Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #12

[Mikos34]

I think there is a good chance the family just wants to keep their inheritance/financial situation private. They can deny what's been in the media as rumour up to the point that the will is made public. At that point everyone will know their business for certain.

 

[JDG]

All wills become public information after probate and I do not see any reason that the Sherman family wills should be treated any differently. There have been very wealthy people die in Toronto before this........

 

[MistyWaters]

I guess perhaps we will never know the truth here. I certainly hope the SCOC upholds the appeal court ruling.
It’s ridiculous imo- everyone knows who the trustees and beneficiaries are already, and the details of the will have been generally speculated about already. . There is clearly something else in the documents, something specific, that the family vehemently does not want to be made public.

Yes I’m sure the family didn’t want the Estate files released to Donovan but what’s surprising is the Supreme Court of Canada agreed to hear the case. Typically the odds are less than 10% as the vast majority of appeals are outrightly dismissed by the Court prior to being heard.

“Leave to appeal is granted by the Court if, for example, the case involves a question of public importance or if it raises an important issue of law (or an issue of both law and fact) that warrants consideration by the Court. The Court’s decision whether to grant leave to appeal is based on its assessment of the public importance of the legal issues raised in the case in question.”
Supreme Court of Canada - Role of the Court

Dismissed, dismissed, dismissed, see them all, hardly any are granted a Supreme Court hearing. I’m curious about the reason this captured the attention of the Judges.
Navigation by Date: 2019 - SCC Cases (Lexum)

 

[Sillybilly]

Reminder:

With regard to F. D'A, Websleuths' policy is to use initials for all case players other than the victims.

 

[1&2&3]

Do you think the secrecy has to do with the surrogates of the last three children?

Are their names revealed? Are they left money?

The adult children of Barry and Honey surely know the story of their conception and birth. Since Barry seemed to brag about they weren’t Honey’s biological children, it was apparently common knowledge. IMO, that shows what an egotistical bast**d he was!

However, since this story is known, what other secret could be hiding in the will? Surely Barry’s lawyer advised he and Honey that the will would be made public at some point after their deaths. So why use this avenue as the way to handle “this secret”?

 

[Tighthead]

I am stunned that leave was granted. It just doesn't seem like a case that meets the criteria of importance.

 

[Tighthead]

Do you think the secrecy has to do with the surrogates of the last three children?

Are their names revealed? Are they left money?

The adult children of Barry and Honey surely know the story of their conception and birth. Since Barry seemed to brag about they weren’t Honey’s biological children, it was apparently common knowledge. IMO, that shows what an egotistical bast**d he was!

However, since this story is known, what other secret could be hiding in the will? Surely Barry’s lawyer advised he and Honey that the will would be made public at some point after their deaths. So why use this avenue as the way to handle “this secret”?

It would be more sensible to just give them money while alive. No need to make a testamentary dispostion and go through this rigamarole.

 

[WINDSOR]

I have a feeling the Supreme Court would like to make a ruling that firmly reinforces the openness of court documents and legal proceedings in Canada. I'm guessing they see in this case an opportunity to prevent people with wealth and legal clout, from having a different set of rules than ordinary Canadians.

If the Supreme court were to overrule the appeals court and years of common law, they would be in fact creating new legal statutes which is the Parliaments' responsibility under our Constitution.

Because the the SCOC knows this, they will likely rule with the Appeals court, and suggest that if Parliament wants to change the way courts deal with documents, new laws should be written.

My opinion only.

 

[Tighthead]

I have a feeling the Supreme Court would like to make a ruling that firmly reinforces the openness of court documents and legal proceedings in Canada. I'm guessing they see in this case an opportunity to prevent people with wealth and legal clout, from having a different set of rules than ordinary Canadians.

If the Supreme court were to overrule the appeals court and years of common law, they would be in fact creating new legal statutes which is the Parliaments' responsibility under our Constitution.

Because the the SCOC knows this, they will likely rule with the Appeals court, and suggest that if Parliament wants to change the way courts deal with documents, new laws should be written.

My opinion only.

That would make sense.

Family files used to be open and as far as I know are closed in most jurisdictions. Perhaps there is an interest in doing the same with probate files and this will lead to discussion and possible reform.

 

[ldlager]

Yes I’m sure the family didn’t want the Estate files released to Donovan but what’s surprising is the Supreme Court of Canada agreed to hear the case. Typically the odds are less than 10% as the vast majority of appeals are outrightly dismissed by the Court prior to being heard.

