It seems ridiculous to believe that if HS expected to receive $100-$500 million, she would have promised to give $300-$500 million of this amount to MS.
CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18
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It seems ridiculous to believe that if HS expected to receive $100-$500 million, she would have promised to give $300-$500 million of this amount to MS.
Funny, just as HS was talking about giving money to family, BS was asking to get money back. imo.
Many lined up at the ‘Bank of Barry’ Sherman: Inside the $10 billion succession battle | The Star
''One family member who has been completely shut out is Mary Shechtman, Honey’s sister and best friend, who had hoped to play an important role in the Sherman philanthropy. A comment she made following the murders, that Honey promised her a $300 million gift (she told me it was really $500 million but she decided to give the lower figure), upset the four Sherman children. Mary said she believes the real root of the rift was another comment she made — “I am the oldest surviving member of my family, I am too young to be a matriarch.” Regardless, she has no say in the Sherman charities, despite Jonathon’s comment in his eulogy that he wanted “Aunt Mary” to guide the charitable works “in a way that best honours our parents.”
Barry Sherman’s son says his father asked him to repay tens of millions of dollars, two weeks before murders, but Barry was ‘all in’ with son’s business | Crime | toronto.com
''In a back and forth email exchange in December leading up to our interview, the 37-year-old businessman explained his desire to provide “context” to his father’s request — two weeks before his death — that Jonathon and business partner Adam Paulin pay back between $50 million and $60 million that Barry had loaned them. His father, Jonathon said, was in a difficult financial situation but vowed to restart the flow of cash down the road.''
Many lined up at the ‘Bank of Barry’ Sherman: Inside the $10 billion succession battle | The Star
''One family member who has been completely shut out is Mary Shechtman, Honey’s sister and best friend, who had hoped to play an important role in the Sherman philanthropy. A comment she made following the murders, that Honey promised her a $300 million gift (she told me it was really $500 million but she decided to give the lower figure), upset the four Sherman children. Mary said she believes the real root of the rift was another comment she made — “I am the oldest surviving member of my family, I am too young to be a matriarch.” Regardless, she has no say in the Sherman charities, despite Jonathon’s comment in his eulogy that he wanted “Aunt Mary” to guide the charitable works “in a way that best honours our parents.”
Barry Sherman’s son says his father asked him to repay tens of millions of dollars, two weeks before murders, but Barry was ‘all in’ with son’s business | Crime | toronto.com
''In a back and forth email exchange in December leading up to our interview, the 37-year-old businessman explained his desire to provide “context” to his father’s request — two weeks before his death — that Jonathon and business partner Adam Paulin pay back between $50 million and $60 million that Barry had loaned them. His father, Jonathon said, was in a difficult financial situation but vowed to restart the flow of cash down the road.''
Don't want to speak for Rush, but suggest you read that post again.
Requoted from Rush "'''I’m also not sure we can say that the existence and contents of any HS will would not have mattered anyway as the beneficiaries would’ve still been the 4 children.'''
Thus my question- If HS had a Will why would anyone automatically assume the beneficiaries would have been the 4 children?
No one did.
After re reading that run-on sentence in my earlier post, I admit it was poorly worded. It contained a double negative and probably should have been 2 or even 3 sentences instead of one.
What I tried to say was: “I think it would be wrong for anybody to suggest that the existence of a HS will would not matter - regardless of who the named beneficiaries might’ve been. Oops. I’ve done it again!
I never said or assumed that HS’s will (which may not even exist) named the 4 children as beneficiaries. No one could know that.
Although I didn’t link to it, that part of my post was actually in response to part of an earlier MistyWaters post (#707) in which she said: “It is also possible her will wasn’t located and even if a lawyer with a copy came forward, rather than the Trustees attempting to have it legalized in the Courts, if she named the children as beneficiaries it wouldn’t be worth the effort as either way they were next of kin.”
