CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18

[branmuffin]

The autopsy reveals the medical cause of death.

Barry and Honey Sherman died of ligature neck compression: Police
“Ligature neck compression refers to strangulation that occurs as the result of a rope or some other sort of ligature being wrapped around the neck, CP24 Crime Specialist Steve Ryan said.”

Yes, I remember that. I just thought an item wrapped around a living person's neck and was still there 36 hours later would have given indications that it was the cause of death and not a false indicator. The Shermans could have been restrained by using the chokehold which restricts breathing or the carotid hold which restricts oxygen to the brain. Both methods could have been used to actually kill them or just to make them unconscious.

 

[Satchie]

Yes, I remember that. I just thought an item wrapped around a living person's neck and was still there 36 hours later would have given indications that it was the cause of death and not a false indicator. The Shermans could have been restrained by using the chokehold which restricts breathing or the carotid hold which restricts oxygen to the brain. Both methods could have been used to actually kill them or just to make them unconscious.

Fortunately I don't know much about asphyxiating people. I'm not sure I visualize exactly what you're referring to.

I thought it was discovered that the belts were not what was used to kill them, but some other kind of ligature, am I mis-remembering that?

It makes sense, how can you hold someone still while you get the buckle into that little hole, etc. A homicide ligature is something that can be quickly tightened by hand, taking the victim by surprise.

But I agree, in any case, very tricky maneouvers to buckle heavy bodies to that railing and then push them into position.

I suppose it could have been essential to creating the murder-suicide scenario, which was maybe how the perp thought they could get away with the crime. Or it could have been somehow psychologically gratifying, or a combination of the two.

I agree that if the motive was purely greed, then kill them on the spot and leave - or, if effort was going to be made to confuse police, wouldn't it have been to make the bodies disappear, rather than appear so bizarrely?

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes, I remember that. I just thought an item wrapped around a living person's neck and was still there 36 hours later would have given indications that it was the cause of death and not a false indicator. The Shermans could have been restrained by using the chokehold which restricts breathing or the carotid hold which restricts oxygen to the brain. Both methods could have been used to actually kill them or just to make them unconscious.

The autopsy procedure pertaining to strangulation seems very complex so I don’t think we could figure out how it could be determined what type of ligature, if any, was used. But what I did get out of it this article below is during the autopsy, more force used is clearly evident when a victim is murdered than if they died by suicide of their own free will,

WARNING - detailed medical info, don’t read this if you’re squeamish.
http://www.markwynn.com/wp-content/uploads/death-by-strangulation.pdf

 

[Window21]

Some interesting facts:
The rarity of "unusual" [corrected] dispositions of victim bodies: staging and posing - PubMed

"The act of leaving a victim's body in an unusual position is a conscious criminal action by an offender to thwart an investigation, shock the finder and investigators of the crime scene, or give perverted pleasure to the killer. The unusual position concepts of posing and staging a murder victim have been documented thoroughly and have been accepted by the courts as a definable phenomenon. One staging case and one posing case are outlined and reveal characteristics of those homicides. From the Washington State Attorney General's Homicide Investigation and Tracking System's database on murder covering the years 1981-2000 (a total of 5,224 cases), the relative frequency of unusual body dispositions is revealed as a very rare occurrence. Only 1.3% of victims are left in an unusual position, with 0.3% being posed and 0.1% being staged. The characteristics of these types of murders also set them apart: compared to all other murders, in staged murders the victims and killers are, on average, older. All victims and offenders in the staged murders are white, with victims being disproportionately white in murders with any kind of unusual body disposition. Likewise, females stand out as victims when the body is posed, staged, or left in other unusual positions. Whereas posed bodies are more likely to include sexual assault, often in serial murders, there is no evidence of either in the staged cases. Lastly, when a body is left in an unusual position, binding is more likely, as well as the use of more "hands on" means of killing the victim, such as stabbing or cutting weapons, bludgeons, ligatures, or hands and feet."

 

[juli99]

It makes sense, how can you hold someone still while you get the buckle into that little hole, etc. A homicide ligature is something that can be quickly tightened by hand, taking the victim by surprise.

JMO

Do we think they put the buckle in that little hole? I'm thinking it would have been more likely that the belt was looped through the buckle but not put through a hole. A neck is a lot smaller than a waist, so putting through the hole would mean a very slack loop. Instead, I can imagine simply tightening down the buckle as far as it would go, then letting the weight of the body hold that loop tight. But then how does one tie the end of the belt to the rail while lifting the weight of the body? More than likely instead, the loop was created, the belt tied to the railing, then the head was inserted into the loop, and the weight of the body creating the final tension.