“Leave to appeal is granted by the Court if, for example, the case involves a question of public importance or if it raises an important issue of law (or an issue of both law and fact) that warrants consideration by the Court. The Court’s decision whether to grant leave to appeal is based on its assessment of the public importance of the legal issues raised in the case in question.”
Supreme Court of Canada - Role of the Court

Dismissed, dismissed, dismissed, see them all, hardly any are granted a Supreme Court hearing. I’m curious about the reason this captured the attention of the Judges.
Navigation by Date: 2019 - SCC Cases (Lexum)

The reason? Rhymes with Honey and starts with "M".
Directionally, I see this as a precursor to even more limitations and restrictions of public disclosure of documents and info that imo should be accessible to the public. The scoc is as usual trying to set or guide social policy instead of focussing on the law. Moo

 

[ldlager]

I have a feeling the Supreme Court would like to make a ruling that firmly reinforces the openness of court documents and legal proceedings in Canada. I'm guessing they see in this case an opportunity to prevent people with wealth and legal clout, from having a different set of rules than ordinary Canadians.

If the Supreme court were to overrule the appeals court and years of common law, they would be in fact creating new legal statutes which is the Parliaments' responsibility under our Constitution.

Because the the SCOC knows this, they will likely rule with the Appeals court, and suggest that if Parliament wants to change the way courts deal with documents, new laws should be written.

My opinion only.

Moo- the Scoc wants to do, and will do, exactly the opposite.

 

[nuff]

I am stunned that leave was granted. It just doesn't seem like a case that meets the criteria of importance.

I'm going to bet the SCOC supports the appeal decision, on the basis that probate files are, and should remain, public. I think that's an important principle.

 

[nuff]

There is clearly something else in the documents, something specific, that the family vehemently does not want to be made public.

Either that, or it's just in line with their general dislike of public scrutiny. I doubt there's anything to be found in the will(s) that isn't already in the public domain.

 

[dotr]

FWIW.
October 31, 2019
Unrelated, noting because it involves men possibly disguised in order to enter Jewish premises in North York.
Cops investigate ‘suspicious incident’ at Jewish school
The men, dressed as repairmen in yellow vests, went to the Yeshiva Darchei Torah school on Champlain Blvd. claiming to be Rogers Communications employees but couldn’t provide identification and were sent away.

“We responded to a call for a suspicious incident (at the school) reporting two suspicious men entered the school posing as Rogers employees,” said Const. Allyson Douglas-Cook."

 

[Tighthead]

Either that, or it's just in line with their general dislike of public scrutiny. I doubt there's anything to be found in the will(s) that isn't already in the public domain.

Especially as Barry had a second will that didn't require probate. This wasn't a half-cocked plan.

 

[Tobiano8th]

read the book. very good. nothing too new.

4 quick insights from book,

1) mother/son hated each other
2)unhappy home

neither really expanded upon specifically, esp. #1

3) BS doesn't seem like that bad a guy. more like a cantankerous, workaholic. very good with grandkids and other people's kids, but then he can deal with them on only his own terms. i.e. not talk to them for months if he wants.

4) i still held on to M/S to some degree. how could TPD screw up that badly? but it is obvious that they did screw up that badly

 

[Tobiano8th]

fantastic MacLean's interview, much better than CBC podcast.

Who killed Barry and Honey Sherman? A new book offers fascinating insights. - Macleans.ca

 

[Tobiano8th]

anyone know what page that "mother/son hated each other" is? book is not indexed yet. i think it's at very start of a chapter. i'll try to find it.

i would have liked a bit more color of children's upbringing and what they've done until recently. just for better feel for things.

if people are curious, at time of deaths, two daughters were around toronto, son had got back from japan recently, last daughter (oldest?) was in mexico, i think she lives in whistler.

lastly, it was confusing but AP is JS business partner, but not his husband. his husband i think is FM. his first name starts with F if his last name doesn't start with M.

BS just seemed like an extraordinary ATM for people, like a hacked slot machine. JS former boyfriend got so much $$$$$ to buy a house (i think there was interest and/or it needed be paid back). but still got the appreciation on a $10MM house (or something like that). hope i got this approx. correct.

 

[Tobiano8th]

two more insights,

huge difference between amount of $$$$ two older kids got vs. younger kids. probably just learned from dealing with older kids. anybody would ecstatic with how much $$$$ the younger kids got, but still it was a pittance compared to older kids.

HS sister's husband was driving an UBER in florida. why was he doing that? seems like they should have owned alot of stuff, to large degree due to BS/HS association, but maybe i wasn't right in thinking that.. HS was apparently going to get alot of $$$$ from BS and give $300MM to sister. i wonder how that would have worked? would sister have had $300MM? or be running a foundation with $300MM? and then a cynic would say pay herself $500K per year to run it

a bit odd that HS didn't access to significant $$$$$......... with them being married for so long, wouldn't everything have been community property as to death and wills?. of course to get money while alive, BS i'm thinking had segregated account, so she would have to ask/demand the money

 

[Tobiano8th]

book is NOW INDEXED..

so the mother/son quote = page 233, location 2758.

"unhappy home" must have been toronto star article.... EDIT: ok, it's in the book (as i thought), but it's "not a happy home"... page 8, location 24.....

but as mentioned, neither theme is really expanded upon. the "not a happy home" is fairly generic statement and i think we all need to judge for ourselves. i certainly don't find their family dysfunctional, sad or pathetic. seems fairly normal to me.