I was simply saying: “We do not know that a will exists, - but even if one does exist, we do not know who the named beneficiaries would be. If such a will exists though, it matters - no matter who the beneficiaries are (jmo).
And as MistyWaters pointed out, if no such will exists, the assets would automatically go to next of kin.
“I’m not going to kill my dad because he needs $50 million to get through a crisis,” Jonathon will later say over the course of a five-hour chat, confronting suggestions by some that he was involved.
The above is interesting in that his inheritance would be more like over 1 billion dollars (over 20x 50 million) since each of BS's four children would get one-quarter of everything if HS died before BS, but if BS died before HS then HS would get all of the money to do with it what she wanted. Thus, both of their deaths would lead to their children inheriting all of the money directly ASAP.
The above is interesting in that his inheritance would be more like over 1 billion dollars (over 20x 50 million) since each of BS's four children would get one-quarter of everything if HS died before BS, but if BS died before HS then HS would get all of the money to do with it what she wanted. Thus, both of their deaths would lead to their children inheriting all of the money directly ASAP.
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FromGermany1
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I don't understand, why MS should have thought to be a significant beneficiary to HS' inheritance, when she indeed expected to be given the $ millions during the lifetime of HS already, as promised by her sister. Maybe, it was even a done deal between the sisters, that MS would soon get a huge sum of money, but wouldn't have a part in inheritance after HS' death sometime in the future. Now, that no LW was found after the sudden murder in 2017, MS had the disadvantage of the verbal agreement.
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“I’m not going to kill my dad because he needs 50 million to get through a crisis.”
That comment by JS has always bothered me. I think it reveals an inability to see things from another person’s perspective - and maybe even reveals an inability to empathize with other people.
I think several of his e-mails to his father re: succession, AP, BS’s lending to FD’A - as well as some of the comments he made at the memorial service directed “to” HS - might also reveal that personality trait: egocentric, bordering on narcissistic (jmo).
In reply to those who were suggesting that JS might have been involved in his parent’s deaths due to BS’s demand that JS and AP quickly repay 50 million that BS had lent them, I think most people would have expected JS to say something like: “I’m not going to kill my dad just to avoid having to repay 50 million on short notice.”
But before making a reply, he first rephrases the question in a way that implies that the problem was not that JS needed to repay 50 million on short notice - it was that BS was in NEED of 50 million on short notice. Not JS’s problem, but BS’s problem (a crisis, in fact).
I think JS obfuscates and pretends not to see the basic logic behind the question by presenting a straw man argument: Why would JS kill his dad over something that didn’t affect JS? What a silly question! Next!
All jmo
That comment by JS has always bothered me. I think it reveals an inability to see things from another person’s perspective - and maybe even reveals an inability to empathize with other people.
I think several of his e-mails to his father re: succession, AP, BS’s lending to FD’A - as well as some of the comments he made at the memorial service directed “to” HS - might also reveal that personality trait: egocentric, bordering on narcissistic (jmo).
In reply to those who were suggesting that JS might have been involved in his parent’s deaths due to BS’s demand that JS and AP quickly repay 50 million that BS had lent them, I think most people would have expected JS to say something like: “I’m not going to kill my dad just to avoid having to repay 50 million on short notice.”
But before making a reply, he first rephrases the question in a way that implies that the problem was not that JS needed to repay 50 million on short notice - it was that BS was in NEED of 50 million on short notice. Not JS’s problem, but BS’s problem (a crisis, in fact).
I think JS obfuscates and pretends not to see the basic logic behind the question by presenting a straw man argument: Why would JS kill his dad over something that didn’t affect JS? What a silly question! Next!
All jmo
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Got it- thanks for clarifying
Yes, interesting. Those words would be more expected from B if he was talking about his son, and his son had instead been murdered. I have noticed that type of thing in other stated communications between JS and BS, wherein it seemed like JS thought he was 'the boss', and had, or should have, all of the entitlements in life, money and business, that his dad had. jmo.
sammarlowe
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The Break-In Artist: the hunt for the cat burglar who terrorized Toronto's wealthiest neighbourhoods
Interesting article about an accomplished and brutal Toronto thief who burgled wealthy homes from upstairs windows, balconies, skylights, and rooves. Didn't the Sherman's have a burglary occur from a skylight a couple years before the murder?
