Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #15

[JDG]

This UK link will not work for me, but maybe others can access it?

Where Was Barry Sherman's Son The Night Of
Parents' Murders?
OK Magazine·18 hours ago

That's not available in 'your country'. Too bad, I'd have loved to read it.

Can anyone find it elsewhere?

OK mag does have different issues for different countries.

 

[JayFriend]

That's not available in 'your country'. Too bad, I'd have loved to read it.

Can anyone find it elsewhere?

OK mag does have different issues for different countries.

I used VPN to see the article. I just links to this, as I mentioned above.
Barry Sherman’s son says his father asked him to repay tens of millions of dollars, two weeks before murders, but Barry was ‘all in’ with son’s business

 

[MistyWaters]

Thanks Misty. With the passage of time, time seems to compress. But just to put things in context, it took TPS (by my estimate) 51 DAYS after the murder to interview KW, based on the timing of his interview that has been reported. We must surely acknowledge that immediately after the murders, KW would certainly have been viewed in any reasonable context as a significant person of interest- certainly IMO in the top 5-7 POI. Can this 51 day period be rationally explained or justified?

I’ve seldom heard of a murder case being solved by an interview of any potential suspect unless one happens to confess. As far as the procedure by which TPS conducts murder investigations in general, I don’t think anyone here can say. However by Jan 26th, 2018 TPS had already interviewed 127 people. That suggests a lot of information gathering took place in those first 42 days over Christmas as well, in addition to reviewing CCTV, the evidence found or taken from the scene, plus execution of search warrants, etc.

 

[casesensitive]

I’ve seldom heard of a murder case being solved by an interview of any potential suspect unless one happens to confess. As far as the procedure by which TPS conducts murder investigations in general, I don’t think anyone here can say. However by Jan 26th, 2018 TPS had already interviewed 127 people. That suggests a lot of information gathering took place in those first 42 days over Christmas as well, in addition to reviewing CCTV, the evidence found or taken from the scene, plus execution of search warrants, etc.

I disagree, many murder cases are solved based on interviews with people who don't confess. Most people don't confess (at least initially). Repeated interviews catch people changing their original statements, and they become POI's or suspects that LE can zero in on, and investigate.

I think it has been proven, and widely accepted, that TPS mainly treated the Sherman case as a Murder/Suicide for the first six weeks. I don't need to list the evidence that backs this up (we have all read it).

We don't know why KW wasn't interviewed until 51 days after the Sherman's murder, but it doesn't take a Sherlock Holmes to know that he was a viable suspect for murder, who was ignored in the initial investigation.

 

[MistyWaters]

I disagree, many murder cases are solved based on interviews with people who don't confess. Most people don't confess (at least initially). Repeated interviews catch people changing their original statements, and they become POI's or suspects that LE can zero in on, and investigate.

I think it has been proven, and widely accepted, that TPS mainly treated the Sherman case as a Murder/Suicide for the first six weeks. I don't need to list the evidence that backs this up (we have all read it).

We don't know why KW wasn't interviewed until 51 days after the Sherman's murder, but it doesn't take a Sherlock Holmes to know that he was a viable suspect for murder, who was ignored in the initial investigation.

Maybe in the movies. When LE question a possible suspect I’d think it’d be wise for enough investigation to have taken place to assess the integrity of the person being interviewed. Otherwise LE do not have the ability to demand an interview here and now - the timing is to the convenience of the person they want to interview. Did KW contact LE or did they contact him, same for the 127 others. We have no way of knowing the dynamics at play within the investigation.

So my question was to KW - I’m just curious how it happened his interview was immediately following the airing of the 5th Estate show?

 

[Tobiano8th]

i've been doing a deep "Dominick Dunne" dive recently..... alot of OJ Simpson, some Edmond/Lily Safra.

but a big Dunne subject B4 OJ was Lyle and Erik Menendez... probably most people are somewhat familiar with it. 18 to 25 year old brothers killed their parents in cold blood and up-close... claimed sexual abuse by father (mother too?). i would say on balance most people didn't believe it although father was not thought to be nice person.

anyway, saw an LAPD detective quote in Dunne's Menendez chapters. said (paraphrase) "if both parents are murdered in their home, it is almost assuredly family-related"........ thought it was interesting commnet ... mafia, that apparently gets blamed by all defense attorneys, doesn't kill people in their homes (although montreal mafia wars says otherwise) and doesn't kill family members (think this is generally correct)/...

