Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #12

[ldlager]

Newstalk 1010 John Moore was this morning discussing Donovan’s book and referenced previous discussions he has has with kd re the murders. Moore mentioned that kd has told him that kds view is that these murders didn’t involve international parties/killers, and wasn’t business related. Evidently Donovan’s view of the most likely scenario, which will be discussed in the book, is that these murders were local, and involve someone very close to Barry and honey. FWIW.

 

[WINDSOR]

Newstalk 1010 John Moore was this morning discussing Donovan’s book and referenced previous discussions he has has with kd re the murders. Moore mentioned that kd has told him that kds view is that these murders didn’t involve international parties/killers, and wasn’t business related. Evidently Donovan’s view of the most likely scenario, which will be discussed in the book, is that these murders were local, and involve someone very close to Barry and honey. FWIW.

So Donovan thinks someone local and close to Barry and Honey was the mastermind. That really narrows the POI list down considerably. This implies family or friends. Of this group, who had the ability and the motive to commit the crime? The staging and method of murder certainly supports his theory (personal, anger).

I am having trouble imaging anybody in this group who would want Shermans dead. As money alone appears not to be the main motivation in this crime, who in this group of POIs had that much hate for the Shermans?

 

[deugirtni]

Newstalk 1010 John Moore was this morning discussing Donovan’s book and referenced previous discussions he has has with kd re the murders. Moore mentioned that kd has told him that kds view is that these murders didn’t involve international parties/killers, and wasn’t business related. Evidently Donovan’s view of the most likely scenario, which will be discussed in the book, is that these murders were local, and involve someone very close to Barry and honey. FWIW.

Is there a link to the interview?

 

[ldlager]

Is there a link to the interview?

It wasn't an interview, John Moore was talking about the case, how its not solved yet, and mentioned his recent discussions with KD. He said he would be interviewing KD on air in the next week or 2 in advance of the book coming out.
There also was a report on 1010 this morning that the Sherman's former house (now just a lot) has not yet shown up as sold on MLS.

 

[ldlager]

So Donovan thinks someone local and close to Barry and Honey was the mastermind. That really narrows the POI list down considerably. This implies family or friends. Of this group, who had the ability and the motive to commit the crime? The staging and method of murder certainly supports his theory (personal, anger).

I am having trouble imaging anybody in this group who would want Shermans dead. As money alone appears not to be the main motivation in this crime, who in this group of POIs had that much hate for the Shermans?

Chapter 16 of KD's book is titled "The Most Likely Scenario". In that chapter, I'm sure he will spell out what his theory is of who was involved, based on all the info he has obtained.

Money may in fact be very important motivation in these crimes- killing them both could be a reflection of this.

 

[dotr]

Chapter 16 of KD's book is titled "The Most Likely Scenario". In that chapter, I'm sure he will spell out what his theory is of who was involved, based on all the info he has obtained.

Money may in fact be very important motivation in these crimes- killing them both could be a reflection of this.

Easy to see money as the prime motive for the murder of a billionaire couple (or anyone really) but what is difficult to process, is why the killer/s apparently staged such a bizarre and macabre death scene?
If it turns out that it was someone close to the Shermans after all, why did they not just shoot them at their home in Florida, make it look like a robbery?
Why stigmatize the house and everything in it like the art installations, why traumatize the staff, the real estate agents and prospective buyers, not to mention all the neighbours especially during the holidays?
Who could possibly be that twisted, selfish/greedy, angry/nasty and yet seemingly also with an artistic flair, albeit a dark one?
speculation, imo.

 

[ldlager]

Easy to see money as the prime motive for the murder of a billionaire couple (or anyone really) but what is difficult to process, is why the killer/s apparently staged such a bizarre and macabre death scene?
If it turns out that it was someone close to the Shermans after all, why did they not just shoot them at their home in Florida, make it look like a robbery?
Why stigmatize the house and everything in it like the art installations, why traumatize the staff, the real estate agents and prospective buyers, not to mention all the neighbours especially during the holidays?
Who could possibly be that twisted, selfish/greedy, angry/nasty and yet seemingly also with an artistic flair, albeit a dark one?
speculation, imo.

good questions, for sure. This was personal IMO.

