CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18

[ldlager]

Thank you. Part of me wishes I could have gone through it all myself, since it might have helped with some unanswered questions. I will note that when a death is not discovered for several days, there is a level of physical contamination to the air in the space that permeates everything. I'm not sure if that would have been the case for the Shermans since they were in the enclosed pool room.

If we had been demolishing the house, I might have done the same as the Shermans and left everything there. I feel like any documents should have been saved though. It was a crime scene after all, and you never know the significance of something like that.

Juli sorry to hear of your loss. Is there a specific reason why you could not personally go through his things? Was this some kind of order/instruction from LE? Ordo you mean you just couldn't emotionally bear to do so?

 

[ldlager]

Thank you. Part of me wishes I could have gone through it all myself, since it might have helped with some unanswered questions. I will note that when a death is not discovered for several days, there is a level of physical contamination to the air in the space that permeates everything. I'm not sure if that would have been the case for the Shermans since they were in the enclosed pool room.

If we had been demolishing the house, I might have done the same as the Shermans and left everything there. I feel like any documents should have been saved though. It was a crime scene after all, and you never know the significance of something like that.

Juli sorry to hear of your loss. Is there a specific reason why you could not personally go through his things? Was this some kind of order/instruction from LE? Ordo you mean you just couldn't emotionally

I am still laughing, thank you for the morning giggle.

This person is 5ft tall, too short for the perp I think. And with their gait the head bobs, understanding with the hood up on the NW we may not see that but this person's head is like a bird pecking when walking like they have a rod/pole going up the back from the butt to the shoulders, the upper body is rigid and the feet are heels in and toes pointing outward with each step. The penguin analogy works here too, except for the head bobbing.

Maybe the NW has had back surgery and has fused bones and does not bend the midsection when in motion?

I for one would be interested in seeing a video.......

 

[ldlager]

Price’s initial quotes were not directed to the press although they were present. I recall it was the evening of December 14th and the comments were directed to a group of concerned neighbours who gathered outside of the Sherman residence wondering what had happened, I recall one man asking if he should take his family to stay at a motel. However I don’t have a link, many of these early reports have been deleted.

Misty I assume you mean the 15th? The bodies weren't discovered until the 15th.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I am curious how many people had keys, (or security pin number) to access the Sherman home. We know they had quite a few people coming and going regularly so did they all have keys? We have the housekeepers, plant water person, personal trainer, assistants, gardener (maybe) and of course the real estate people, and there may be more. These are just the one's I can think of at that moment. I am also assuming the children had keys to the home as well. For example, I am one of 4 siblings and we all have keys to the family home.

I am curious how the alarm system was "turned off", was the alarm system disarmed with a code, or was the power disabled to it and it was now not "alerting" at all. The housekeeper made note it was not the norm for her to enter and it is "turned off", which makes you think she has a code to enter.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Juli sorry to hear of your loss. Is there a specific reason why you could not personally go through his things? Was this some kind of order/instruction from LE? Ordo you mean you just couldn't emotionally


I for one would be interested in seeing a video.......

sorry I am not comfortable filming a neighbor and putting it up on any website. They do not walk the same gait as the NW in the videos published. They do however have a distinctive walk, so I do believe if someone sees the video and knows that person, they will recognize the "walk" 100%.

IMO LE has some idea of either who this person may be or who they may be associated with, possibly releasing the video when they did it was to watch this person/affiliate for actions and reactions to the release of this video and back up details about the video, let the public talk and see if they can stress someone out enough to make a mistake.

 

[ldlager]

sorry I am not comfortable filming a neighbor and putting it up on any website. They do not walk the same gait as the NW in the videos published. They do however have a distinctive walk, so I do believe if someone sees the video and knows that person, they will recognize the "walk" 100%.

IMO LE has some idea of either who this person may be or who they may be associated with, possibly releasing the video when they did it was to watch this person/affiliate for actions and reactions to the release of this video and back up details about the video, let the public talk and see if they can stress someone out enough to make a mistake.

Thanks Bobbi, I wasn't serious about seeing a film, bad attempt at a joke on my part I guess

 

[juli99]

Juli sorry to hear of your loss. Is there a specific reason why you could not personally go through his things? Was this some kind of order/instruction from LE? Ordo you mean you just couldn't emotionally bear to do so?

Thank you. It was not an order from LE. In short, it was due to physical contamination of the space, we didn't feel equipped to handle it. Both from how he had been living and also due to the death. If you've ever seen those shows where people live in squalor, it was similar to that.

 

[ldlager]

Thank you. It was not an order from LE. In short, it was due to physical contamination of the space, we didn't feel equipped to handle it. Both from how he had been living and also due to the death. If you've ever seen those shows where people live in squalor, it was similar to that.

Ok thanks.

 

[MistyWaters]

Misty I assume you mean the 15th? The bodies weren't discovered until the 15th.

Yes you’re quite right, my mistake, the 15th, later the same evening of the discovery of the bodies.

I can imagine the frightened concern of the neighbours, same as would occur on most residential streets. They can’t have known whether the victims were long dead or if police arrived because one of the Shermans called 911 in the midst of a violent attack/robbery and a suspect was thought to still be hiding in the vicinity.

