CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18

[Kerry Winter]

Thanks, I get it now. It is staged to look like BS did not mean to kill HS, it just happened. Then to deal with it, he killed himself.

I'm not sure if I can ask this, but does KW think the M/S was planned beforehand or happened in a fit of rage?

I was reading this article that has lots of his statements.

Winter's own immediate reaction on learning of their deaths, he said was: '*advertiser censored**ing hell he finally did it. Barry finally killed the b****.'

Canadian tycoon Barry Sherman 'killed wife then himself' | Daily Mail Online

Barry had a severe temper that could ignite quickly. He was also losing his marbles due to some form of dementia. I sat across from him for several hours a few months before his death: he was clearly losing it.
I believe Honey provoked him one last time and he flipped out.
It wasn’t planned….although Barry tried to stage the scene around the pool as a “suicide pact”….the TPS knew she was killed in the kitchen and she was already dead before the belt was wrapped around her neck.
No forced entry.
No murder suspects.
M/S!
They’re will NEVER be an arrest of the “multiple murderers”.
Nobody will ever collect the 10 million.
Job well done Greenspan! Lol

 

[Window21]

That fills in some gaps for me. Thanks KW. I had no idea she was killed in the kitchen. So she was dragged down to the pool area.
I also had no idea dementia was setting in with BS. That is very possible due to his age. Very interesting.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

That fills in some gaps for me. Thanks KW. I had no idea she was killed in the kitchen. So she was dragged down to the pool area.
I also had no idea dementia was setting in with BS. That is very possible due to his age. Very interesting.

None of what he wrote is in any of the police documents or any media source. No dementia. No mention of Honey being killed in the kitchen.

JS made a comment about BS’s competency in 2015 because JS was upset with BS funding FDA’s films.

This is part of BS’s deposition in his court case with KW. He is competently answering the questions:


At the 17:25 mark:

It was KW’s mental health that was formally questioned shortly after the murders:
MANDEL: Barry Sherman's cousin Kerry Winter suffered nervous breakdown, sister-in-law tells court | Toronto Sun

 

[MistyWaters]

Barry had a severe temper that could ignite quickly. He was also losing his marbles due to some form of dementia. I sat across from him for several hours a few months before his death: he was clearly losing it.
I believe Honey provoked him one last time and he flipped out.
It wasn’t planned….although Barry tried to stage the scene around the pool as a “suicide pact”….the TPS knew she was killed in the kitchen and she was already dead before the belt was wrapped around her neck.
No forced entry.
No murder suspects.
M/S!
They’re will NEVER be an arrest of the “multiple murderers”.
Nobody will ever collect the 10 million.
Job well done Greenspan! Lol

How do you know where Honey was killed? You say you had nothing to do with the murders yet you claim to know all the details. Why is that?

 

[MistyWaters]

None of what he wrote is in any of the police documents or any media source. No dementia. No mention of Honey being killed in the kitchen.

JS made a comment about BS’s competency in 2015 because JS was upset BS with funding FDA’s films.

This is part of BS’s deposition in his court case with KW. He is competently answering the questions:
View attachment 336095 View attachment 336096

At the 17:25 mark:

It was KW’s mental health that was formally questioned shortly after the murders:
MANDEL: Barry Sherman's cousin Kerry Winter suffered nervous breakdown, sister-in-law tells court | Toronto Sun

Yes indeed, it was KW’s mental health that came under scrutiny.

“Kerry Winter’s “perplexing media campaign” has also cast him as a murder suspect, worries his sister-in-law in the filed affidavit……

…..Winter then launched into a series of shocking allegations in the wake of the slayings, including that Sherman twice asked him in the 1990s to “whack” his wife. He later failed a lie detector test about his outlandish accusation.

He also told the CBC’s Fifth Estate that he once fantasized about decapitating his cousin. “I wanted to roll his head down the parking lot.”

“I did not approve of Kerry’s recent statements to the press. I attribute it to his illness,” his Vancouver sister-in-law wrote in her affidavit…..”
MANDEL: Barry Sherman's cousin Kerry Winter suffered nervous breakdown, sister-in-law tells court | Toronto Sun

 

[Window21]

He knows more than we know, and it is very possible she was killed in the kitchen. He would have heard that through the family "grapevine" so to speak....JMO...of course I am just assuming here.
We have no proof otherwise on where she was exactly when she was killed.

 

[FromGermany1]

Dotr, I am looking for the link you provided last week I think it was. It was an early article and it had a statement from the furnace repairman, the one who went to the basement and did his work and left.

