CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18

[ldlager]

I sometimes think the perp left it there as a red herring. Same thing about the papers and gloves on the floor. like bread crumbs leading to the pool room.

If it was like Mr. Arnfield and FD said it was a personal murder. (dotr post #972 in the video)

If the killing was personal IMO the staging was about that person and their situation with the pair of them. I agree with FD, to kill both in their home was personal. I also agree with Mr. A. that this was not a professional hit.

If you plan to hide the bodies in the last place anyone would look, why would a professional leave her cell phone in the front bathroom? why leave the other items on the floor by the down stair entrance? why leave the alarm off? As far as we are aware no staff saw any appearance of struggle or violence while they tidied and cleaned. IF and I mean a BIG IF TRUE (little voice in my head thinks maybe this is another exaggeration of facts once reported in the media) if the cheap Canadian tire belts were used, was one taken from BS pants and used, the 2nd was 2 floors up on a bench in a master bedroom closet as per the housekeeper, this perp had no issues wandering around the home.

Just on the alarm it is possible that it was left off because the killer didnt know how to arm it. Many of them require that you enter your secret code to arm the system I think.

 

[ldlager]

Another thing I find weird, perhaps someone can enlighten me. The cleaning lady and physical therapist person got to the home approx the same time on that Friday morning the bodies were discovered? The cleaning lady used her key, but said the alarm was off. Didn't both the cleaning lady and the therapist know/expect that both Shermans were at home? They were apparently scheduled for their usual exercise/whatever therapy, so why would they not be home, or be expected to be home? H's vehicle was parked in its normal spot, so even more evidence that they'd be, or at least she would be, at home. So why, if they were home, or expected to be home, would the cleaning lady have expected to turn OFF the alarm... why would the alarm be ON while the occupants are presumably moving around inside the home? IIRC, the cleaning lady said something to the effect of - it struck her as odd because the alarm wasn't on and she therefore didn't need to turn it off... which leads one to believe that normally, the occupants would be indeed home for their appointments with whichever therapist, but yet the alarm would be on. And then at the same time, we've been told from the start that the Sherman's didn't believe in security, nor locking doors etc. So what's with the alarm being set while they are at home?

At 8:25 a.m., housekeeper Nelia Macatangay arrived to tidy the house and help make potato latkes. Honey and Barry were planning to take them and some gifts to daughter Alex’s house that evening for a Hannukah dinner arranged earlier in the week.

Megan Young arrived at the same time. Young was one of several personal trainers the Shermans employed. At 70, Honey had numerous joint replacements over the years, but loved to push herself with exercise. Barry, 75, tolerated it because Honey wanted him to work out.

The newspaper was sitting on the front doorstep. That was odd, the trainer and housekeeper recalled thinking. By that time on all previous Fridays, Barry had opened the front door, taken in the paper and was reading it in the kitchen, waiting for Young. It was always the same on Fridays. Young would train Barry with some light exercises for an hour in a small upstairs gym area off their bedroom; Honey would do a more vigorous workout for the next two hours while Barry went to work.

Macatangay collected the paper, and the mail, and she and the trainer walked to the side door. It was locked. Macatangay used her key and was surprised to find the alarm system was off. As she later told police, it was always armed when she arrived. Honey’s aging gold Lexus SUV was in its regular spot by the side door.

‘Someone has killed my clients’: Newly released documents detail the day Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead, and what police did after

Two things.
#1 We are told that the alarm was usually armed when they arrived for their appointment with the Sherman’s. So presumably it was just outside perimeter or door alarms and not inside motion detectors
#2 If the Sherman’s were murdered on Wed night, why was there only one paper on the doorstep? There should have been 2 papers- one from Thursday morning and one from Friday morning.

 

[ldlager]

This is the first time I have seen a picture from this angle of the home, wow how private it was from the neighbors

Police Investigating 'Suspicious' Deaths Of Billionaire Toronto Couple

Barry Sherman was 75; Honey Sherman was 70. Their bodies were found shortly before noon on Friday, after a 911 call brought police to their house.

www.npr.org

Yes but remember that in December the vegetation wouldn’t be there and the trees would be bare, making the house more visible from the street than in this photo

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

One might imagine the cleaning lady would've been familiar with Honey's 'jewelled case'?

