CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18

[dotr]

Toronto Star receives eight National Newspaper Award nominations | The Star
March 18 2022
''The Toronto Star has received eight nominations at this year’s National Newspaper Awards.
Among the Toronto Star’s nominations, investigative reporter Kevin Donovan is a nominee in three categories and Kelsey Wilson gets two nominations.''

''Sustained News Coverage: Kevin Donovan has been nominated for his relentless reporting on the Barry and Honey Sherman’s murder case and his efforts to get the police files opened up to public scrutiny.''

 

[WINDSOR]

Re your last sentence, we don't actually know if the killer (s) had weapons like firearms or knives with them, and whether he/she/they used them to threaten the Shermans. Based on what has been disclosed so far, it doesn't seem knives or guns were used in the actual murders, but they still could have been used by the murderer(s) to threaten or control the Shermans. MOO

Fair enough, the killer(s) may have weapons in their possession to coerce the Shermans to follow instructions. If on the other hand, the killer(s) 'ambushed' the victims as they entered the home, there would have been no need for weapons. There is some indicators that an ambush was what happened, based on things ending up on the floors.

Specifically I was referring to the fact no weapons were used in the killings, which implies to me that the possibility of more than one assailant was present. Again this is all predicated on what the photos of the Sherman's vehicles show when they arrive home.

 

[ollie2]

I find it strange too. My brother died alone in his home, and although my dad and I could not personally go through his things, we had a cleanout company go in and set aside anything of significance. Any documents, books, artwork, etc. they placed in one room for us to pick up. I will say, it is an extremely awful feeling being in a house where someone has died. I could never stay more than 20 minutes.

That had to be really tough Juli99- I am so sorry.....

 

[ollie2]

I find it strange too. My brother died alone in his home, and although my dad and I could not personally go through his things, we had a cleanout company go in and set aside anything of significance. Any documents, books, artwork, etc. they placed in one room for us to pick up. I will say, it is an extremely awful feeling being in a house where someone has died. I could never stay more than 20 minutes.

That had to be really tough Juli99- I am so sorry.....

 

[WINDSOR]

rbbm

I lean towards there not being anyone in Honey’s SUV because it took 9 months for the police to ask for fingerprints or DNA from people known to have been in her vehicle.
View attachment 336948
(page 278 of KD’s ebook.)

And it took a month until they towed Barry’s car from the garage.

Second vehicle towed from Sherman mansion

I don’t think it’s 100% conclusive proof, but it makes me think they have reason to believe that no one got into their vehicles.

I would tend to agree, except, we do not know when the TPS had finished examining all the videos from the neighbours. What if the TPS did not see the video of Barry driving home for a month. Then the TPS see something that peaked their interest, and then they went through Barry's car.
Let me put it this way, really no reason to go through Barry's car, unless the TPS felt there was something in there that was relevant.

Again, it may be a wild hunch on my part, to think somebody was in the car with Barry or Honey, but since the TPS will not release the photos, we just do not know.

 

[sammarlowe]

Has anyone read Just 2 Seconds by Gavin de Becker? Just 2 Seconds by Gavin de Becker I'm currently waiting for a copy to arrive and wonder if it would have any insightful information.

 

[juli99]

That had to be really tough Juli99- I am so sorry.....

Thank you, yes it's been tough. I have to wonder about the Sherman children and HS sister.... do they spend their days wondering who the killer was? Do they think they know who did it but can't prove it? If that were me, I'd be spending every day trying to figure it out.

I asked a fellow sleuther buddy who's into photography if they had any idea on what this equipment was and I think they got it!

"That looks like a Sony Handycam 4K on a monopod."
View attachment 336941

Thank you! It was bugging me that I couldn't figure out what that was.

 

[Window21]

True Crime Society - The unsolved murders of Canadian billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman


This is the first I am hearing of this. I wonder if there is any truth to it? If this is true, maybe it was the NW or the hit man doing a facetime tour?

"The source also recalled an odd event that happened on December 9, 2017, just days before the Shermans were murdered. A realtor came in and explained that a prospective buyer wanted to view the property via facetime. The realtor gave a tour over the phone and Honey even waved to the camera at one point. The source said this was odd as the person viewing the property would not show their face and was asking questions via text message, instead of just speaking. Very strange."

 

[dotr]

True Crime Society - The unsolved murders of Canadian billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman


This is the first I am hearing of this. I wonder if there is any truth to it? If this is true, maybe it was the NW or the hit man doing a facetime tour?

