Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #15

[WINDSOR]

Dr. Pickup's autopsy, which had determined that both Shermans had died by ligature neck compression,
This was the 'official' result. The second autopsy agreed. The big question that keeps getting debated over and over is who applied the ligatures. If Barry applied the ligatures we have a murder sucide case. If someone else applied the ligatures then it was a homicide. The first 'official' autopsy noticed marks on the wrists of both victims. If these marks were signs of restraints, then the probability that Barry restrained his own wrists is very low, therefore M/S is unlikely. However if you believe Bary was some sort of evil genius and wanted to confuse investigators he could have made marks on his wrists.
So alone working with just the first autopsy the TPS had probable cause to investigate the deaths as a M/M. In the many months that have passed, there has been no evidence that refutes the M/M theory.

I do know one thing, the perpertrators of this crime would like everybody to believe it was a murder/suicide.
MOO

 

[Errrr]

I know it’s a theory, but why might they want to stall the investigation now?

I know there was some controversy over Mayor Tory getting involved early on.

eta: I hope you get this notification : )

Maybe the longer it goes on, the more they get paid?

 

[Rush4087]

The move would see the couple leave the six-bedroom, nine-bathroom North York house they’d called home since 1991; they’d moved in after five years of construction. When they discovered the work did not meet their standards, they launched more than a dozen lawsuits against architects, contractors and tennis-court designers. At one point, Sherman testified that the house was a “disaster.” At the core of the dispute was an allegedly faulty garage structure with a tennis court on top and a sauna and underground pool inside—the location where the Shermans’ bodies would be found. By the time the court battles were resolved, the couple recouped close to $2 million of the estimated $2.3-million construction costs.

Sherman wasn’t keen on moving from the house on Old Colony Road, but was doing it for Honey. “He just said: ‘You know, I wish I was staying here, but my wife wants to move so we’re moving,’ ” says Frank D’Angelo, Sherman’s close friend and business partner in non-Apotex ventures.

On Nov. 27, their house was listed for $6.9 million, described as an “architectural modern masterpiece.” Why the Shermans were selling when contractors hadn’t begun to build their new home isn’t clear.
Endless court battles, angry relatives and shady players: the truth about Barry Sherman

I can't help, but I think, the most reasons for retribution on both of the Shermans (presenting them sitting dead at the pool railing) had the former crew of builders. Of course the outrageously high ten son JS had motive too, it seems. Right following him I would tend to suspect someone of the former builders.
After that, the innumerable enemies in any order are on my list. - A gut feeling and speculation and worth nothing, I know.

Good points FromGermany. They ended up paying 300k for a 2.3m dollar home. Just add those former architects, builders and subcontractors to the hundreds... no, thousands...of individuals who might have had reason to dislike, or motive to harm, the S's. Sad but true, I think.

I can't imagine any prospective architect or general contractor who, having prior knowledge of BS's past actions - or having read BS's "Legacy of Thoughts" - actually sitting down with the S's to discuss a new house project and contract terms.

Vexatious litigation, the weaponization of lawyers, the abuse of law (legal bullying, imo), and the exploitation of loopholes. There are books and msm articles and case documents and transcripts and scientists/researchers and investigations and levied fines and TV shows and businesspeople and journalists and shareholders and relatives and victims - all documenting and evidencing this. That's the "legacy", imo.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I can't imagine any prospective architect or general contractor who, having prior knowledge of BS's past actions - or having read BS's "Legacy of Thoughts" - actually sitting down with the S's to discuss a new house project and contract terms.

My thoughts exactly. That "dream home" would have become the disaster 2.0, one may assume. The construction companies could have filed for bankrupty right at the start probably.

 

[MistyWaters]

Good points FromGermany. They ended up paying 300k for a 2.3m dollar home. Just add those former architects, builders and subcontractors to the hundreds... no, thousands...of individuals who might have had reason to dislike, or motive to harm, the S's. Sad but true, I think.

I can't imagine any prospective architect or general contractor who, having prior knowledge of BS's past actions - or having read BS's "Legacy of Thoughts" - actually sitting down with the S's to discuss a new house project and contract terms.

Vexatious litigation, the weaponization of lawyers, the abuse of law (legal bullying, imo), and the exploitation of loopholes. There are books and msm articles and case documents and transcripts and scientists/researchers and investigations and levied fines and TV shows and businesspeople and journalists and shareholders and relatives and victims - all documenting and evidencing this. That's the "legacy", imo.

I don’t think it’s necessarily true they only paid 300k for a 2.3m dollar home. In Canada homeowners can only sue for out-of-pocket costs. So in conjunction with winning the lawsuit for the faulty construction that was assumably billed and paid for, another contractor would still be required to rip out the faulty work and proceed with proper construction of the renovations. This is no different than faulty anything that’s been paid for, then money is refunded to buy a replacement. It’s puts the purchaser back to square of paying for whatever they set out to do in the first place, it’s not free.