Justice Leslie Pringle of the Ontario Court of Justice (designated to do all of the Sherman case warrants) allowed the execution of the warrant for Honey’s phone, a white iPhone with a recognizable jewelled case her friends identified to police. It was found in a powder room on the main floor of the Sherman home, fuelling speculation she had run there to escape an attacker.

Lawyers for Ontario, Apotex struck deal on what detectives could access in Sherman murder investigation. It took one month

Documents unsealed by a judge last week reveal details of legal wrangling that took place over what detectives could access in their investigation of the murders of Honey and Barry Sherman.

www.thestar.com

note this states a powder room, we now know that more than 1 powder room was on the first floor, maybe this was not the powder room at the front door but the one in the laundry room area

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Two things.
#1 We are told that the alarm was usually armed when they arrived for their appointment with the Sherman’s. So presumably it was just outside perimeter or door alarms and not inside motion detectors
#2 If the Sherman’s were murdered on Wed night, why was there only one paper on the doorstep? There should have been 2 papers- one from Thursday morning and one from Friday morning.

possibly with his subscription he only had Friday's paper delivered to the house?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Yes but remember that in December the vegetation wouldn’t be there and the trees would be bare, making the house more visible from the street than in this photo

Very true. From that angle, the brick half-wall is hidden by trees in warm weather, which would be viewable in December and block views somewhat, but with darkness and shadows from tall trees, it creates "privacy" obstruction of street views as well. Most of the pics are not taken from the street but on the edge of the property around that half wall.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

note this states a powder room, we now know that more than 1 powder room was on the first floor, maybe this was not the powder room at the front door but the one in the laundry room area

KD reported it was the front powder room by the main doors.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

dbm

 

[ldlager]

possibly with his subscription he only had Friday's paper delivered to the house?

I dont think Barry needed to skimp on the prescription- LOL

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

KD reported it was the front powder room by the main doors.
View attachment 350999

Thank you, yes, you are correct this is specified here.

But I am not sure if he assumed or was told specifically, the initial report states powder room only, then we get stories of how she never used that bathroom at the front of the home, maybe it was not that bathroom and the phone was really in the powder room the residents used so not so odd after all and thus why the housekeeper was not concerned?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I dont think Barry needed to skimp on the prescription- LOL

LOL subscription, hehehehe, no but that was his nature to not spend if not necessary, and if he did not have time to read it at home every morning then he may have a copy delivered to work and read it when he arrived there.

 

[FromGermany1]

Two things.
#1 We are told that the alarm was usually armed when they arrived for their appointment with the Sherman’s. So presumably it was just outside perimeter or door alarms and not inside motion detectors
#2 If the Sherman’s were murdered on Wed night, why was there only one paper on the doorstep? There should have been 2 papers- one from Thursday morning and one from Friday morning.

I can't believe, the killer took his victims to the furthest point in the home (pool) to hide them and was so stupid, not to care for the delivered paper/s on the outside. The papers on the doorstep would have meant: owners are absent or prevented from bringing in the newspapers (if it was unusual for the papers to lay there).
Though I wonder, if the newspapers were positioned on the doorsteps at all instead of put in a newspapers box.

 

[deugirtni]

Thank you, yes, you are correct this is specified here.

But I am not sure if he assumed or was told specifically, the initial report states powder room only, then we get stories of how she never used that bathroom at the front of the home, maybe it was not that bathroom and the phone was really in the powder room the residents used so not so odd after all and thus why the housekeeper was not concerned?

Looking at the floorplan of the main floor, the only facilities were the two powder rooms.. the one at the front door seems a bit out of the way for the resident who might be working around in the kitchen or laundry area, or sitting in the family room, etc. Plus I'm thinking likely the powder room by the front door may have been 99% unused to keep it clean at all times for any visitors?