Can't believe I'm having to think about this....

 

[FromGermany1]

I definitely think the whole scenario was a message of some kind; a personal one. If it was a professional hit, you know, get in, neutralize subjects and leave type of scenario, the Shermans would have been found anywhere else in the house, dropping where they died. But this just reeks of some personal vendetta and one that satisfied some deep seated hatred toward them for some hurt, real or imagined.

bbm
"But this just reeks of some personal vendetta and one that satisfied some deep seated hatred toward them for some hurt, real or imagined." ...... just similar as having their heads roll along the floor, real or imagined. Maybe.

 

[newclues]

Some interesting facts:
The rarity of "unusual" [corrected] dispositions of victim bodies: staging and posing - PubMed

"The act of leaving a victim's body in an unusual position is a conscious criminal action by an offender to thwart an investigation, shock the finder and investigators of the crime scene, or give perverted pleasure to the killer. The unusual position concepts of posing and staging a murder victim have been documented thoroughly and have been accepted by the courts as a definable phenomenon. One staging case and one posing case are outlined and reveal characteristics of those homicides. From the Washington State Attorney General's Homicide Investigation and Tracking System's database on murder covering the years 1981-2000 (a total of 5,224 cases), the relative frequency of unusual body dispositions is revealed as a very rare occurrence. Only 1.3% of victims are left in an unusual position, with 0.3% being posed and 0.1% being staged. The characteristics of these types of murders also set them apart: compared to all other murders, in staged murders the victims and killers are, on average, older. All victims and offenders in the staged murders are white, with victims being disproportionately white in murders with any kind of unusual body disposition. Likewise, females stand out as victims when the body is posed, staged, or left in other unusual positions. Whereas posed bodies are more likely to include sexual assault, often in serial murders, there is no evidence of either in the staged cases. Lastly, when a body is left in an unusual position, binding is more likely, as well as the use of more "hands on" means of killing the victim, such as stabbing or cutting weapons, bludgeons, ligatures, or hands and feet."

Since the killer went out of their way to do this, they were probably trying to leave some kind of message.

bbm
"But this just reeks of some personal vendetta and one that satisfied some deep seated hatred toward them for some hurt, real or imagined." ...... just similar as having their heads roll along the floor, real or imagined. Maybe.

Looks like the killer went out of their way to try to make it look like a M/S by maybe trying to relay the message that BS destroyed many people's lives including that of his wife HS. A M/S would also cause emotional harm on so many more different levels to family and friends and would cast BS in a bad light. This shows that BS was more of the direct target since the killer was trying to make BS out to be the killer of HS.

 

[juli99]

bbm
"But this just reeks of some personal vendetta and one that satisfied some deep seated hatred toward them for some hurt, real or imagined." ...... just similar as having their heads roll along the floor, real or imagined. Maybe.

The emotion behind it is very similar to that. IMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

The emotion behind it is very similar to that. IMO.

While I’m no expert on the topic hired hitman, the cause of death even seems to lean toward a more personal murder by an outraged killer fueled by vitriol IMO. As opposed to a quick shooting, prior to strangulation, the victims would have to be physically attacked and restrained which would likely cause a struggle to occur. The Shermans were in good physical shape for their age and definitely not invalids so when fighting for one’s life, we know adrenalin kicks in. So a hired hitman would have to prepared to get “his hands dirty” and risk injuries, such as bruises and bite marks in the very least. That just seems out of character for an unemotional hired hit. JMO

 

[dotr]

Trying to find the link that stated HS was very close to death when the belt was attached. imo.
May 2018
How the investigation into the deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman turned from murder-suicide to double homicide | The Star
''Photos of the scene did not reveal any ropes or ties that could be responsible for the abrasions.

The photos displayed by Dr. Pickup also showed the positioning of the bodies near the pool. As has been previously reported, leather belts were looped around their necks and used to hold them in a sitting position, backs to the pool.

In Chiasson’s examination, it was determined that they were likely not strangled with the belts. Instead, they were strangled with some other type of ligature, and the belts were then put around their necks.

Sources have told the Star that while one belt appears to be Barry Sherman’s (he was not wearing a belt when found) it is not known where the other belt came from.''