Considering the construction horror stories of shoddy workmanship which still abound throughout the land to this very day, lawsuits filed accordingly, why would it be expected a consumer who gets stung should pay for repairs twice and just suck it up to a bad experience? Much like any guarantee, if a construction company won’t repair substandard work then the only remedy is filling a civil suit.

I think this is only a glorified side story with absolutely no connection to the homicides. JMO

 

[Lexiintoronto]

The move would see the couple leave the six-bedroom, nine-bathroom North York house they’d called home since 1991; they’d moved in after five years of construction. When they discovered the work did not meet their standards, they launched more than a dozen lawsuits against architects, contractors and tennis-court designers. At one point, Sherman testified that the house was a “disaster.” At the core of the dispute was an allegedly faulty garage structure with a tennis court on top and a sauna and underground pool inside—the location where the Shermans’ bodies would be found. By the time the court battles were resolved, the couple recouped close to $2 million of the estimated $2.3-million construction costs.

Sherman wasn’t keen on moving from the house on Old Colony Road, but was doing it for Honey. “He just said: ‘You know, I wish I was staying here, but my wife wants to move so we’re moving,’ ” says Frank D’Angelo, Sherman’s close friend and business partner in non-Apotex ventures.

On Nov. 27, their house was listed for $6.9 million, described as an “architectural modern masterpiece.” Why the Shermans were selling when contractors hadn’t begun to build their new home isn’t clear.
Endless court battles, angry relatives and shady players: the truth about Barry Sherman

I can't help, but I think, the most reasons for retribution on both of the Shermans (presenting them sitting dead at the pool railing) had the former crew of builders. Of course the outrageously high ten son JS had motive too, it seems. Right following him I would tend to suspect someone of the former builders.
After that, the innumerable enemies in any order are on my list. - A gut feeling and speculation and worth nothing, I know.

I agree with all that you wrote. In KD’s book he spoke of another home BS had built. He wrote that a toilet wasn’t installed by the correct date, so that issue became one small part of an eventual lawsuit against the builders.



The timing makes sense as well. The day before the murders Toronto Life published a glowing article about the house and how it was for sale (6.9 million).

(After the murders and the house was demolished, the land sold for 4.25 million.)

 

[casesensitive]

I don’t think it’s necessarily true they only paid 300k for a 2.3m dollar home. In Canada homeowners can only sue for out-of-pocket costs. So in conjunction with winning the lawsuit for the faulty construction that was assumably billed and paid for, another contractor would still be required to rip out the faulty work and proceed with proper construction of the renovations. This is no different than faulty anything that’s been paid for, then money is refunded to buy a replacement. It’s puts the purchaser back to square of paying for whatever they set out to do in the first place, it’s not free.

Considering the construction horror stories of shoddy workmanship which still abound throughout the land to this very day, lawsuits filed accordingly, why would it be expected a consumer who gets stung should pay for repairs twice and just suck it up to a bad experience? Much like any guarantee, if a construction company won’t repair substandard work then the only remedy is filling a civil suit.

I think this is only a glorified side story with absolutely no connection to the homicides. JMO

I agree, no judge would award damages without proof of the costs to tear down and rebuild significant deficiencies. I read that there were structural problems ( still looking for the source) which is a major deficiency that affects everything built around and on top of it.

The Sherman's bought the 50 Old Colony Road site in 1985, and it took five years after construction began before they could move in. Per KD's book, the lawsuits dragged on for six years.

The fact that 50 Colony Road was up for sale wouldn't incite the sued builders or architects to violently kill the Sherman's three decades later imo. They had 32 years to get revenge if they were so inspired.

 

[deugirtni]

Wish I had his wherewithall in pursuing action when one is an aggrieved party. Many people, unfortunately myself included, just can't deal with it or really know how to proceed. If a contractor signs a contract, it isn't meaningless. If they don't like the terms or the deadlines, they shouldn't sign the contract. There are a lot of contractors who just shouldn't be in business. I have a feeling, don't know for sure, but I doubt if a judge would award a judgement in favor of the applicant if it was just a frivolous complaint, such as just the toilet wasn't installed on the right day. I'm sure as a businessman, Barry too was sued numerous times, and I'm sure he didn't always 'win'. KD is just wrong in how he has worded the issue with the Sherman home and would recoup most of the cost of construction. He does not elaborate on what the costs were to deal with those screwups, as MW has mentioned above. Renos are always more costly than 'new'. jmo.

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree, no judge would award damages without proof of the costs to tear down and rebuild significant deficiencies. I read that there were structural problems ( still looking for the source) which is a major deficiency that affects everything built around and on top of it.

