Bobbi Pearl
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got the answer already, thanks Lexiintoronto! it was for the ties.
CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18
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I agree, there were better ways. But what story does it tell? I'm literally still confused.
Lexiintoronto
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This is a repost, also a hanging, I believe you pointed out before (bbm):
“The prominent Kremlin critic Nikolai Glushkov was strangled at his home in south-west London by an unknown assailant who wrapped a dog lead around his neck in a crude attempt to “simulate” the appearance of suicide, an inquest heard.
Glushkov’s body was discovered on 12 March 2018 at his suburban home in New Malden. His daughter Natalia Glushkova told the hearing that she and Glushkov’s partner, Denis Trushin, had called round that evening after growing concerned.
They discovered Glushkov lying face down in the hallway. A “red dog lead” had been double-looped around his neck. There were “marks” and obvious signs of bruising, the inquest heard. A small two-step ladder was found next to his body, as well as a blue rope on the staircase.
A postmortem, however, found signs Glushkov had been murdered. These included fractures to his larynx and hyoid bones, as well as superficial injuries to his face. A paramedic who came to the scene, Dominic Beil, said he immediately called the police because he felt the scene was suspicious.
Beil said that in suicide cases the ladder was typically kicked over but in this case remained upright. He said he found Glushkova sobbing in the kitchen. Glushkov was dressed in a green polo shirt and tracksuit bottoms and was clearly dead, he said….
…His killer tried to stage a suicide, but the pathology evidence saw right through that.”
Murder of Kremlin critic in London ‘was made to look like suicide’ | UK news | The Guardian
Lexiintoronto
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If this was staged to appear as a m/s I think they had to make it look sudden. Maybe it was set up to look like they argued about something when Barry arrived home. Honey put on her coat and shoes and tried to leave and that’s where the argument escalated to where she is killed. He then killed himself.
The evidence refutes this and destroys any of the attempts of staging if this is what the killer was trying portray.
It looks like it may have bought the killer around at least a week of time between going from a m/s to a m/m which may have thrown off LE from the important first 48 hours in a murder case so that here we are after 4 years later with the video of the NW being released.
Bobbi Pearl
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This is the part that I get stuck in, the staging and what it is intended to "tell" and to WHOM is the message for? The message could have been to B&H themselves as they could have been alive and sitting "attached" to the railing. Or the message could have been to the rest of the family, who did immediately take extra precaution and added security, or it could have been to someone else for another reason totally.
The how they were killed, surprised or not by someone already in the home or they let them in tells us little to anything IMO.
I remember very early reports that the realtor said they looked like puppets, this has always stuck in my mind -hung up like puppets, this is probably one of the better descriptions we have heard from anyone that actually saw them positioned when found. Facing homeland during celebrations also seems very personal and religious.
Maybe this is why this room was chosen, (so they would be in the most NW or SE area of the home (not sure where the pool is on a compass) like a Fung Shui money tree plant, you need to be positioned facing a certain direction to bring money to your home, maybe this is a religious statement that HS's sister and family understood? I lean toward the pool room with coats on to confuse the time of death. LE are confident the time of death was 36hrs before they were found, I think NW and last know communication gives them this confidence. The gardener said the lips were purple and skin blue and rigor mortis would have been completing its process, she did not say they were stiff, the puppet comment makes me think they were limply hanging.
Rigor Mortis
In general: If the body feels warm and no rigor is present, death occurred under 3 hours before. If the body feels warm and stiff, death occurred 3-8 hours earlier. If the body feels cold and stiff, death occurred 8-36 hours Death and Kinetics.
What happens to the body 36 hours after death?
With the onset of putrefaction, rigor mortis passes off, and secondary relaxation occurs. Secondary relaxation occurs at around 36 hours after death due to the breakdown of the contracted muscles due to decomposition. Rigor mortis is the post mortem stiffening/ rigidity of the body.Jul 26, 2021
Postmortem Changes - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › books › NBK539741
https://juniperpublishers.com/jfsci/pdf/JFSCI.MS.ID.555771.pdf
Bobbi Pearl
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Also if the deaths were 36 hours before that would be TOD around 11:30 pm Wed night. Both deaths are said to be 36 hrs, specific, not a range this is the only timeframe given. So either the murderer arrived later and had them dress as if to leave the home then decided to take them to the pool room to kill them, or he was in the home for 3 hours, inferring from LE reports and videos they have show suspect passing the last camera before the Shermans home at around 9pm, not showing up on the next camera on the street after the Sherman residence, thus stopped at the Shermans, then have the same individual coming into view at or just before midnight, within the last camera last seem and retracing the walk to the Shermans in the reverse direction.