"The source also recalled an odd event that happened on December 9, 2017, just days before the Shermans were murdered. A realtor came in and explained that a prospective buyer wanted to view the property via facetime. The realtor gave a tour over the phone and Honey even waved to the camera at one point. The source said this was odd as the person viewing the property would not show their face and was asking questions via text message, instead of just speaking. Very strange."

2019 rbbm.
Honey Sherman ‘updated’ her will shortly before billionaire couple slain, confidant reveals - WWWHive Digital
''Roughly a week after the Nov. 13, 2017, birth of the Sherman couple’s third grandchild, Honey told one of her confidants she had just that day “updated” her will at a lawyer’s office.
“Honey and I were talking and she said meet me at Yonge and St. Clair Avenue. She said she was just coming from her lawyer’s office and she had just updated her will. She had done some amendments,” the confidant told the Star. “Honey said she wanted me to first go with her to Loblaws to get those frozen croissants from Ace Bakery that she liked, then we would go to her home.”

''Over the time the service provider worked for Honey, Honey often stressed the importance of having a will and “making sure everything is protected,” said the service provider.
The Star has agreed not to identify the person — we will refer to the person as one of Honey’s service providers — due to the individual’s concern for safety.''

"The detective asked questions, including whether Honey had any marks on her body when the service provider last saw her (the service provider said no). The service provider volunteered to the detective that Honey had, according to Honey, updated her will recently.

The service provider also told the detective about an odd occurrence at the Sherman home on Saturday, Dec. 9, 2017 — just a few days before the murders (though the Sherman bodies were discovered on Dec. 15, they were likely killed on Dec. 13). Their house was on the market, listed at $6.9 million. While the service provider was with Honey, a Sherman realtor came in and explained that a person was interested in seeing the home using FaceTime. The realtor walked through the house, even pointing the phone at Honey and the service provider. Honey waved, the service provider recalled.

What struck the service provider as particularly odd is that the person viewing the images could not be seen on the FaceTime screen and the person was asking questions by sending text messages — not speaking.

 

[WINDSOR]

2019 rbbm.
Honey Sherman ‘updated’ her will shortly before billionaire couple slain, confidant reveals - WWWHive Digital
''Roughly a week after the Nov. 13, 2017, birth of the Sherman couple’s third grandchild, Honey told one of her confidants she had just that day “updated” her will at a lawyer’s office.
“Honey and I were talking and she said meet me at Yonge and St. Clair Avenue. She said she was just coming from her lawyer’s office and she had just updated her will. She had done some amendments,” the confidant told the Star. “Honey said she wanted me to first go with her to Loblaws to get those frozen croissants from Ace Bakery that she liked, then we would go to her home.”

''Over the time the service provider worked for Honey, Honey often stressed the importance of having a will and “making sure everything is protected,” said the service provider.
The Star has agreed not to identify the person — we will refer to the person as one of Honey’s service providers — due to the individual’s concern for safety.''

"The detective asked questions, including whether Honey had any marks on her body when the service provider last saw her (the service provider said no). The service provider volunteered to the detective that Honey had, according to Honey, updated her will recently.

The service provider also told the detective about an odd occurrence at the Sherman home on Saturday, Dec. 9, 2017 — just a few days before the murders (though the Sherman bodies were discovered on Dec. 15, they were likely killed on Dec. 13). Their house was on the market, listed at $6.9 million. While the service provider was with Honey, a Sherman realtor came in and explained that a person was interested in seeing the home using FaceTime. The realtor walked through the house, even pointing the phone at Honey and the service provider. Honey waved, the service provider recalled.

What struck the service provider as particularly odd is that the person viewing the images could not be seen on the FaceTime screen and the person was asking questions by sending text messages — not speaking.

I believe the consensus is that the Shermans had been under surveillance, by the hit team, for some weeks prior to their deaths. So the FaceTime viewing of the home, fits that scenario.
Regarding the will Honey was supposedly speaking of, no Law firm has come forward with a will, nor has one been found elsewhere. Based on how Barry's will was structured, Honey had no need for a will. I doubt one existed for Honey.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I believe the consensus is that the Shermans had been under surveillance, by the hit team, for some weeks prior to their deaths. So the FaceTime viewing of the home, fits that scenario.
Regarding the will Honey was supposedly speaking of, no Law firm has come forward with a will, nor has one been found elsewhere. Based on how Barry's will was structured, Honey had no need for a will. I doubt one existed for Honey.