The Sherman's bought the 50 Old Colony Road site in 1985, and it took five years after construction began before they could move in. Per KD's book, the lawsuits dragged on for six years.

The fact that 50 Colony Road was up for sale wouldn't incite the sued builders or architects to violently kill the Sherman's three decades later imo. They had 32 years to get revenge if they were so inspired.

I agree. There was a lot of discussion about the home renos early on as well. Comparing the listing price at the time to other nearby properties plus the fact the home was obviously dated inside and out, it appeared it was listed for not much more than lot value in a prestigious area...ie as a rip down. Reno’s from three decades ago are definitely not an attractive selling feature.

 

[deugirtni]

I agree, no judge would award damages without proof of the costs to tear down and rebuild significant deficiencies. I read that there were structural problems ( still looking for the source) which is a major deficiency that affects everything built around and on top of it.

The Sherman's bought the 50 Old Colony Road site in 1985, and it took five years after construction began before they could move in. Per KD's book, the lawsuits dragged on for six years.

The fact that 50 Colony Road was up for sale wouldn't incite the sued builders or architects to violently kill the Sherman's three decades later imo. They had 32 years to get revenge if they were so inspired.

While it is extremely unlikely the murders were anything to do with the 32 year old home-building lawsuits, hopefully it is at least worth TPS looking into it. We have seen so many times where grudges fester away for YEARS until something springs the grudge into action. What if one of those lawsuits had destroyed one of the families involved into suffering in unexpected ways for years afterward, with perhaps life-changing, unexpected results.. perhaps a grudge held by an offspring of one of the business owners involved, perhaps an off-balanced offspring, who was old enough at the time to hear all the chaos it had potentially created in their family, etc. And then that article comes out, touting the home as being an 'architectural masterpiece'. Nothing is too far out to not bother following up on, imho.

 

[casesensitive]

While it is extremely unlikely the murders were anything to do with the 32 year old home-building lawsuits, hopefully it is at least worth TPS looking into it. We have seen so many times where grudges fester away for YEARS until something springs the grudge into action. What if one of those lawsuits had destroyed one of the families involved into suffering in unexpected ways for years afterward, with perhaps life-changing, unexpected results.. perhaps a grudge held by an offspring of one of the business owners involved, perhaps an off-balanced offspring, who was old enough at the time to hear all the chaos it had potentially created in their family, etc. And then that article comes out, touting the home as being an 'architectural masterpiece'. Nothing is too far out to not bother following up on, imho.
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You are right, grudges can fester for years, until something kick starts renewed revenge like the sale of the Sherman's home. Hopefully they were on TPS's list, and especially anyone who displayed mental problems.

As you stated, a person who was sued 3 decades ago, or their offspring, could have reason for revenge. But the brutality of the killings, and having the expertise to leave no evidence to incriminate them makes it unlikely that Joe the plumber orchestrated it, or anyone else involved in that law suit. JMO

 

[al66pine]

Litigation in Ontario?

I don’t think it’s necessarily true they only paid 300k for a 2.3m dollar home. In Canada homeowners can only sue for out-of-pocket costs. So in conjunction with winning the lawsuit for the faulty construction that was assumably billed and paid for, another contractor would still be required to rip out the faulty work and proceed with proper construction of the renovations. This is no different than faulty anything that’s been paid for, then money is refunded to buy a replacement. It’s puts the purchaser back to square of paying for whatever they set out to do in the first place, it’s not free. JMO

@MistyWaters snipped form focus. Agreeing w ^part of your post. Okay, "only sue for out-of-pocket costs" for damages to compensate for the flawed construction.
So, in Ontario breach of contract actions, would BS's legal fees and costs have been awarded to him?
Kinda doubtful law firm(s) did that pro bono. my2ct.

 

[MistyWaters]

Litigation in Ontario?
@MistyWaters snipped form focus. Agreeing w ^part of your post. Okay, "only sue for out-of-pocket costs" for damages to compensate for the flawed construction.
So, in Ontario breach of contract actions, would BS's legal fees and costs have been awarded to him?
Kinda doubtful law firm(s) did that pro bono. my2ct.

When legal costs are awarded they’re fees that’ve been incurred. So yes, often legal fees are awarded to whomever wins a civil suit to compensate for that expense.

Regarding the construction/reno civil suit, I notice only two defendants refused to settle.

Barry and Honey Sherman sued builders of North York home (not paylocked)
“They went on to sue at least five of the people and companies involved in the home’s design and construction, including Jack Winston Designs, Thomas Marzotto Architects and Ewing Construction.

All but two settled.

The remaining two defendants, 21 Degrees Heating and Air Conditioning and Walter Kenyon of Walter Kenyon Designs, had designed the home’s heating and air conditioning system.”