He mentioned that he saw frozen footprints in the snow on the driveway ramp - no direction of prints if they were in and out, just that he thought the prints were odd. maybe the pictures LE reference show someone following BS's car down the ramp and they do not want to give away the direction that person came in from, otherwise makes little sense to me?

What I found with this wording is only regarding vehicles.

Direction of travel Definition | Law Insider
https://www.lawinsider.com › dictionary › direction-of-...

Direction of travel means the direction a vehicle travels on a public road. Two-lane roads allowing travel in opposite directions have 2 directions of travel.

if you Streetview around Old Colony rd you see that not many homes have cameras that would actually see the street, they have so many mature trees and shrubs, you would need to be on their property to be seen in full view. The only view I see that would give glimpse of any walking figures at the Sherman property would have been across the street at 51. The camera at 47 can see the slim side of the driveway closest to Bayview Ave. Camera at 51 would see the street in front of whole home, but the side of the property furthest from Bayview could be out of scope, the neighbor trees between properties could block the sightline.

If a home stands along a dead end street (at the end) and a home owner returns from his work or from her shopping mall back at home, how is it possible to question the direction (or don't release the direction)?? There is only one direction; the owners couldn't have returned from another direction, because the street ends. - I can't follow this detail.

 

[FromGermany1]

He knows more than we know, and it is very possible she was killed in the kitchen. He would have heard that through the family "grapevine" so to speak....JMO...of course I am just assuming here.
We have no proof otherwise on where she was exactly when she was killed.

Early on we heard, the murder didn't happen in the pool area, but 1 or 2 stairs further up. So, maybe it was in the kitchen and not in the bedroom, which was also talked about, afaik. I remember, that we discussed, whether HS got injured by dragging her down the stairs to the pool area. IMO

 

[newclues]

If it was a m/s then what happened to the zip ties that were used for strangulation?

 

[FromGermany1]

Some questions for Kerry:

IF it was indeed M/S as you believe:
Do you think, BS had some help (1 person) for the scene to be staged after his own death?
The Night Walker maybe?
A person, who stripped BS' jacket from his shoulders or made the zip-ties disappear or adjusted BS' glasses or tied BS' belt to the railing or placed BS' ankles on top of each other?

It seems so very impossible, if BS did all this himself.

 

[MistyWaters]

He knows more than we know, and it is very possible she was killed in the kitchen. He would have heard that through the family "grapevine" so to speak....JMO...of course I am just assuming here.
We have no proof otherwise on where she was exactly when she was killed.

Then do you also believe it was all an elaborate coverup of a m/s according to KW, as opposed to a double homicide?

 

[MistyWaters]

If it was a m/s then what happened to the zip ties that were used for strangulation?

My answer would be plain and simple - it wasn’t m/s, no if’s.

“One document provides for the first time confirmation that Barry’s wrists had been tied. Pathologists examining his body (both in the official autopsy and one performed by a pathologist hired by the Sherman family) determined that “Bernard was restrained at the wrist.”….”
Barry and Honey Sherman may have been under ‘surveillance’ a month before their murders, homicide detectives believe - News WWC

 

[Window21]

Then do you also believe it was all an elaborate coverup of a m/s according to KW, as opposed to a double homicide?

If you read one or two pages back you would know my stance on this. So I will repeat it again.
I have never thought it was m/s and right from the start even the people that found the Shermans thought it was murder and even stated it was murder.
How the police thought it was m/s is beyond me!

Just because I thanked KW for his comment and stated he knows more than most of us doesn't mean I agree with the m/s theory.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN REMINDER:

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Members may not challenge our VIs or argue with them about what they claim. They just have to tuck it away and scroll and roll without bickering or being antagonistic or inflammatory in any way.

 

[juli99]

Barry had a severe temper that could ignite quickly. He was also losing his marbles due to some form of dementia. I sat across from him for several hours a few months before his death: he was clearly losing it.
I believe Honey provoked him one last time and he flipped out.
It wasn’t planned….although Barry tried to stage the scene around the pool as a “suicide pact”….the TPS knew she was killed in the kitchen and she was already dead before the belt was wrapped around her neck.
No forced entry.
No murder suspects.
M/S!
They’re will NEVER be an arrest of the “multiple murderers”.
Nobody will ever collect the 10 million.
Job well done Greenspan! Lol

Thank you so much for answering my question. One follow-up... if Honey was murdered in a fit of rage, what do you think was used to do it?