I still hum and haw on the HS will, I think she had one but for her business affairs and that it was not public and thus well hidden knowledge from prying eyes of the media. She had properties in her name, she had to have something to say what to do in case she passed, she got through throat cancer, she would have questioned her mortality during that experience I expect. I do not think the service provider made up those statements, for what purpose? those comments were made long before people found out she did not have an estate will.

In line with this thinking, do you think that Honey then was the target and Barry came home unexpectedly - earlier than normal? Was the murderer in the process of hiding and staging HS in the pool room when BS walked in?

I can understand an international buyer touring via facetime, and if they do not speak English to use texting apps to do the language translation it is plausible. But I have always been curious, why would the realtor show HS to the buyer, the last thing realtors want is to include the owner in any viewing? But if this were the NW/Killer or an accomplice masking and hiding the facetime call & text details would have been required. This could be done via rerouting and spoofing but it would be evident to LE technical forensic investigators that the person was attempting to hide their actual identity by spoofing etc. The LE is just as curious as we are and have looked under all rocks, we have discussed this in the past so I must assume LE has confirmed who that facetime buyer was, where they were from, and are those the same people that were onsite touring when they were found.

It may be a translation of languages but the initial interviews with people that fled the home that Fri morning said it was a poor joke but immediately ran and had a bad omen sense, why did they understand the staging to mean something to them, especially when it is said they did not have any interest in the pool, IMO they would have filled it in if they bought the home as it was not a requirement of theirs.

after all that to recap it leaves me with a few questions;

1. was the facetime real estate agent the same agent that toured the home on Fri Dec 15?
2. did the facetime agent show the pool area on this tour? Edit to clarify, on the facetime call did they show the pool area
3. has this facetime real estate agent shown this property to anyone else?
4. were the buyers who were touring the home on Fri Dec 15th the same people who previewed the home via a facetime call?
5. why did the buyers or real estate agent think it was a leftover Halloween display when they were looking at the backs of two people sitting such a far distance away?
6. what appeared sinister from the other end of the room that made them flee the home and become angry, and angry at whom?
7. was HS the target, (remove her, stop the new build, and make it easier to manipulate BS for $$)?
*. Edit to add 8. did the facetime realtor do any other facetime viewings with anyone else? did she show HS in that if the answers was yes

 

[Warwick1991]

Although it is less common, I've been to a few real estate showings where the owner is present. Sometimes, this is helpful. On one occasion, I looked at a condominium property here in Florida, and the owners were very helpful - they answered questions about the condominium association and the amenities on site. On another occasion, there was a disabled family member, and the owner and the family member stayed on site. Some owners at occupied properties are concerned about the security of their belongings. Here in Florida, the most common practice during a showing is that the owner is not present, but not always. So perhaps the agent got an impromptu request for a Facetime showing and didn't think it was really unusual. The inability to see the prospective buyer is very odd, IMO, and suspect. From what I can tell, Facetime is mainly used with a smartphone or tablet with 2-way visual and audio contact. The camera has to be purposely disabled on one side to prevent visual contact.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Although it is less common, I've been to a few real estate showings where the owner is present. Sometimes, this is helpful. On one occasion, I looked at a condominium property here in Florida, and the owners were very helpful - they answered questions about the condominium association and the amenities on site. On another occasion, there was a disabled family member, and the owner and the family member stayed on site. Some owners at occupied properties are concerned about the security of their belongings. Here in Florida, the most common practice during a showing is that the owner is not present, but not always. So perhaps the agent got an impromptu request for a Facetime showing and didn't think it was really unusual. The inability to see the prospective buyer is very odd, IMO, and suspect. From what I can tell, Facetime is mainly used with a smartphone or tablet with 2-way visual and audio contact. The camera has to be purposely disabled on one side to prevent visual contact.

agree with you, it is the same in Ontario, most often no owner, it can create legal issues if they share information that is not true or misleading and the buyer finds out after the fact, not even realtor assistants can share any information if they are not licensed they are not insured and backed by a broker, this is why most agents will do what they can to not involve the owner.

Possibly the person on the other end was in a public place and did not want to show where they were calling from, we are not aware if it was only when the person showed HS to the screen that they did not see anyone, maybe they were off-screen for a second and not the whole call?

 

[JayFriend]

Regarding a prospective buyer or real estate agent getting a tour over Facetime, not showing their face and asking questions by text. Some people are just shy. However, the number of the caller would have been on Honey's phone and her account. Unless it was blocked or from a burner. But why would she have given someone from an unknown or blocked number? Would you? Very suspicious. Someone casing the joint?

