Either directly or indirectly. It could mean the kids, or someone attached to or close to the kids
Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #12
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Either directly or indirectly. It could mean the kids, or someone attached to or close to the kids
My response in red above.
In some respects, we certainly do!
I personally agree with you that LE should do more updates, both in this case and many others I follow here. I realize LE usually says they cannot divulge anything that could harm an investigation, but I honestly think updates can be done without doing so.
In some cases, if all that can be said is how many investigators have worked on a case or how many tips and leads are coming in, that's better than nothing.
I also believe, in general, LE updates should be done to squelch or possibly confirm SOME rumors that always tend to float around a case. I think some rumors can be actually harmful to a case, long-term.
In some cases, if all that can be said is how many investigators have worked on a case or how many tips and leads are coming in, that's better than nothing.
I also believe, in general, LE updates should be done to squelch or possibly confirm SOME rumors that always tend to float around a case. I think some rumors can be actually harmful to a case, long-term.
I think LE will be criticized no matter what they do, no matter how much they update, etc. (Unless they spill their files and tell us all!) If they told us how many are working on a case, how many leads and tips, we'd be counting and comparing and complaining it's moving to a cold-case file, or some would be complaining that resources are being spent and utilized on this case when there are many others involving 'just everyday people (i.e. not billionaires) who aren't getting the same treatment).. if they told us which reports are rumors, that would be like by default, telling us which rumors *aren't* rumors. So they remain silent. And then when the eventual trial commences, we find out how much they actually knew and were doing behind the scenes. It's all good, as long as there IS an eventual trial! imo.
Unfortunately its not all good. We've seen how LE screwed up on the disappearance of Laura Babcock and the murder of Wayne Millard. LE also bungled the investigation in to the Bruce McArthur murders as well. Lets not forget about how long Paul Bernardo was allowed to run amok after LE had questioned him and obtained his DNA. In these three cases alone, how many people would still be alive today if LE had operated with any sort of efficiency? So no, its not "all good".
As I've said before, there is absolutely a reason for LE to keep some information confidential, however it seems that over the last few decades TPS has used this as an excuse to say absolutely nothing. LE expects the public to help them out whenever they ask, but they need to understand that you can't just communicate with people only when you need something from them. People don't trust the police anymore, and why should they?
Here's the problem (RBBM above)- I wonder if the opposite is the case, and I can't help but wonder if this case is not getting much of any LE attention.
As a citizen, a taxpayer, and a human being, I would like to have some assurance (at least occasionally) from our police service that they are diligently working on solving this and other crimes, instead of them expecting me to just assume that they are working on it. I get they have to keep some stuff secret, of course. But when we hear absolutely nothing, I start to wonder if they are just not engaged.
JMO
Agreed. The police work for you, and they are paid by you. When there is no accountability, how do you know that they are doing a good job. TPS needs to step up their PR game and stop with the stock response "I'm not going to answer that because the investigation is ongoing". I'm not talking about releasing evidence to the public, but what would it hurt to update people as to what has been done in the investigation and what further steps need to be taken? If the case is cold and they aren't working it, I'm fine with that, but at least tell us!
casesensitive
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I agree with most of your concerns. One thing LE will never admit is that an unsolved case is cold and they are no longer working on it. As files for historic unsolved cases are transferred to storage units, they assure the victim's loved ones, and the public, that the investigation is still ongoing. That doesn't mean that they are still working on it. It means that they failed to arrest anybody for whatever reason, and require new evidence to proceed.
Unlike police services in the USA, most Canadian forces haven't realized the benefit of social media and how the public can assist in solving crimes. Canadian police have gone from giving out too much info to the media (eg hold back details) decades ago, to a protocol of complete silence. Even with unsolved cases going back 40 years ago, they won't release info that could help and which doesn't jeopardize the case.
TPS may have good reason to remain tight lipped about the Sherman case, and I totally understand that. But they do have to consider their public image imo. Their investigation has been raked over the coals by mass media, the Sherman kids, and Greenspan. There is good reason for the criticism. They screwed up royally with their recent McArthur serial killing investigation. In light of their poor publicity, one would think that they would sense a need to instill public confidence. It doesn't take much effort to do that. As noted, regular updates on their internationally known murder case might help. How hard is it to say we are following up on tips and are dedicated to solving this case? We only hear them speak when they have to testify before a judge.
IMO, the TPS are the epitome of arrogance. I've never seen another police service come across so poorly. I am pro-police in most cases. They apparently don't care how the public feels about them, and despite the recent notable lack of confidence in them, they remain silent, with their power and privilege intact. If they solve the Sherman case, I will give them all the credit they deserve, but it won't erase how I feel about how they have handled the public. jmo
Unrelated, but curious if the Shermans were acquainted with these people?
Aug 15 2019
‘One billion, here we come’: How a would-be Toronto real estate empire fell apart in the Bridle Path | The Star
‘One billion, here we come’: How a would-be Toronto real estate empire fell apart in the Bridle Path"
Oct. 5, 2011 rbbm.
‘Diet doctor’ claims ex-partner divulged trade secrets | The Star
"Bernstein came under a cloud in 1992 when police charged him with conspiracy to commit murder — a charge later dropped.
He was also accused — but later cleared — of keeping $2 million in stolen goods, including 24 Rolex watches, at his mansion near Bayview and Lawrence Aves.
His lawyer at the time, Edward Greenspan, lambasted the investigation and announced that the doctor was suing Metro police over the news conference they held announcing his arrest."