Interesting article about an accomplished and brutal Toronto thief who burgled wealthy homes from upstairs windows, balconies, skylights, and rooves. Didn't the Sherman's have a burglary occur from a skylight a couple years before the murder?
A bit of chatter about that intriguing string of break ins..
CANADA - Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #17"]Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #17
sammarlowe
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It's an interesting article, they mention the security company Avante. The name Avante might be familiar to anyone who has walked around the neighborhood Forest Hill. I wonder what security company the Sherman's used. I remember reading that they had alarm that they would sometimes activate; and that it wasn't activated the morning their bodies were found.
Bobbi Pearl
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Who initially shared the reason for the request to return the 50 million? is this in the emails between BS & JS that BS specifically told JS he needed it to deal with a crisis and for a repayment?
- makes me curious if it was JS that added the reasoning that BS asked for it back to cover debt repayment? - because most other people close to BS stated that he was not bothered by the 500 mil for Apotex to repay, nor to lay off staff, BS spent 50 mil of Apotex money on a US warehouse purchase at the same time he was recalling the JS/AP loan to the Sherfam business. Also at this time the discussions of building a 30 mil home, gifting 100's millions to his wife were happening and that $$ would come from the Sherfam coffers, not Apotex.
I think about the little nagging details we do know like the hint HS left that she missed a meeting the day or two before her death-dealing with a personal issue, BS asking for JS and AP to find other funding to support their business after refusing to include AP in the succession planning. Another nagging detail is the friendship of JS and his brother-in-law, who are both aware of what the will content was updated with - JS stated his sister thought he was involved - his sister and this brother-in-law separated after the murders. All of the above could be easily misinterpreted and lack detail to provide a valid reason for the sister to possibly have this thought, what gave her that idea, what detail made her stomach sink, and her fear he was involved? What stress did that bring to a marriage with a newborn child that created a separation? (I hope they have reunited by now)
The other nagging question that runs in my head that I know I will never know the answer to is the close friends sharing that BS & HS admitted they messed up and spoiled the first 2 children and did not instill any work ethics in them, that to the 2 of them money did grow on a tree and was always there when they asked for it. Once they became adults the $$ was expected and they decided not to treat the 2 younger children in the same way. What family dynamic this would be. Did BS & HS tell children 1&2 that that is it, make do with what you have, we will support in smaller amounts like we do children 3&4?
.
Bobbi Pearl
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Just had an ah-ha moment, sorry if someone already posted this idea, I wonder if the Thursday visitor was the alarm company checking to see why the alarm system was off? Are the missed calls on HS's cell phone from the alarm company? Did BS have calls as well, if yes what time did the calls start?
Wonder who is on the authorized call list (who do they contact if the alarm is going off or no longer communicating with the home base/alarm service)?
** The alarm system could have been off so as not to impede the showings. Or the alarm company could easily assume seeing the sign on the lawn?
Thanks Bobbi. Just a small comment- despite the fact that JS seemingly had access to large amounts of capital from BS, he did create a business, invested the funds to grow the business, and by some accounts worked in the business. I don't think he just got $ and spent it on himself, like others might do, and I do interpret the situation to be that he and his partner were actively building a business. Now they did have access to BS capital, but I don't think we can blame JS for that. MOO
Bobbi Pearl
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I just want to say that I am not blaming anyone for anything, only pointing out my confusion on how to interpret the few details that we believe are facts.
However I must add based on your suggestion, JS was expressing how better of a businessman he was than BS, yet BS loaned him all this $$ to set up the businesses and JS never had enough profit to reinvest in his own next adventures? He always needed to go to BS for more? This has always confused me, if JS has been "given" over 100 million over the years, where are the profits he is making from this $$ he is using to build businesses? Who is profiting from these businesses?