 

[ldlager]

i've been doing a deep "Dominick Dunne" dive recently..... alot of OJ Simpson, some Edmond/Lily Safra.

but a big Dunne subject B4 OJ was Lyle and Erik Menendez... probably most people are somewhat familiar with it. 18 to 25 year old brothers killed their parents in cold blood and up-close... claimed sexual abuse by father (mother too?). i would say on balance most people didn't believe it although father was not thought to be nice person.

anyway, saw an LAPD detective quote in Dunne's Menendez chapters. said (paraphrase) "if both parents are murdered in their home, it is almost assuredly family-related"........ thought it was interesting commnet ... mafia, that apparently gets blamed by all defense attorneys, doesn't kill people in their homes (although montreal mafia wars says otherwise) and doesn't kill family members (think this is generally correct)/...

Mafia- recently, I have read that some mafia organizations actually hire gangs or non mafia criminals to do their killings for them. Certainly have read about this in Toronto and Montreal. These hired killers seem less inclined to uphold the traditional mafia "honour motto" of not killing family members, or doing the killing at the victims home. MOO, just based on stuff I have read.

 

[WINDSOR]

Considering probabilities and statistics that are based on historical crimes, one could say in the Sherman case, look at the family connections.
Even if hired hitmen were used, the staging of the bodies, points to an 'emotional relationship' of some sort between the victims and the perps.
A expert in criminal pyschology might be able to determine meaning from why and how the bodies were staged, and from that infer some insight into the perp(s).

As well, I wonder if some photos of Barry and Honey exist that are similar to how the bodies were staged? That also could significant.

Of course this is only my opinion.

 

[MistyWaters]

Considering probabilities and statistics that are based on historical crimes, one could say in the Sherman case, look at the family connections.
Even if hired hitmen were used, the staging of the bodies, points to an 'emotional relationship' of some sort between the victims and the perps.
A expert in criminal pyschology might be able to determine meaning from why and how the bodies were staged, and from that infer some insight into the perp(s).

As well, I wonder if some photos of Barry and Honey exist that are similar to how the bodies were staged? That also could significant.

Of course this is only my opinion.

As we know a m/s did not occur, I look back at what another of Warmington’s sources had initially stated -

BBM

“They both had (belts) wrapped around their necks,” said the source. “It was an execution.”
WARMINGTON: Did cops mislead, bungle or capitulate in Sherman 'murder' probe? | Toronto Sun

The killer/s had various options - staging an accidental death by both (carbon dioxide), staging an accidental death by one (ie falling) suicide by the other (can’t live without), staging of a violent robbery....all involving tragedy, the couple were victims of circumstance.

But no, instead a hanging, execution-style was chosen. As you mention, this is well beyond just a murder, the staging is an exhibit of a message.

IMO that’s a horrific visible display that goes far beyond just an emotional relationship. It’s screams revenge, utter hatred, intent to humiliate and synonymous to execution - “you’re guilty, you deserve to pay with your life”. JMO

 

[ldlager]

If anyone is out there and able to access it, Kevin Donovan is on fda’s tv show in the next 10 mins or so. It’s a rerun, but interesting nonetheless

 

[deugirtni]

If anyone is out there and able to access it, Kevin Donovan is on fda’s tv show in the next 10 mins or so. It’s a rerun, but interesting nonetheless

Dang, missed it this week!

 

[ThaiBali]

I’ve seldom heard of a murder case being solved by an interview of any potential suspect unless one happens to confess. As far as the procedure by which TPS conducts murder investigations in general, I don’t think anyone here can say. However by Jan 26th, 2018 TPS had already interviewed 127 people. That suggests a lot of information gathering took place in those first 42 days over Christmas as well, in addition to reviewing CCTV, the evidence found or taken from the scene, plus execution of search warrants, etc.

Seriously, it maybe an idea if you were to google this subject, you'd find the correct answer. Being caught out in an interview happens frequently.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

If anyone is out there and able to access it, Kevin Donovan is on fda’s tv show in the next 10 mins or so. It’s a rerun, but interesting nonetheless

I’m going to need a full report on this: what they talked about, tone, if they made jokes...every last detail.

 

[deugirtni]

I said I'd take notes next time I saw it come on, but I missed it this week and I missed ldlager's post too! Ugh!

 

[dotr]

This seems to be the promo ad for the show with KD and F DA, looking for a full download.
Apr 24, 2020

 

[Sherlock Bones]

I have always thought this this case involved hired killers from out of country. Is it possible that the detectives can track all the local suspects internet and phone records to out of country contacts and/or look at all flights inbound and outbound to Canada from November 1st-January 1st with a filter of male, aged 25-60, travelled alone or in a pair (likely two-3 people killed the Shermans), with possible criminal records?

I think someone family, colleague, rival business hired these hitmen who had some knowledge of the Sherman's schedule. There has to be a record of these killers coming and going from the country some where. Or even from Buffalo/New York, and crossed the boarder. I think the smoking gun lies with these travel documents.

 

[ldlager]

I’m going to need a full report on this: what they talked about, tone, if they made jokes...every last detail.

the interview took place when KD’s book came out, so it’s not new and contained nothing we don’t already know now. Fda was a little emotional, (or at least acted like he was) claiming bs was his “best friend” and “partner” for 18 years.