Window21
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I have mentioned my thoughts on this before and I will mention them again here.
JMO, I have NEVER thought the killer intended this to look like a m/s.
Even the people that found BS and HS stated they were murdered. It never entered their mind it was a m/s.
Why on earth the police thought that is beyond me. No one can kill themselves by hanging off a 3 or 4 foot pool raining. It is virtually impossible for this to happen if your an adult.
But I do agree it was totally staged for some reason.
1. BS glasses were on his face perfectly
2. His legs were crossed
3. Both in a semi seated position
The killer did that and took care to do that for some reason. The killer also hung them from that railing for some reason, and JMO I am thinking they were all ready dead when he hung them from that railing. Perverse/sick sense of humor maybe, or a way to embarrass them even in death?
Here is a great article detailing how the bodies appeared staged and they compare that to the statues.
Barry and Honey Sherman’s bodies were found posed like the sculptures in their basement
JMO, I have NEVER thought the killer intended this to look like a m/s.
Even the people that found BS and HS stated they were murdered. It never entered their mind it was a m/s.
Why on earth the police thought that is beyond me. No one can kill themselves by hanging off a 3 or 4 foot pool raining. It is virtually impossible for this to happen if your an adult.
But I do agree it was totally staged for some reason.
1. BS glasses were on his face perfectly
2. His legs were crossed
3. Both in a semi seated position
The killer did that and took care to do that for some reason. The killer also hung them from that railing for some reason, and JMO I am thinking they were all ready dead when he hung them from that railing. Perverse/sick sense of humor maybe, or a way to embarrass them even in death?
Here is a great article detailing how the bodies appeared staged and they compare that to the statues.
Barry and Honey Sherman’s bodies were found posed like the sculptures in their basement
Thanks, I get it now. It is staged to look like BS did not mean to kill HS, it just happened. Then to deal with it, he killed himself.
I'm not sure if I can ask this, but does KW think the M/S was planned beforehand or happened in a fit of rage?
I was reading this article that has lots of his statements.
Winter's own immediate reaction on learning of their deaths, he said was: '*advertiser censored**ing hell he finally did it. Barry finally killed the b****.'
Canadian tycoon Barry Sherman 'killed wife then himself' | Daily Mail Online
I thought it was totally possible. <modsnip -off topic>
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Does this appear to be the work of someone whose first and second only kills these were or does this appear to be the work of someone who has already killed several others before? The fact that the killer took some time to move the bodies and pose them rather than just leave them where they were killed and leave the house right after killing them may provide a clue.
Window21
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If various MSM are correct, they think it was a hired hit man. So yes, they have killed in the past
High-profile killings usually involve well-paid professional mercenary assassins.
Yes- I wasn't thinking at the time of my post that zip ties would specifically be something LE was looking for (given their initial thoughts of M/S) Instead, anything that they found in the drains on the street.
Agreed.
IIRC (my memory may be faulty after 4 years) was it the case that BS keys were not found at the crime scene?
FromGermany1
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If the double murder was staged as M/S indeed, the killer would have known about Honey's and Barry's most important reason to have a very biiiig argument, IMO: the new mansion, Barry didn't want to move to. Nothing was closer in time than the meeting with architects and builders. If someone had faked M/S in mind, then he had to have also a REASON (for LE) in mind. Otherwise it doesn't make a lot of sense. MOO
The fact bodies were moved to pool room and staged with the victims' coats on, tells another story.
Sometimes families have 'stories' that are only known to the family members, and which have great meaning to them, that will be only shared among themselves.
Outsiders rarely hear these stories, and when they do, rarely understand them. I think this possibly might be what is happening in this situation.
Mom and dad really embarrassed us when they took us to a pool party and refused to go in the pool, and just sat around and gawked at everybody.
Who knows? This could be a distorted memory from some child.
Sometimes families have 'stories' that are only known to the family members, and which have great meaning to them, that will be only shared among themselves.
Outsiders rarely hear these stories, and when they do, rarely understand them. I think this possibly might be what is happening in this situation.
Mom and dad really embarrassed us when they took us to a pool party and refused to go in the pool, and just sat around and gawked at everybody.
Who knows? This could be a distorted memory from some child.
Lexiintoronto
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No mention of keys so far from what I’ve read. Has anyone found a link discussing their keys?
Searched last night and could not find a reference to Barry's keys, every search term brought me to the estate agent using their keys to enter the home, will keep eyes open though..
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