]

I do believe the estate documents are significant, but not from a crime investigation point of view. It is my understanding it is the family, not the Police, who want the documents hidden. In that case I would think the family is just acting like 'rich people' who want to avoid embarrassment of some type or other.

On the other hand, if there is family involvement in deaths, and the estate documents suggest some discord or animosity in the family, that also could be a motivation for secrecy.

In their attempts at secrecy, the family may actually drawing more attention to themselves.

 

[MistyWaters]

I do believe the estate documents are significant, but not from a crime investigation point of view. It is my understanding it is the family, not the Police, who want the documents hidden. In that case I would think the family is just acting like 'rich people' who want to avoid embarrassment of some type or other.

On the other hand, if there is family involvement in deaths, and the estate documents suggest some discord or animosity in the family, that also could be a motivation for secrecy.

In their attempts at secrecy, the family may actually drawing more attention to themselves.

I agree, and any discord or animosity is exactly what drives public speculation, rumour and gossip. But neither the public nor the media has the ability to “convict”. And if the estate documents aren’t significant to the criminal investigation then what other significance is there?

I’m certain the Shermans did not choose to become murder victims and so I just have really strong feeling that whoever viciously took their lives experiences great satisfaction and glee whenever the general public is exposed to a side story that gives us the opportunity to enthusiastically pick over their lives, much like vultures hovering over a carcass. JMO

 

[JDG]

July, 2018 the wills were sealed for a two year period only and already almost half the time has lapsed. Who would’ve guessed back then the murders would still be unsolved.

JMO but unless there’s something in the Estate files that is able to further the investigation, unsealing only serves as a side show.

Possibly, it was a poor decision to seal the wills for any period of time. At this point, they need to be public IMO

 

[Tighthead]

Possibly, it was a poor decision to seal the wills for any period of time. At this point, they need to be public IMO

Apparently the initial application only included one Paragraph of evidence concerning risk/safety. Did they even have an affidavit or letter from someone from TPS?

Absence evidence from TPS that the standard release of info would compromise the investigation or put people in serious harm, it was a weak application and an indulgent decision. Of course, Greenspan likely ensured that the TPS wouldn’t do the family any favours in something like this.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Apparently the initial application only included one Paragraph of evidence concerning risk/safety. Did they even have an affidavit or letter from someone from TPS?

Absence evidence from TPS that the standard release of info would compromise the investigation or put people in serious harm, it was a weak application and an indulgent decision. Of course, Greenspan likely ensured that the TPS wouldn’t do the family any favours in something like this.

From the Star (bbm):

In the court hearing, Dunphy acknowledged that the Sherman family’s “AB” affidavit “made no reference to receipt of warnings or opinions regarding the degree of risk from Toronto Police Service.” Still, Dunphy said that while the concern by the family of harm was “necessarily speculative,” he found that it was “nevertheless reasonable.”

Where is Honey Sherman’s will? | The Star

 

[dotr]

If the family is worried that releasing details of the will put them at risk, might one assume the names of the very entities they fear are contained within those documents?
speculation, imo.

 

[WINDSOR]

If the family is worried that releasing details of the will put them at risk, might one assume the names of the very entities they fear are contained within those documents?
speculation, imo.

That appears what the family was trying to imply. However since the Police have not taken a position regarding the documents, I do not believe there is anything to impact on the investigation in those documents.
Often the rich do things because 'they can' and/or because lawyers told them it was a 'good idea'. Often a 'good idea' from a lawyer's perspective is something that generates revenue for the lawyer/law firm. At a $1000.00 an hour, you can see that the whole issue of sealing the documents, and fighting all the way to the Supreme Court could easily generate many many hours of billing for the lawyers. Just saying.

 

[ldlager]

That is true, however if it is standard and normal for this information to be public, then these people should have the same rules as everyone else, imho. To have it any other way perpetuates the notion that people of wealth can bend whatever rules they wish. I'm sure there are all kinds of people who would prefer their loved ones' estate details be kept private, perhaps including families of other murder victims, and perhaps including other families of great wealth. In any murder investigation, it is always of interest who benefits financially from the death and perhaps by how much. Often murders are committed by people close to their victims, with something to gain financially. Should potential perps in any given case be allowed to control whether or not the estates of their victims are treated as any others, or whether they are kept secret?

Donovan is still talking about H's Will being missing or non-existent. I had always assumed that it was just at one point in time that perhaps it may have been 'missing', but that in the meantime, it had been 'found'. It will be interesting to know if it has been found. I can't imagine for one second that H would not have had one at all.