In 1998, Bernstein and his wife were at home when robbed at gunpoint of $200,000 in cash and jewellery and stuffed in the trunk of their car."
Aug 15 2019
‘One billion, here we come’: How a would-be Toronto real estate empire fell apart in the Bridle Path | The Star
‘One billion, here we come’: How a would-be Toronto real estate empire fell apart in the Bridle Path"
Oct. 5, 2011 rbbm.
‘Diet doctor’ claims ex-partner divulged trade secrets | The Star
"Bernstein came under a cloud in 1992 when police charged him with conspiracy to commit murder — a charge later dropped.
He was also accused — but later cleared — of keeping $2 million in stolen goods, including 24 Rolex watches, at his mansion near Bayview and Lawrence Aves.
His lawyer at the time, Edward Greenspan, lambasted the investigation and announced that the doctor was suing Metro police over the news conference they held announcing his arrest."
In 1998, Bernstein and his wife were at home when robbed at gunpoint of $200,000 in cash and jewellery and stuffed in the trunk of their car."
Not an justification for the apparent lack of activity on the Sherman case, but this summer the TPS has been deluged with a record number of shootings and killings. The media and the politicians are focused on gun violence and the Chief, Mark Saunders, seems to be on TV everyday commenting on the situation. In terms of the media, the politicians and the citizens of Toronto, the Sherman case is extremely low priority compared with the almost daily killings in the GTA.
You can deride the TPS for not pushing more publicly about the Sherman's but with the blood in the streets that is where the their attention is.
You can deride the TPS for not pushing more publicly about the Sherman's but with the blood in the streets that is where the their attention is.
Shifting the narrative to summer gun violence is probably suits Chief Saunders just fine. Nobody cares about a bunch of gangbangers, and aside from initial news reports, most people will never hear about the crimes again. People may forget about Barry and Honey, but they will be reminded yearly about it by the press. 25 years from now, they will be reminded. So you think TPS would be more enthusiastic about solving this case. In my opinion either they have deemed it unsolvable or it was solved on day one.
casesensitive
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I don't think Chief Saunders regards the sharp increase in Toronto gun violence as a welcome relief to having to solve the Sherman deaths. Any gun violence at public venues, or in residential neighbourhoods is a major concern. Innocent bystanders are vulnerable, and have been killed by gangbangers. Both white and black, for the record.
Obviously gun violence is a problem, but it shifts the focus away from TPS's miserable performance over the past few years. And I didn't bring race in to this, you did, we are not legally able to keep track of such things.
I agree that the TPS seems focused on shifting the narrative away from the Sherman murder for some specific reason. The less attention, the better. My guess is that their kids asked LE to keep things as private/on the downlow as possible so they can focus on their philanthropic work and so that they don't have to revisit the trauma of the murders constantly.
But it seems to me they've been quietly making progress based on the update in April that the police have a working theory (Barry and Honey Sherman murder case: Police have working theory and ‘an idea of what happened’ | The Star). I don't think they would have provided this definitive of a statement unless they felt pretty confident in this "theory". Especially with TPS's history of downplaying what they have (just look at the Bruce McArthur case, and how they were making public statements that there's no evidence of an operating serial killer essentially right up until they arrested him). I think they have much more than we know, and it gives me a glimmer of hope that we'll one day know what happened, even if an arrest is impossible.
Elliot_Alderson
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IMO the bodies were placed in the basement to avoid detection for as long as possible. I don't think it has anything to do with facing a certain direction or a certain wall, or to send any specific message in the way they were positioned. Given that the murders were supposedly committed at night, it may not have been possible for the murderer(s) to catch a plane until the following day (assuming they were from outside Canada). I believe the murderers were well out of the country before the bodies were discovered.
Now as for who hired them........
It has been announced that Chief Saunders of the TPS has been given a one year extension of his contract until April 30, 2021. I would think the Toronto Police Services Board is fairly satisfied with the Chief's work, as this is only the second time in forty years a chief has gotten a contract extension.
Now are the conspiracy theorists going to claim that Saunders is getting a pay-off because he squashed the murder -suicide investigation?
Now are the conspiracy theorists going to claim that Saunders is getting a pay-off because he squashed the murder -suicide investigation?
Maybe not, but it seems not everyone is as happy with this as the Toronto mayor appears to be. Nor were some expecting it. I am getting that he may care more about political relationships than looking out for his staff.
But Mike McCormack, TPA president, said he hopes the next police chief will be more supportive of frontline officers, providing them with the supports and tools they need to do the job.
“In the new chief, they’re going to want to see somebody that is addressing the concerns from the frontline,” McCormack said. “There’s a total disconnect right now between this chief and our officers on the street.
The police service is in total disarray, he said, with officers experiencing burn out and low morale.
Meanwhile, gun violence has steadily increased over the past four years, he said.
“We’re surprised that the chief was renewed, quite honestly,” McCormack said.
‘WE’RE SURPRISED’: Toronto Police Chief Saunders has contract extended
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Last year, the union held a no-confidence vote amid what the union called “critically low” levels of officers and morale, saying hiring was not happening fast enough. The vote — wholly symbolic, because the board employs the chief — found that 86 per cent of officers polled did not have confidence in Saunders’ leadership, though less than half of the association’s 7,300 members voted.
Saunders given extra year as Toronto’s top cop. Chief’s critics say extension ‘not a ringing endorsement’ | The Star
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