 

[newclues]

One would think that their datebook for their real estate showings would be an important piece of evidence that would not be left behind by LE as the urban explorer found there.

 

[WINDSOR]

IMO LE has some idea of either who this person may be or who they may be associated with, possibly releasing the video when they did it was to watch this person/affiliate for actions and reactions to the release of this video and back up details about the video, let the public talk and see if they can stress someone out enough to make a mistake.

Yup, the TPS know who the NW is, he is the guy who was involved in the Sherman's murders.
By now they may even know the identity of the NW, but are not about to release the name to the public until they have him in custody.

Curiously nobody has commented on my thought that the Sherman's brought someone home with them that last evening. You remember the TPS did not want to show the pictures of the Sherman's cars coming home to the public, because there may have been something in those photos present or missing.

If there was someone in the cars besides the Sherman that would turn the whole case on its head. The TPS knows if there was, but are not saying. Interesting.

 

[deugirtni]

.... what is in his hand?

TORONTO, ON - JANUARY 26 - Former Toronto police Det. Maritn... News Photo - Getty Images

Great finds! No idea what he is holding in his hand.. can anyone hazard a guess? It seems like it could be something perhaps 'electronic'... or could it be some kind of photography equipment? Tripod? Selfie stick? Measuring tool? The other fellow is on his cellphone.

If you zoom in, the screen on that thing is kind of a rectangle, it doesn't look like a camera lens. Could it be some sort of scanner or rangefinder? I can't find anything similar online.

'monocular' (like binocular except single) on a selfie stick?

Possibly some kind of high intensity LED light source? They're used in forensic photography.

I asked a fellow sleuther buddy who's into photography if they had any idea on what this equipment was and I think they got it!

"That looks like a Sony Handycam 4K on a monopod."

 

[deugirtni]

Yup, the TPS know who the NW is, he is the guy who was involved in the Sherman's murders.
By now they may even know the identity of the NW, but are not about to release the name to the public until they have him in custody.

Curiously nobody has commented on my thought that the Sherman's brought someone home with them that last evening. You remember the TPS did not want to show the pictures of the Sherman's cars coming home to the public, because there may have been something in those photos present or missing.

If there was someone in the cars besides the Sherman that would turn the whole case on its head. The TPS knows if there was, but are not saying. Interesting.

I have always wondered if there was more to the filming of 'lookalike' vehicles and actors duplicating the Shermans' final trip home for the TV program '5th Estate'.. the filming was done just two days prior to the TPS press conference announcing double homicide. On that day there were also cops on the Sherman roof and forensic vans in the driveway. I wondered if TPS was given access to the neighbours' security footage or other footage to see how much they could see, if anyone else was in the vehicle with either of them, etc.

"As it has been for the past 40 days, a Toronto Police car on Wednesday was out front of the York Mills mansion of billionaire couple Honey and Barry Sherman, who were found dead inside Dec. 15. Two police forensic vans were also parked inside the yellow tape.
...
For a few hours, it had the look that the Shermans were alive and back on Old Colony Rd.

It was surreal.

With a camera crew capturing it all, the lookalikes were driving up and down the street and turning into the driveway of a house next door. It was certainly eye catching.
...
It wasn’t a movie but a re-enactment for an upcoming episode of the CBC’s The Fifth Estate — which will detail the final trip home for the philanthropic couple whose bodies were discovered in the pool area of their home. Toronto Police are now investigating what they say is a suspicious death.
...
They were using a 2004 Mustang, resembling the 1999 Mustang driven by Barry Sherman. His Mustang was towed for testing from the Sherman’s property Jan. 15.
...
On Wednesday, police were on the mansion’s roof again but that did not stand out as much as the actors dressed up as Honey and Barry Sherman."

Sherman lookalikes 'eerie' as camera crews roll into neighbourhood | Toronto Sun

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Yup, the TPS know who the NW is, he is the guy who was involved in the Sherman's murders.
By now they may even know the identity of the NW, but are not about to release the name to the public until they have him in custody.

Curiously nobody has commented on my thought that the Sherman's brought someone home with them that last evening. You remember the TPS did not want to show the pictures of the Sherman's cars coming home to the public, because there may have been something in those photos present or missing.

If there was someone in the cars besides the Sherman that would turn the whole case on its head. The TPS knows if there was, but are not saying. Interesting.

rbbm

I lean towards there not being anyone in Honey’s SUV because it took 9 months for the police to ask for fingerprints or DNA from people known to have been in her vehicle.

(page 278 of KD’s ebook.)

And it took a month until they towed Barry’s car from the garage.

Second vehicle towed from Sherman mansion

I don’t think it’s 100% conclusive proof, but it makes me think they have reason to believe that no one got into their vehicles.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Yup, the TPS know who the NW is, he is the guy who was involved in the Sherman's murders.
By now they may even know the identity of the NW, but are not about to release the name to the public until they have him in custody.

Curiously nobody has commented on my thought that the Sherman's brought someone home with them that last evening. You remember the TPS did not want to show the pictures of the Sherman's cars coming home to the public, because there may have been something in those photos present or missing.