For those questioning the M/S and his statements... I feel like it's very unique to have an insider to the case here. This is someone who actually knew BS. The Sherman kids aren't here talking to us, but he is. Whatever theory I believe or don't believe, hearing from KW is always going to be insightful.

 

[juli99]

Just some additional brainstorming. Is the reason the murder scene is so confusing, because it is a double murder staged as a murder suicide staged as a double suicide? Meaning, did the killer want to make it look like Barry killed Honey, but then Barry staged it as a double suicide? So it was staging of staging?

 

[newclues]

Everything about this case is interesting and confusing due to the many different angles and directions that it can take us in that has to be covered and looked at no matter where it takes us.

 

[WINDSOR]

I would guess half the friends and family of individuals over 70 years old assume the older person is suffering from some level of dementia. Most of my kids question my sanity on a regular basis as I theirs! Parents with grown children know of what I speak.

A diagnosis of dementia is often a challenge for an MD to make, let alone a VI.

To kill someone in a fit of rage is something very unusual for the vast majority of society, and is most often the culmination of previous incidents of physical abuse. Again I refer to the Nichole Brown Simpson murder by OJ. I mentioned this case sometime ago, and asked if anybody, knew of any incident where Barry had physically abused Honey?

Nobody, not family, sister, children, friends, police or sleuthers have come forward with with any incidents where Honey was physically abused by Barry. I think we do great disrespect to Barry's memory when we accuse him, without real proof, of spousal abuse and murder.

Each of us can believe what we want, but if we follow the evidence and not opinions, we will get to the truth.

Excerpt from https://endingviolence.org/files/uploads/Spot_the_Signs_0.pdf

Abuser History Violence History Note:

A man who routinely intimidates, threatens or assaults other people will sooner or later turn his abuse on his partner. One of the most common research findings is that people with a history of violence are much more likely to engage in future violence.

 Does the Abuser have a history of any actual or attempted violence, threats or intimidation on any person outside the family who has not been in an intimate relationship with him? (i.e.. friends, acquaintances, co-workers or strangers) Previous Domestic Violence History Note: A history of Domestic Violence is the second most common risk factor found to be present in Domestic Homicides. Research studies indicate that men who are severely verbally abusive are very likely to become physically violent against their partners. (79%)*

 Does the Abuser have a history of stalking, harassment, assaults, threats, sexual assaults, property damage or other abusive behaviours against his partner or a previous intimate partner?

 Is there escalation in the frequency/severity of violence or abuse towards the abused partner, family members, a pet or another person? (physical, psychological, emotional, sexual etc.)

 Is there any history of threats or actual violence or abusive behaviour against children, pets, other family members, friends, co-workers, or other persons such as a new intimate partner?

 Has the Abuser ever forcibly confined his partner or taken her hostage?

 Has the Abuser ever strangled, choked or bitten his partner? Assaulted her while she was pregnant?

 Does the Abuser minimize or deny any previous spousal assault history? Restraining Orders Note: The question of whether to get a restraining order in the first place is very complex because some Abusers will respond to one as to a red flag waved in his face. If possible you should speak to an Advocate for abused women before deciding whether to seek an order.

 Has the Abuser ever violated a Court Order?

 Is the Abuser presently bound by any Court Orders? Alcohol/Drugs Note: Present in 42% of Domestic Homicides.*

 Does the Abuser have a history of drug or alcohol abuse? Employment Instability Note: Present in 39% of Domestic Homicides.*

 Is the Abuser unemployed or experiencing financial problems? Mental Illness Note: Depression is the fourth most common risk factor (58%)*

 Is the Abuser depressed or does he have a history of depression in the opinion of professionals (physicians, counsellors etc.) or non-professionals (abused partner, friends, family, co-workers etc.)

 Does the Abuser have a history of other mental illnesses (e.g. bipolar, paranoia, schizophrenia)?

 Has the Abuser threatened or attempted suicide? (If YES, when and how?)

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

rbbm

Can you please post that photo? I haven’t seen it. (I did a search for it and cannot find it.)

it was in the link with the pictures of inside the house, and you see the room right by the entrance HS was said to use, you see a white pad on the wall. I am looking it may be in an older thread.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Not dotr, but I remembered the article:

“The trainer left. The furnace repair man came upstairs after an hour and also left. As is often the case in search warrant documents made public, some of his statements are redacted with large black lines. As the man walked to his van he spotted frozen footprints on the partially heated ramp to the underground garage. They looked old, he thought.”
‘Someone has killed my clients’: Newly released documents detail the day Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead, and what police did after

thank you, sorry thought it was Dotr.