 

[deugirtni]

From this article it seems the 'furnace man' arrived prior to the bodies being discovered. I hope LE has vetted this guy fully. I'm assuming the cleaning lady sent him down to the basement's furnace room, which is accessible from the 'utility room' which has a door directly to the underground garage. Which way did the furnace guy access the basement (interior staircase? exterior back door? through the underground garage?) Did he go back and forth to his truck to get parts at all, or just in once and out once? Was he the person who left the back basement door unlocked, or was it unlocked prior to his arrival? Where was he when the bodies were discovered? Had he already left by that time? Did he notice the papers and gloves scattered on the floor leading from the garage? How long had he worked with that particular furnace company? Did LE check to see if he may have made any calls/communications from his cellphone while he was there? Is LE positive it was just a 'routine maintenance' visit? Was that scheduled into Honey's calendar? Did the cleaning lady know to expect him?

By this time the cleaning lady and the personal trainer had already arrive, but it doesn't say how much later the furnace guy arrived:

A furnace cleaner was the next person to arrive at the home, followed by a realtor representing a buyer interested in purchasing the Shermans’ 12,000-square-foot estate, which had been on the market for a couple of weeks.
....
One of the Shermans’ realtors arrived minutes later at around 10:50 a.m. and began to show the house as the housekeeper continued cleaning, police said.

It's been 3 years since Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead. Court documents reveal what we know so far

 

[Betty P]

From this article it seems the 'furnace man' arrived prior to the bodies being discovered. I hope LE has vetted this guy fully. I'm assuming the cleaning lady sent him down to the basement's furnace room, which is accessible from the 'utility room' which has a door directly to the underground garage. Which way did the furnace guy access the basement (interior staircase? exterior back door? through the underground garage?) Did he go back and forth to his truck to get parts at all, or just in once and out once? Was he the person who left the back basement door unlocked, or was it unlocked prior to his arrival? Where was he when the bodies were discovered? Had he already left by that time? Did he notice the papers and gloves scattered on the floor leading from the garage? How long had he worked with that particular furnace company? Did LE check to see if he may have made any calls/communications from his cellphone while he was there? Is LE positive it was just a 'routine maintenance' visit? Was that scheduled into Honey's calendar? Did the cleaning lady know to expect him?

By this time the cleaning lady and the personal trainer had already arrive, but it doesn't say how much later the furnace guy arrived:

A furnace cleaner was the next person to arrive at the home, followed by a realtor representing a buyer interested in purchasing the Shermans’ 12,000-square-foot estate, which had been on the market for a couple of weeks.
....
One of the Shermans’ realtors arrived minutes later at around 10:50 a.m. and began to show the house as the housekeeper continued cleaning, police said.

It's been 3 years since Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead. Court documents reveal what we know so far

Looking at your attached diagram of the basement, the pool room is really off by itself, down at the end of the hall behind a door. It doesn't appear to matter which entrance the furnace man used, he wouldn't have walked through the pool room to access the utility room. The utility room was along the same hallway leading to the pool room, but not in the same room.

The ME fixed the time of death at a couple of days before the bodies were discovered. If the furnace man had been the killer on the day the bodies were discovered, the ME would have noticed that.

 

[deugirtni]

Looking at your attached diagram of the basement, the pool room is really off by itself, down at the end of the hall behind a door. It doesn't appear to matter which entrance the furnace man used, he wouldn't have walked through the pool room to access the utility room. The utility room was along the same hallway leading to the pool room, but not in the same room.

The ME fixed the time of death at a couple of days before the bodies were discovered. If the furnace man had been the killer on the day the bodies were discovered, the ME would have noticed that.

Yes, I was speculating more along the lines of the possibility of there potentially being a person hired to perhaps fetch something left behind, clean something, do something that had been forgotten to be done, possibly even to provide cover in collecting a person who needed to exit the home (perhaps by way of the back basement door and into a white van), etc. It sounds like the workman had free and unfettered access to the entire basement for about an hour. I'm sure things are what they seem like, but If he was simply joe-furnace-man showing up for an appointment scheduled long ago to do regular maintenace, it must be so eerie for him to think he was working just down the hallway from the two murdered owners, before anyone even knew about it. imo.

Macatangay collected the paper, and the mail, and she and the trainer walked to the side door. It was locked. Macatangay used her key and was surprised to find the alarm system was off. As she later told police, it was always armed when she arrived. Honey’s aging gold Lexus SUV was in its regular spot by the side door.