 

[deugirtni]

Regarding a prospective buyer or real estate agent getting a tour over Facetime, not showing their face and asking questions by text. Some people are just shy. However, the number of the caller would have been on Honey's phone and her account. Unless it was blocked or from a burner. But why would she have given someone from an unknown or blocked number? Would you? Very suspicious. Someone casing the joint?

From my understanding it was not H who was giving the video tour, it was the realtor, while H was receiving service from one of her service providers... so the number wouldn't have shown on H's phone, but possibly on the realtor's phone... hopefully LE has followed up with that.

 

[juli99]

My thoughts have always been...

The facetime call was weird, but not connected to the crime. Who would be dumb enough to do that? They had photos and a floor plan, what good would a video tour of the house do?

I am really bothered by the comments about HS having a will. There is absolutely no reason for her not to have a will. Having just gone through a situation where someone did not have a will. It is a big pain in the you know what, everywhere you turn, someone needs the will. Without the will, you go to probate court. Barry's will can't be a replacement for her will unless somehow it was joint, which I don't understand it to be.

 

[deugirtni]

Although it is less common, I've been to a few real estate showings where the owner is present. Sometimes, this is helpful. On one occasion, I looked at a condominium property here in Florida, and the owners were very helpful - they answered questions about the condominium association and the amenities on site. On another occasion, there was a disabled family member, and the owner and the family member stayed on site. Some owners at occupied properties are concerned about the security of their belongings. Here in Florida, the most common practice during a showing is that the owner is not present, but not always. So perhaps the agent got an impromptu request for a Facetime showing and didn't think it was really unusual. The inability to see the prospective buyer is very odd, IMO, and suspect. From what I can tell, Facetime is mainly used with a smartphone or tablet with 2-way visual and audio contact. The camera has to be purposely disabled on one side to prevent visual contact.

I have been given a real estate video tour by a realtor who used their phone, but on my end, I was seeing it on my desktop computer, where I have a large screen, unlike a phone would've been.... my computer doesn't even have a camera, so there is no possibility of me doing a video call with anyone where I am able to also appear on the screen. This particular agent who gave me the tour, did it via facebook video.. so I was able to type (text?) a question, or I could listen to the agent and respond or ask questions via my microphone... but I happen to have a headset with mic, so I was able to do that.. however, sometimes it is tricky getting that to work with the application. If someone isn't very computer literate or experienced with technology and/or equipment, I can easily see what has been described. I am thinking this video call was a nothing-burger, because someone from some other city or country could have been receiving a legit tour of the listed property.. presumably that would've been a fairly easy thing for LE to follow up on. I doubt if a 'hitman' would take that risk. OTOH, it could've been anyone, even the person who potentially hired the potential hitman, possibly from a different country from a burner phone that was spoofed to appear as not coming from a different country. Would police have done a warrant for the agent's cellphone to check it out? KD hasn't mentioned it.. but lots has been redacted.. who knows. Just want it to be solved.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Regarding a prospective buyer or real estate agent getting a tour over Facetime, not showing their face and asking questions by text. Some people are just shy. However, the number of the caller would have been on Honey's phone and her account. Unless it was blocked or from a burner. But why would she have given someone from an unknown or blocked number? Would you? Very suspicious. Someone casing the joint?

I assumed the facetime call was on the realtor's device, not HS. HS was told to wave to the camera by the agent, I picture her waving to the agent across the room.

 

[ldlager]

Regarding a prospective buyer or real estate agent getting a tour over Facetime, not showing their face and asking questions by text. Some people are just shy. However, the number of the caller would have been on Honey's phone and her account. Unless it was blocked or from a burner. But why would she have given someone from an unknown or blocked number? Would you? Very suspicious. Someone casing the joint?

I m sure the licenced realtor that has the facetime client has been questioned by police.

 

[WINDSOR]

Bobbi Pearl said "I still hum and haw on the HS will, I think she had one but for her business affairs and that it was not public and thus well hidden knowledge from prying eyes of the media. She had properties in her name, she had to have something to say what to do in case she passed, she got through throat cancer, she would have questioned her mortality during that experience I expect. I do not think the service provider made up those statements, for what purpose? those comments were made long before people found out she did not have an estate will.

Remember Barry ruled the family regarding business and financial matters. If he told Honey she did need a will she would not have one. Barry's thinking would be if Honey dies first everything comes to me according to the law, plus she does not have much, why pay a lawyer. Again if a will existed, a lawyer would have likely acknowledged that fact by now.

I do not believe the service provider made up anything, but we do not know exactly what Honey said, and in what context. Often employers, for different reasons, tell or imply to their staff details that are not exactly accurate. Has your boss ever mislead you?