 

[ldlager]

Had it been deemed a murder/suicide I don’t think the estate business would’ve changed, but just to say I think it’s highly unusual for beneficiaries directly benefitting from a billion dollar plus estate to strongly urge a murder investigation be undertaken. Why not let it be, file closed, let the Sherman name and their various philanthropic activities be forever tarnished. JMO

They wanted a murder investigation undertaken because some/all of the children/beneficiaries that did not believe it was a M/S. They want their parents killers to be brought to justice- what "normal" person wouldn't? The Sherman kids would be worried every day for the rest of their lives that they were in danger, not knowing if the killers were targeting the whole family. They want the killer(s) found so they can live like the rest of us- waking up every day not fearing for their lives.

 

[ldlager]

Horses only think they've been secured. And that happens with training. A human would understand that there could be a possibility they could loosen the belt if they struggled.

Not if they are already dead!!!

 

[Lexiintoronto]

An estate being held in trust and a recipient being paid an income just means that the trustees administer the estate. As Honey was never named a trustee, she would have no control in the way it was managed. The trustees would be authorized to make the financial decisions until her death.

“In that case, he asked that trustees hold his entire estate in trust and pay “the net annual income derived therefrom” to Honey Sherman “in quarterly instalments.

He also gives his trustees “absolute and unfettered discretion” to provide Honey Sherman with additional payments from his estate to provide for her “comfortable maintenance and benefit” as they deem fit.”
Slain billionaire Barry Sherman divided estate equally among four children

She would have received a fortune every three months, imo. The trustees would have had the power to give her more money than the quarterly instalments, and 3 out of 4 trustees were her allies. JS was her opposition, according to KD, but she essentially controlled the money. If *he* wanted money, he’d have to ask her, then the majority of the trustees would have to approve it. Based on what we see now, I don’t think they’d support him or Adam.

Just from KD’s reporting, JS was in a world of financial debt and I don’t think Honey would have enabled more debt. I think she’d make him accountable and would have called in his loans he promised to repay.

His failure with Steelback was headline news in the business sector. Imagine the news if Green Storage and his Harlo companies had to be sold off or collapsed due to his debt.

 

[WINDSOR]

In todays Toronto Star there is a story about the unsolved murder or Paolo Caputo in 2019. This part caught my attention.

“There are hit men available inside Canada to conduct businesses for the criminal groups in Mexico,” Najera said. “Furthermore, when those local hit men are hired, their ‘reputation’ increases as they add to their ‘resume’ being under contract for a Mexican group.”

I always assumed that the hit team in the Sherman case was from overseas, as I was not aware in Canada there were for-hire assassins.
If the Shermans were killed by a locals, I wonder if there is any 'word on the streets' about it?

I wonder if Fd'A who likes to act in his mob movies knows anything? He might have heard something. BTW I do not believe Fd'A had anything to do with the deaths, because with the Sherman's deaths he lost all his funding.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Trying to find the link that stated HS was very close to death when the belt was attached. imo.
May 2018
How the investigation into the deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman turned from murder-suicide to double homicide | The Star
''Photos of the scene did not reveal any ropes or ties that could be responsible for the abrasions.

The photos displayed by Dr. Pickup also showed the positioning of the bodies near the pool. As has been previously reported, leather belts were looped around their necks and used to hold them in a sitting position, backs to the pool.

In Chiasson’s examination, it was determined that they were likely not strangled with the belts. Instead, they were strangled with some other type of ligature, and the belts were then put around their necks.

Sources have told the Star that while one belt appears to be Barry Sherman’s (he was not wearing a belt when found) it is not known where the other belt came from.''

I’m not sure if you’re thinking of this quote (pg 42 of KD’s ebook):

 

[ldlager]

In todays Toronto Star there is a story about the unsolved murder or Paolo Caputo in 2019. This part caught my attention.

“There are hit men available inside Canada to conduct businesses for the criminal groups in Mexico,” Najera said. “Furthermore, when those local hit men are hired, their ‘reputation’ increases as they add to their ‘resume’ being under contract for a Mexican group.”

I always assumed that the hit team in the Sherman case was from overseas, as I was not aware in Canada there were for-hire assassins.
If the Shermans were killed by a locals, I wonder if there is any 'word on the streets' about it?

I wonder if Fd'A who likes to act in his mob movies knows anything? He might have heard something. BTW I do not believe Fd'A had anything to do with the deaths, because with the Sherman's deaths he lost all his funding.