Around the same time, a white van from a furnace company showed up. It was a regular service call by XXXXX XXXXX. The 12,000-square-foot house had four furnaces. xxxxx followed the housekeeper and trainer inside. He took his tools and went down to the furnace room in the cavernous basement.
....
The trainer left. The furnace repair man came upstairs after an hour and also left. As is often the case in search warrant documents made public, some of his statements are redacted with large black lines. As the man walked to his van he spotted frozen footprints on the partially heated ramp to the underground garage. They looked old, he thought.

‘Someone has killed my clients’: Newly released documents detail the day Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead, and what police did after

 

[deugirtni]

Talking about the basement layout (attached in pdf just up a bit)... I recall FDA saying something like B was too lazy to park in the garage. When looking at the floorplan, if B had exited from the garage at the double doors by the spiral staircase, he would've needed to walk up that winding staircase, which I can imagine he might rather not do, when he could simply park right outside his front door. If B was accosted right there in that smallish circular hallway area, is that where the papers and gloves were found? Did the killer kill him right there at the staircase, or somehow get him through the hallway doors toward the pool room? Did they wait til they got him to the pool room?


The couple's house on Old Colony Road had underground parking at the rear but, according to D'Angelo, 'Barry never used it. He was lazy. He'd just park right in front of the front door.'

But on December 13, whether beckoned or forced, he drove down to the back of the house and parked out of sight. From there, just one doorway stood between him, the pool area and his death.

Billionaire couple found 'murdered' discussed pledging their fortune

ETA: So I wonder if it was normal at that period in time for B to park in his underground garage - the neighbour's video recordings would've provided proof of where he parked in early and mid December 2017 when it was cold outside. If not normal, then why did B choose to park underground on that particular night? Could someone have somehow become a passenger in B's vehicle on his way home, forced him to keep driving (or perhaps didn't have to force anything because the passenger was known to B?), park in the underground, kill the occupants, then leave a day and a half later, unnoticed, when there was lots of people and activity around the house? Wasn't there speculation about police wondering how the killer would've gone and out without notice?

 

[FromGermany1]

LOL subscription, hehehehe, no but that was his nature to not spend if not necessary, and if he did not have time to read it at home every morning then he may have a copy delivered to work and read it when he arrived there.

She said they would often find Barry in the kitchen reading the newspaper when they arrived in the morning but this time, the door was locked and for the first time in three years, she noticed that the alarm was off.

The housekeeper also noted that the newspaper was outside and she brought it in along with the mail.

It's been 3 years since Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead. Court documents reveal what we know so far

Today marks the third anniversary of the unsolved murders of Toronto billionaires Honey and Barry Sherman, who were found dead in the basement of their North York mansion in December 2017.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

-.-.-.-
She took me to wait near the kitchen, where Barry Sherman stood in a blue terry cloth robe at the counter in his bare feet, reading the paper and eating breakfast.

How Barry Sherman built his multibillion-dollar fortune

From July 2008, our feature on the life of Canada’s generic drug king

torontolife.com

 

[Lexiintoronto]

She said they would often find Barry in the kitchen reading the newspaper when they arrived in the morning but this time, the door was locked and for the first time in three years, she noticed that the alarm was off.

The housekeeper also noted that the newspaper was outside and she brought it in along with the mail.

It's been 3 years since Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead. Court documents reveal what we know so far

Today marks the third anniversary of the unsolved murders of Toronto billionaires Honey and Barry Sherman, who were found dead in the basement of their North York mansion in December 2017.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

-.-.-.-
She took me to wait near the kitchen, where Barry Sherman stood in a blue terry cloth robe at the counter in his bare feet, reading the paper and eating breakfast.

How Barry Sherman built his multibillion-dollar fortune

From July 2008, our feature on the life of Canada’s generic drug king

torontolife.com

One personal trainer confirmed the same thing. He’d pick up the paper (Toronto Star) from the doorstep and would read it until 9:00, cutting a 1/2 hour off their session.

I think he’d get the Globe & Mail and the Financial Post at work, imo.

 

[casesensitive]

Two things.
#1 We are told that the alarm was usually armed when they arrived for their appointment with the Sherman’s. So presumably it was just outside perimeter or door alarms and not inside motion detectors
#2 If the Sherman’s were murdered on Wed night, why was there only one paper on the doorstep? There should have been 2 papers- one from Thursday morning and one from Friday morning.