BS used to register loans or mortgages for way more than the actual $ advanced. For example, he may have loaned $10 million on a property, but he would register a mortgage on the property for $30 million (I am just making up the numbers for illustrative purposes). I don't know how much BS actually advanced to JS (DOTR probably has this available, he/she is a wizard at finding stuff) , but the amount actually advanced was likely far less than the mortgages actually registered against these advances.
In fairness, we don't know where JS may have invested any profits from his business; and also we don't know how much he reinvested in his business. We do know he owned part of Green Storage; and also a cottage/marina business. He had/has plans to rapidly expand both of them, based on what we have read. Acquiring additional storage locations or buying cottages would require additional capital. But JS may well have other investments (Harlo?) that we are not aware of.
Irrespective of what JS may have written in an email to his father, or to anyone else, I am quite certain that JS didn't actually believe that he was a smarter or more astute business person than his father. All MOO
Kittybunny
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Spot on. Great analysis and insights.
Lol, thank you but must say that there are quite a few posters on thread who can grab the goods!
Did not get to read all this to see if it answers the question, but it might be somewhere else within this lengthy article.
ETA rbbm.
Barry Sherman’s son says his father asked him to repay tens of millions of dollars, two weeks before murders, but Barry was ‘all in’ with son’s business | Crime | toronto.com
''In a back and forth email exchange in December leading up to our interview, the 37-year-old businessman explained his desire to provide “context” to his father’s request — two weeks before his death — that Jonathon and business partner Adam Paulin pay back between $50 million and $60 million that Barry had loaned them. His father, Jonathon said, was in a difficult financial situation but vowed to restart the flow of cash down the road.''
''Barry Sherman had provided at least $125 million to Jonathon and Paulin over the years in the form of interest-free loans registered on title to their storage company, Green Storage, along with money for homes and a cottage. My own review of public land title documents suggested that more than $200 million was made available by Barry, but Jonathon said that he and Paulin only ever needed $125 million of that amount.''
Barry Sherman’s son raised concerns about Apotex founder’s investment strategy and business competence: Sources | The Star
''Following this interaction between Sherman son and father, there were no more advances of money to Jonathon’s Green Storage companies for some time, according to land title records. Two highly placed insiders within the Apotex-Sherman companies say that Barry asked Jonathon to put conventional bank mortgages on his properties in 2016 as a way to fund the expansion of the Green Storage business, but Jonathon refused to do so.
In December 2016, the Barry Sherman money tap was turned on again. Sherman insiders say that they had noticed that Jonathon and his father were getting along better at this time.
Land title records show a $5 million loan from Hour Holdings to purchase a storage company in Orillia and in April, 2017, a $50 million loan from Hour Holdings to purchase one on Eastern Ave. in Toronto. In both cases, land title documents do not record the cost of the purchase, noting a nominal “$2” value in each case.
Later that year, in September 2017, $1.5 million was advanced by Hour Holding related to the construction of the cottage owned by Jonathon and Adam Paulin, overlooking the small marina on Chandos Lake.
With the death of the Shermans in December, 2017, many of the family investments were put on hold. The Sherman wealth, according to instructions left by Barry Sherman in his 2013 will, splits the family fortune equally between his four children. That fortune is controlled by four trustees he named in a 2017 codicil to the will: Jonathon Sherman, Brad Krawczyk (husband of his daughter Alex), Alex Glasenberg (who runs the Sherman family holding company), and Jack Kay, Barry’s second in command at Apotex for more than 30 years. Kay was fired by Jonathon from Apotex in December, 2018 and since that time has not been at the estate trustee meetings.
In February of 2019, Green Storage paid $1.2 million for a storage facility in Scarborough. According to land title documents, a $25 million loan from Hour Holdings was registered on title.''
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