"Honey Sherman either did not have a will or one was never found."

Sherman family to ask Supreme Court to seal files detailing slain billionaires’ estate | The Star

IMHO I am 98 percent positive that HS had a will. It seems very unreasonable and most unlikely that she wouldn’t have had one given the money involved and the family’s access to advisors and lawyers. If her will cannot be found, there is only one likely reason for that IMHO, and that is that the contents of the will would point LE directly or indirectly to those that either committed or sponsored these murders. I frankly have a very hard time believing that her will cannot be located.

 

[Tighthead]

That appears what the family was trying to imply. However since the Police have not taken a position regarding the documents, I do not believe there is anything to impact on the investigation in those documents.
Often the rich do things because 'they can' and/or because lawyers told them it was a 'good idea'. Often a 'good idea' from a lawyer's perspective is something that generates revenue for the lawyer/law firm. At a $1000.00 an hour, you can see that the whole issue of sealing the documents, and fighting all the way to the Supreme Court could easily generate many many hours of billing for the lawyers. Just saying.

I expect the lawyers outlined the risks to the trustees. With a file like this, there is no need to juice the fees. Old saying - you can skin them once, but you can fleece them forever.

I think the action was motivated by the family’s desire for privacy more than anything. Now it’s just buying time.

IMHO I am 98 percent positive that HS had a will. It seems very unreasonable and most unlikely that she wouldn’t have had one given the money involved and the family’s access to advisors and lawyers. If her will cannot be found, there is only one likely reason for that IMHO, and that is that the contents of the will would point LE directly or indirectly to those that either committed or sponsored these murders. I frankly have a very hard time believing that her will cannot be located.

If she had a will and it can’t be located, it seems much more likely that she destroyed it as a method of revocation. Perhaps there was a bequest to someone outside of the immediate family which she had reconsidered.

 

[ldlager]

I expect the lawyers outlined the risks to the trustees. With a file like this, there is no need to juice the fees. Old saying - you can skin them once, but you can fleece them forever.

I think the action was motivated by the family’s desire for privacy more than anything. Now it’s just buying time.



If she had a will and it can’t be located, it seems much more likely that she destroyed it as a method of revocation. Perhaps there was a bequest to someone outside of the immediate family which she had reconsidered.

Possibly. Or perhaps there was not a bequest to someone that one would have assumed would be a significant beneficiary.
Given all the resources available to her, instead of destroying it why wouldn’t she just have had it rewritten? Seems odd to me, but what do I know?

 

[Snoop Sister]

July, 2018 the wills were sealed for a two year period only and already almost half the time has lapsed. Who would’ve guessed back then the murders would still be unsolved.

JMO but unless there’s something in the Estate files that is able to further the investigation, unsealing only serves as a side show.

BBM Actually many of us said back then that we did not believe the murders would be solved!

 

[Tighthead]

Possibly. Or perhaps there was not a bequest to someone that one would have assumed would be a significant beneficiary.
Given all the resources available to her, instead of destroying it why wouldn’t she just have had it rewritten? Seems odd to me, but what do I know?

You destroy it prior to executing the new one if statutory intestacy provisions are preferable to the existing will. It’s really not odd, it’s advisable. It’s also not an either/or provision. You destroy the existing will and execute a new one.

I suspect trusts had the children already covered.

 

[MistyWaters]

Possibly. Or perhaps there was not a bequest to someone that one would have assumed would be a significant beneficiary.
Given all the resources available to her, instead of destroying it why wouldn’t she just have had it rewritten? Seems odd to me, but what do I know?

I wonder that very little of the couples wealth was held in their own names. Aside from the lot the new home was to be built on, did Honey have other assets or was everything held in holding companies and trusts. Their current home was registered to a numbered company iirc. I agree, I really have a hard time believing Honey died without any will.

Multiple wills | Ontario Wills, Probate & Estates Law

One piece from the past, it seems KW had reason to believe Barry had earlier transferred some of his wealth.
BBM
April 1, 2017
“Teplitsky, the plaintiffs’ new lawyer, said the updated statement of claim was rewritten to flesh out more details around the plaintiffs’ fiduciary claim against Sherman and his co-defendants. They are also seeking to add Sherman’s wife, Honey, his children and his sister as defendants at the July court hearing, alleging that Sherman has transferred assets to them....”
Toronto billionaire’s orphaned cousins seek piece of Apotex fortune

 

[1&2&3]

Has it been decided which one died last? Doesn’t the last one dying will take precedence?