If there was someone in the cars besides the Sherman that would turn the whole case on its head. The TPS knows if there was, but are not saying. Interesting.

From the reports with the NW that they have video of this person walking in both directions to and from the home, I did not think that is how it started. Also that LE does not mention any other non-identified people that they found on the streets in their collected videos that night. So if the person did arrive in a car was this a co-conspirator, and the NW walked to the residence? how did they leave undetected by cameras? not impossible to do if you want to but we have NW on camera.

Possibly the NW is seen on the street in the headlights of BS or HS as they arrived to the driveway? I think this because the neighbor's camera sightlines are to the street and would not show the Sherman driveway let alone the entrances. Or protecting the neighbor's privacy and do not want to give away where the camera caught these details they are trying to keep private and from the public knowledge, like the direction the (BS or HS?)vehicle was seen and where. it did not take us long to figure out where the NW was on the video they did share.

 

[deugirtni]

rbbm

I lean towards there not being anyone in Honey’s SUV because it took 9 months for the police to ask for fingerprints or DNA from people known to have been in her vehicle.
View attachment 336948
(page 278 of KD’s ebook.)

And it took a month until they towed Barry’s car from the garage.

Second vehicle towed from Sherman mansion

I don’t think it’s 100% conclusive proof, but it makes me think they have reason to believe that no one got into their vehicles.

But according to KD's interpretation of the warrants and ITOs he has seen, police were behaving as if they believed it was a M/S. They seemingly didn't think it important to take prints from people they knew were in the home shortly before their deaths until nine months after the fact. From what we've seen published, it appears LE was trying to figure out how the killer could have arrived (hence being on the roof?), where the killer disposed of the wrist ties (it's been said that's what they were searching for in the sewers nearby?), and where the killer came from, where he went, how he got there, etc. Is it possible the killer could've arrived with them in one of their vehicles (known or unbeknownst to them), and then left via the basement door which we understand was found unlocked?

 

[WINDSOR]

From the reports with the NW that they have video of this person walking in both directions to and from the home, I did not think that is how it started. Also that LE does not mention any other non-identified people that they found on the streets in their collected videos that night. So if the person did arrive in a car was this a co-conspirator, and the NW walked to the residence? how did they leave undetected by cameras? not impossible to do if you want to but we have NW on camera.

I am pretty sure the TPS has identified everybody else in the area with the exception of the NW. We know how the NW left, on foot. Remember we only were made aware of the NW because the TPS had not been able to identify him. If we take the corollary view, that implies to me at least, the TPS have identified the co-conspirator.

A co-conspirator could have left by uber or taxi.
'Barry gave me a ride to his house, I picked up some papers, and left by a car service. Both Honey and Barry were fine and alive when I left.'
Prosecution would have a difficult time convincing a jury that this co-conspirator was involved.

Now I understand I could be way off on a wrong tangent, and that is why seeing those photos of the Shermans arriving in their separate cars are so relevant.

I personally believe that the NW had help. High risk in one killer being sent to dispose of two individuals, especially when no weapons like firearms or knives involved.

 

[ldlager]

I am pretty sure the TPS has identified everybody else in the area with the exception of the NW. We know how the NW left, on foot. Remember we only were made aware of the NW because the TPS had not been able to identify him. If we take the corollary view, that implies to me at least, the TPS have identified the co-conspirator.

A co-conspirator could have left by uber or taxi.
'Barry gave me a ride to his house, I picked up some papers, and left by a car service. Both Honey and Barry were fine and alive when I left.'
Prosecution would have a difficult time convincing a jury that this co-conspirator was involved.

Now I understand I could be way off on a wrong tangent, and that is why seeing those photos of the Shermans arriving in their separate cars are so relevant.

I personally believe that the NW had help. High risk in one killer being sent to dispose of two individuals, especially when no weapons like firearms or knives involved.

Re your last sentence, we don't actually know if the killer (s) had weapons like firearms or knives with them, and whether he/she/they used them to threaten the Shermans. Based on what has been disclosed so far, it doesn't seem knives or guns were used in the actual murders, but they still could have been used by the murderer(s) to threaten or control the Shermans. MOO

 

[FromGermany1]

I don't know, how many surrogates were used for BS' three children. Sometimes I'm thinking about their role and their needs, they might have had. Afaik, mainly poor woman serve as a surrogate.
What, if one of them felt, she had thoroughly taken advantage of by the multimillionaire parents and wanted money or revenge?
Of course, I would wonder about the timing, which was so very sophisticated, as it sems.

 

[ollie2]

I don't know, how many surrogates were used for BS' three children. Sometimes I'm thinking about their role and their needs, they might have had. Afaik, mainly poor woman serve as a surrogate.
What, if one of them felt, she had thoroughly taken advantage of by the multimillionaire parents and wanted money or revenge?
Of course, I would wonder about the timing, which was so very sophisticated, as it sems.

I acknowledge what you are saying, but there are also many very wealthy surrogates that do such for many different reasons. Not that financial status has anything to do with intelligence- but my guess is that the Sherman's were very particular with respect to whom they chose as a surrogate.