I go back to the statement from the real estate agent who is quoted as saying that when he saw the bodies they were on the pool steps. He specifically said the pool steps, and he didn't say they were suspended from the railing. This could just be a misinterpretation of what he saw, but it makes me wonder about whether the crime scene was altered, especially given the amount of time between the discovery of the bodies and the call to the police. I know that seems unlikely, since the cleaners and the plant person would have probably been waiting for police in the house and would know who went downstairs. This discrepancy still troubles me.

 

[JDG]

Newstalk 1010 John Moore was this morning discussing Donovan’s book and referenced previous discussions he has has with kd re the murders. Moore mentioned that kd has told him that kds view is that these murders didn’t involve international parties/killers, and wasn’t business related. Evidently Donovan’s view of the most likely scenario, which will be discussed in the book, is that these murders were local, and involve someone very close to Barry and honey. FWIW.

Well, we all have opinions and KD is entitled to one also.

KD has a financial interest in pushing his pov forward, true or false.

What he should not overlook is the ability of family members/friends (many of whom are older people) to actually carry out these murders, the physicality needed and to not leave much in the way of evidence. (that we know of...)

I'd imagine its very hard to commit crimes without leaving physical evidence behind. As for lugging a couple of dead bodies over to the pool etc, it would take a lot of strength and resilience to complete. IMO

 

[JDG]

good questions, for sure. This was personal IMO.

I go back to the statement from the real estate agent who is quoted as saying that when he saw the bodies they were on the pool steps. He specifically said the pool steps, and he didn't say they were suspended from the railing. This could just be a misinterpretation of what he saw, but it makes me wonder about whether the crime scene was altered, especially given the amount of time between the discovery of the bodies and the call to the police. I know that seems unlikely, since the cleaners and the plant person would have probably been waiting for police in the house and would know who went downstairs. This discrepancy still troubles me.

If they were positioned on the pool steps, they would fall over if not 'attached' to the railing in some manner.

Rigor was likely done and gone by the time they were discovered.

IIRC, didnt he think it (the scene) was some sort of obscene Halloween prank??

 

[JDG]

It wasn't an interview, John Moore was talking about the case, how its not solved yet, and mentioned his recent discussions with KD. He said he would be interviewing KD on air in the next week or 2 in advance of the book coming out.
There also was a report on 1010 this morning that the Sherman's former house (now just a lot) has not yet shown up as sold on MLS.

Wonder if its even been listed?

 

[JDG]

Not really liking the way things are going here in Canada. Courts continually doing more and more to keep information away from the general public, and new organizations only giving news to those willing to pay for it. This isn't how a free society should run.

Newspapers have never been 'free'. How could they operate if they didnt charge? As mentioned, they used to use advertising revenue but with the advent of the internet, many things including print media have gone the way of the dodo. That's why they put up paywalls, not to keep information from people.

 

[JDG]

ldlager, I agree with you, these murders were very personal. Or at least, made to seem that way.

At this point, nothing would surprise me as to perps. I just wish we had more information, maybe some day!

 

[JDG]

O/T ?? maybe

If you check out realtor dot ca, 46 Old Colony Road, North York is listed and in the pictures of the property, you can see what I believe to be the Sherman home right after it was razed to the ground.

Just in case anyone is curious.

 

[dotr]

ldlager, I agree with you, these murders were very personal. Or at least, made to seem that way.

At this point, nothing would surprise me as to perps. I just wish we had more information, maybe some day!

Hope it is soon, because otherwise an angry, possibly deranged killer might be walking around and getting very jumpy wondering what the soon to be released book
might reveal.