Or perhaps all his debt was forgiven. We don't know unfortunately what his terms were with BS

 

[dotr]

I’m not sure if you’re thinking of this quote (pg 42 of KD’s ebook):
View attachment 333479

Yes, awesome thank you that was exactly the bit i was looking for!

 

[dotr]

In todays Toronto Star there is a story about the unsolved murder or Paolo Caputo in 2019. This part caught my attention.

“There are hit men available inside Canada to conduct businesses for the criminal groups in Mexico,” Najera said. “Furthermore, when those local hit men are hired, their ‘reputation’ increases as they add to their ‘resume’ being under contract for a Mexican group.”

I always assumed that the hit team in the Sherman case was from overseas, as I was not aware in Canada there were for-hire assassins.
If the Shermans were killed by a locals, I wonder if there is any 'word on the streets' about it?

I wonder if Fd'A who likes to act in his mob movies knows anything? He might have heard something. BTW I do not believe Fd'A had anything to do with the deaths, because with the Sherman's deaths he lost all his funding.

Thinking of how some organizations deal with people who owe them several million, never mind someone who owes a $billion and declares that he has no intention of paying it! imo.
On the other hand, what if (just as in the case linked here,) someone associated with the Shermans, owes big bucks to some bigger ducks and they target the Shermans instead? imo, speculation.rbbm. fwiw.
Was a Roncesvalles restaurateur killed over someone else’s $5 million cocaine debt to the Sinaloa cartel?
By Peter Edwards Feb. 13, 2022
''Paolo Caputo was eager to sell his wine bar in Toronto’s west end on Roncesvalles Avenue, near Grenadier Road.
Caputo wanted $249,000 for it, which seemed a reasonable price for the Domani, 3,486 square feet and fully air-conditioned.''

''It had been a few years since Montreal Mafia boss Vito Rizzuto was a regular at Paolo Caputo’s now-closed Forest Hill restaurant.''

''The Wolfpack is multi-ethnic, with links to a variety of organized crime groups from across the country''

''They display computer skills, a profound sense of entitlement, and impatience over things like unpaid debts and unresolved grievances.''

''Raposo was shot dead in broad daylight by a Wolfpack hit man disguised as a construction worker while watching Euro Cup soccer on TV on a crowded College Street patio in June 2012.''
''According to police and underworld sources, the cartel had grown frustrated with repeated attempts to collect on the $5 million debt.
In gentler times, not so long ago, they might have kidnapped someone to speed up the payment.
Now murder was more the norm.''
''Cartels now have access to killers inside Canada, Najera said.''

 

[Kittybunny]

I don't think I've ever followed a case where there are so many people who could have potential motives. From the litigious nature of the Shermans, to the convoluted family issues, from JS to KW, to slighted architects and designers, to former employees of Apotex, business rivals, and international corporations, there is no shortage of suspects. Anyone else envisioning a Murder on the Orient Express type scenario? Half joking of course but you never know if you mutually interested parties could have come together to make this happen.

 

[MistyWaters]

“In that case, he asked that trustees hold his entire estate in trust and pay “the net annual income derived therefrom” to Honey Sherman “in quarterly instalments.

He also gives his trustees “absolute and unfettered discretion” to provide Honey Sherman with additional payments from his estate to provide for her “comfortable maintenance and benefit” as they deem fit.”
Slain billionaire Barry Sherman divided estate equally among four children

She would have received a fortune every three months, imo. The trustees would have had the power to give her more money than the quarterly instalments, and 3 out of 4 trustees were her allies. JS was her opposition, according to KD, but she essentially controlled the money. If *he* wanted money, he’d have to ask her, then the majority of the trustees would have to approve it. Based on what we see now, I don’t think they’d support him or Adam.

Just from KD’s reporting, JS was in a world of financial debt and I don’t think Honey would have enabled more debt. I think she’d make him accountable and would have called in his loans he promised to repay.

His failure with Steelback was headline news in the business sector. Imagine the news if Green Storage and his Harlo companies had to be sold off or collapsed due to his debt.

Millions of dollars of debt might sound like a lot but if financed, it’s asset to debt ratio and income along with other things that’s considered in relation to the borrowed capital. Virtually all businesses leverage debt so it doesn’t automatically indicate Green Storage and Harlow companies were in financial distress. That’s something TPS would’ve surely looked into IMO.