 

[WINDSOR]

I have always thought this this case involved hired killers from out of country. Is it possible that the detectives can track all the local suspects internet and phone records to out of country contacts and/or look at all flights inbound and outbound to Canada from November 1st-January 1st with a filter of male, aged 25-60, travelled alone or in a pair (likely two-3 people killed the Shermans), with possible criminal records?

I think someone family, colleague, rival business hired these hitmen who had some knowledge of the Sherman's schedule. There has to be a record of these killers coming and going from the country some where. Or even from Buffalo/New York, and crossed the boarder. I think the smoking gun lies with these travel documents.

I think you have described the exact scenario of what happened. I do believe (ever the optimist) this is the scenario the TPS is working with. They have evidence that they have not realeased to the public that would validate your theory. They have border records, they have some video of comings and goings on Old Colony Rd. the day of the murders, and similar bits and pieces of evidence.
I am speculating the problems TPS have.
***The TPS do not have the correct names and identities of the foreign nationals involved, so they cannot interview them.
***They do not have evidence of a communication between the hitmen and the people who employed them, such as a transfer of money or discussuions about the hits.
***The TPS may have a motive, which is 'Dad is going bonkers and is unhinged. He keeps giving money to crazies like FDA, losing big lawsuits and so on. If he does not stop he will blow all our inheritences. Something drastic has to be done!'
*** The TPS will keep searching for the bits of evidence that will link everything together before they lay charges. They have to have an ironclad case, because the best defense lawyers will be hired, and the defense will have a huge budget to work with. I really believe that time is on the side of the TPS.

 

[dotr]

Random thoughts about the open window.
Reminded of a young murdered yeshiva student whose bedroom window was left open, a detail, which LE treated as an important clue because that action pointed to the possibility that the perp might be Jewish.
Apparently following a death, in Jewish tradition a window is left open to allow the soul to depart.

Did someone know about the painters at the house and did they think the open window in the Sherman basement was particularly handy not only to serve as a potential entry and exit point for the killer/s, but for the '' departing spirits '' Shermans?
SPECULATION, IMO.

2019
WARMINGTON: 'Window was left open' as Sherman home painted | Toronto Sun
''Not because the I Heard You Paint Houses book, turned into the hitman movieThe Irishman, could be a metaphor for this bizarre mystery — but because actual painters were working in the home at 150 Old Colony Rd.
And that a window was left open after they left''.
“The window was left open to clear the smell of the paint from the area,” explained a family friend.
Could that detail show an entry or exit point in a home showing no forced entry?''


When Death Occurs - My Jewish Learning
''Jewish laws regarding death and burial begin the moment the person dies, and focus on maintaining the dignity of the deceased person.

In the moments leading up to death, no one should leave the room except in extreme emergencies. The person is never to feel as if he or she is being left alone.''
''Some people also open a window in the room, in order to allow the soul to depart''.

$25K reward in murder of Chaim Weiss
''Police said that there was no sign of forced entry, but that the window in Weiss’s room was left open. This was significant, Azzata said, because it corresponded with Jewish tradition that a window should be left open when a person dies, in order for the soul to depart — something that led police in the 1980s to believe the killer was familiar with Jewish ritual.''
Ws thread..
NY - NY - Chaim Weiss, 15, Long Beach, 1 Nov 1986

 

[Kerry Winter]

Something has always puzzled me:

Dr. Michael Pickup, the lead pathologist does the autopsy on Barry and Honey December 16th, the day after their bodies were discovered. Pickup’s boss was also present: Dr. Michael Pollamen, including the lead homicide detectives. Whatever their findings were, the police continue to only seek warrants with Chief Justice Pringle solely in relation to Honey’s murder/death. A few days later, Greenspan’s team seek and get permission to do their own 2nd autopsy on the 20th, before the funeral. Dr. David Chiasson was joined by Pickup, Klatt and other members of Greenspan’s team. After they both determine that it’s not M/S, but a double murder....the TPS wait a MONTH and it’s not til after KD’s article appears in The Star, after January 19 that the TPS decide to interview Chiasson. Then, Gomes press conference.

Note: that in ALL warrant and production order applications filed by the police with the court, between Dec 20-Jan 15, a total of 14....Honey is a victim of a crime, not Barry. It appears the police were pretty sure Barry killed himself and the hyoid bone in his neck wasn’t broken....an almost sure sign it wasn’t strangulation.

Why would Price and Gomes wait a month....busy doing other things or didn’t take an interest in Greenspan and Chiasson’s findings for some inexplicable reason. Could it be the TPS had made up their minds and it was a slam dunk M/S?!?!

They certainly weren’t anxious to chat with me.