Conversely, maybe things are going swimmingly well for him/her/them and everything desired fallen nicely into place. They might now after several years, feel confident they will never be caught and are merrily designing their next Halloween display.
imo, speculation.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

O/T ?? maybe

If you check out realtor dot ca, 46 Old Colony Road, North York is listed and in the pictures of the property, you can see what I believe to be the Sherman home right after it was razed to the ground.

Just in case anyone is curious.

Seems to be.

I’m surprised their garage is so close to the property line.



https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/...-toronto-st-andrew-windfields?_=1571442890217

ETA: And on the left-hand side two sections of their fence is down on their neighbour’s side.
Strange they didn’t fix that before the photos.

 

[ldlager]

Well, we all have opinions and KD is entitled to one also.

KD has a financial interest in pushing his pov forward, true or false.

What he should not overlook is the ability of family members/friends (many of whom are older people) to actually carry out these murders, the physicality needed and to not leave much in the way of evidence. (that we know of...)

I'd imagine its very hard to commit crimes without leaving physical evidence behind. As for lugging a couple of dead bodies over to the pool etc, it would take a lot of strength and resilience to complete. IMO

I am imagining that if a family member or friend was involved they hired a contract killer(s) and didn’t murder them themselves.

 

[Sphinx]

I am imagining that if a family member or friend was involved they hired a contract killer(s) and didn’t murder them themselves.

I have thought about why Honey was bloodied, and her phone was found on the ground floor bathroom floor. It is even possible one of her ear rings was found outside at the end of the driveway. She obviously put up quite a struggle, and her attackers had a hard time grabbing and holding her, even if for a brief time. Yet Barry, a man, and quite a bit larger, seems to have been taken without much of a struggle, and there were no marks on him. Could the one or two people who killed Honey have been women, who were not as strong as the one or two men who attacked Barry, and got control of him very quickly ? Also, leaving the phone behind on the bathroom floor -- was that an oversight, or more staging ? Just some thoughts. IMO

 

[casesensitive]

Just to note, it has never been verified whose phone was found on the bathroom floor. We are only guessing it might be Honey's.

 

[Satchie]

Easy to see money as the prime motive for the murder of a billionaire couple (or anyone really) but what is difficult to process, is why the killer/s apparently staged such a bizarre and macabre death scene?
If it turns out that it was someone close to the Shermans after all, why did they not just shoot them at their home in Florida, make it look like a robbery?
Why stigmatize the house and everything in it like the art installations, why traumatize the staff, the real estate agents and prospective buyers, not to mention all the neighbours especially during the holidays?
Who could possibly be that twisted, selfish/greedy, angry/nasty and yet seemingly also with an artistic flair, albeit a dark one?
speculation, imo.

You hang out on WS enough to know, there's no limit to the twisted, selfish, greedy, angry and nasty things people will do, if their minds push them in that direction!

I think the staging reflects a deep hatred for both the Shermans. "Just" killing them, hit man style, wasn't enough: the victim doesn't usually know what happened, people can feel sorry for the victim, not shocked by their appearance. I think there was a process of humiliation during their deaths as well: probably verbal, there's no hint they were physically tortured or violated.

People's imaginations can be quite vivid in thinking up what they would like to do to someone they despise. As well, the killer(s) probably wanted to baffle police and commit the crime of the century.

I do think that the manner of death is always a reflection of the killer's state of mind.

ETA: state of mind towards the victim. For eg, do they want to make the victim disappear, vs grotesquely displaying them in their expensive home

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I don't think it has anything to do with the wills. It appears that MS was relying on her sister to keep her afloat financially and it was a current need. It doesn't sound like MS was banking on a promised inheritance after HS died since she is now in the poor house because of her death. She is claiming that HS promised her the money, not that she was necessarily included in HS's will. She would not benefit from HS"s death regardless. Why HS would agree to give her $300 million is another story.

Did someone know of the promised millions and killed both Barry and Honey, before they could help their "poor relative" financially? People, who had an advantage by MS' and husband's ruin perhaps?
Idk, whether that would be a reason for double murder. Brainstorming, but doubting.