With both of them dying so close in time, as we know, does Honey’s will receive any consideration as to how she wants things distributed? This is if they can find her will.

Not finding her will is suspicious to me. It just does not sound right. I feel certain she had her own charities she would leave money, however, Barry may not give her choices a thought. JMO.

 

[1&2&3]

For our lawyers, why would this AB person be threatening the family or beneficiaries if the contents of the will is released to the public?

The Sherman family countered with references to an affidavit within the sealed file by a person referred to only as “AB,” who describes the ills that will befall individuals if the file is made public.

AB wrote, “There is a legitimate and ongoing risk to the personal safety and security of (the estate trustees and beneficiaries), including risks of violence and kidnapping, in circumstances where the identity and motivation of the perpetrator(s) of the murders remains a mystery.”

Where is Honey Sherman’s will? | The Star

The children must know who AB is. How is this person getting by with such threats? Isn’t there a law against Threatening People with a Dangerous Act?

 

[Tighthead]

I wonder that very little of the couples wealth was held in their own names. Aside from the lot the new home was to be built on, did Honey have other assets or was everything held in holding companies and trusts. Their current home was registered to a numbered company iirc. I agree, I really have a hard time believing Honey died without any will.

Multiple wills | Ontario Wills, Probate & Estates Law

One piece from the past, it seems KW had reason to believe Barry had earlier transferred some of his wealth.
BBM
April 1, 2017
“Teplitsky, the plaintiffs’ new lawyer, said the updated statement of claim was rewritten to flesh out more details around the plaintiffs’ fiduciary claim against Sherman and his co-defendants. They are also seeking to add Sherman’s wife, Honey, his children and his sister as defendants at the July court hearing, alleging that Sherman has transferred assets to them....”
Toronto billionaire’s orphaned cousins seek piece of Apotex fortune

Who would own the shares in the companies you reference?

Largely Barry and Honey, possibly family trusts and the children. Those shares would still fall into the estate if they were held in personal names.

 

[Tighthead]

For our lawyers, why would this AB person be threatening the family or beneficiaries if the contents of the will is released to the public?

The Sherman family countered with references to an affidavit within the sealed file by a person referred to only as “AB,” who describes the ills that will befall individuals if the file is made public.

AB wrote, “There is a legitimate and ongoing risk to the personal safety and security of (the estate trustees and beneficiaries), including risks of violence and kidnapping, in circumstances where the identity and motivation of the perpetrator(s) of the murders remains a mystery.”

Where is Honey Sherman’s will? | The Star

The children must know who AB is. How is this person getting by with such threats? Isn’t there a law against Threatening People with a Dangerous Act?

AB is the affiant.

He or she is likely a PI or security consultant. Possibly a police officer, but unlikely in my opinion.

 

[ldlager]

You destroy it prior to executing the new one if statutory intestacy provisions are preferable to the existing will. It’s really not odd, it’s advisable. It’s also not an either/or provision. You destroy the existing will and execute a new one.

I suspect trusts had the children already covered.

Thank you for your insight Tighthead. I understand why the old one would be destroyed if you write a new will. Thats the point- there would be a new will. I just find it very hard to believe that HS, would not have had a will, and would have relied on Ontario statutory provisions to determine how her estate would be settled. I know there are wealthy people who have died without wills (Aretha Franklin comes to mind), but surely for folks with this sort of wealth this is unusual.

 

[ldlager]

Has it been decided which one died last? Doesn’t the last one dying will take precedence?

With both of them dying so close in time, as we know, does Honey’s will receive any consideration as to how she wants things distributed? This is if they can find her will.

Not finding her will is suspicious to me. It just does not sound right. I feel certain she had her own charities she would leave money, however, Barry may not give her choices a thought. JMO.

AFAIK the order of death has not been disclosed, if its known. We don’t know, even if Barry died first, whether he left anything to HS in his will. Certainly HS will, if there is one, would apply in determining the settlement of her estate.

 

[Tighthead]

AFAIK the order of death has not been disclosed, if its known. We don’t know, even if Barry died first, whether he left anything to HS in his will. Certainly HS will, if there is one, would apply in determining the settlement of her estate.

One of the articles linked said BS left his entire estate to HS, with a gift over to the children (presumably in equal shares) if she did not survive him. Most wills require the initial named beneficiary to survive 30 days.