The Shermans sued 21 Degrees and Kenyon for negligence related to the design of the HVAC system, and 21 Degrees for breach of contract.”

 

[al66pine]

As @deugirtni said, if contractor & sub's thought contract terms offered were not feasible, why agree? Did BS and/or architect select sketchy, fly by night outfits or total noobs as subs? Doubtful.

Failure to install one toilet per scheduled time?
As @Lexiintoronto said, more to it than what JD's book related about Fred's potty anecdote.
Construction requires certain sequences.
Not like the roofers can start working, before the foundation is poured.

Seems likely everyone involved had high expectations for a 12,000 sq ft home w those amenities.
Likely true, 30 yrs ago and today as well. my2ct.

 

[JDG]

Why does a family of six, need nine bathrooms? lol

When I saw the house, just before the demolition, it looked very dated and the stucco was filthy.

We have a lot of stucco 'mansions' around the hood and they look okay when new but after a few years of pollution, they look dreadfully grimy.

 

[casesensitive]

Shernaman contined his

All but two settled.

The remaining two defendants, 21 Degrees Heating and Air Conditioning and Walter Kenyon of Walter Kenyon Designs, had designed the home’s heating and air conditioning system.”

The Shermans sued 21 Degrees and Kenyon for negligence related to the design of the HVAC system, and 21 Degrees for breach of contract.”

Per KD's book, BS lost the suit against the defendants, and had to pay $110,000 in legal costs. There is no doubt that he gathered enemies over his lifetime going back decades. I think that the enemy who killed him (and Honey) had a currant motive, not one from decades ago.

 

[ldlager]

Why does a family of six, need nine bathrooms? lol

When I saw the house, just before the demolition, it looked very dated and the stucco was filthy.

We have a lot of stucco 'mansions' around the hood and they look okay when new but after a few years of pollution, they look dreadfully grimy.

why so many bathrooms? Maybe lots of a@@es in the house.

 

[dotr]

Cannot recall if the 10 million$ reward still stands, but found this sentiment about rewards in general interesting- rbbm.
What money can't buy: information
2007
''Money is offered for "evidence leading to the arrest and conviction" of the culprit. That evidence must be given in court and prosecutors must successfully convict the accused - a deterrent for would-be snitches.

Yet a reward can be valuable in other ways. If a suspect is under surveillance, the announcement of a reward can bring incriminating phone calls or other giveaways.


"It might get the bad guy or bad girl thinking, 'Which one of my friends is going to rat me out for a hundred grand?' " Mr. Mendelson says.''

Dec 16, 2019

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I stand by my theory: Barry and Honey had an argument which turned physical....Barry injured Honey's fragile neck [prior surgeries]. The altercation occurred in another part of the house. When Barry realized that Honey was dead, he had someone close to him complete the scenario. Barry could not face the shame. He could not commit an ordinary suicide....that would forever paint him as a murderer. That someone followed Barry's instructions that led to the two bodies sitting by the swimming pool. That scenario explains everything: no shame, perfect double homicide, plenty of time to contact and convince someone to help him complete the scenario, no shadow on the family, wipes out possible guilt of family members. Barry was a controller. He could do that. He had the intelligence to plan all this out.

.

I think I should apologize to you for what I’m sure sounded dismissive of what you wrote, or anyone in general who might have a different view of what might have happened in this case.

You were right that the early reports from the media made this sound like a m/s. They relied on police sources. I believed that coverage at that time.

I personally have faith in what the police have officially said about the case, and I believe in KD’s coverage. But I could be wrong.

 

[al66pine]

Bathrooms?

Why does a family of six, need nine bathrooms? ...

@JDG sbm The post may have posed question rhetorically, but I'll dive right in.
Why need? IDK.
Why have? No sarc/snark: because in having 12,000 sq ft house built, homeowner could afford it.
{ETA: Semi-off topic. Bill & Melinda Gates & their three children live in 66,000+ sq ft house, w 24 bathrooms w 10 baths, but only 7 bedrooms.
25 facts about Bill Gates’s Medina mansion (2017)
19 Crazy Facts About Bill Gates' $123 Million Washington Mansion (2014)
Billionaire homes: Homes Of The Billionaires (2007) }

How many? Per my memory of floor plans from waaay back, so accuracy is not guaranteed:
Couple's master bed/bath = 1. Ea. child, ensuite bed/bath = 4. Powder room, 1/2 bath = 6 baths
And: Overnight-guest ensuite bed/bath? = 1? Living qrtrs for live-in employee? = 1 ? Indoor & outdoor swimming pools, 1 shared, or 1 each? So 3 more baths? Total = 9 bathrooms.

Iirc, there's a room & bathroom on indoor pool level. I had impression, it was possibly for live-in employee?
In the past, a nanny when kids were young? Housekeeper? Home health aide in future?