CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #19

[Lexiintoronto]

I am assuming all Canadian police follow these guidelines.

Acts, Regulations and Policy - Canada.ca

Find the acts, bills, regulations and policy, including Commissioner's Directives, that govern the work of the Correctional Service of Canada.

www.csc-scc.gc.ca

Protecting the Scene of a Crime​

1. A possible scene of a crime must be treated with the utmost care so as to not contaminate or destroy evidence. The following minimum protocol will be adhered to in order to protect the scene of a crime:
   1. establish a perimeter to protect the scene
   2. evacuate non-involved persons
   3. prevent unauthorized persons from entering the crime scene or contaminating any evidence
   4. prevent any damage or further damage
   5. maintain an accurate "scene log" to record the names and the times of everyone who enters and/or leaves the scene
   6. for court purposes, record names and times of any individuals who enter the scene who do not have a bona fide requirement to do so and advise the Correctional Manager of this fact
   7. maintain control of the scene until relieved by a designated officer or by police
   8. when another officer arrives to assume control of the scene, verbally confirm this as a fact and record the time and the person's name and rank.

from the above link, this was interesting see #12 and 13:

Preservation of Evidence​

1. The following steps will be taken to preserve evidence:
   1. do not move anything unless absolutely necessary
   2. to the extent possible, avoid contaminating evidence
   3. photograph or video record the scene as well as individual objects before moving anything
   4. protect forensic evidence from the elements
   5. record and identify any evidence found or moved (i.e. what, where, by whom and when)
   6. maintain evidence in possession of the person who seized it until it can be handed over to police or properly stored using the Contraband/Unauthorized Item Seizure Tag (CSC/SCC 0482)
   7. keep each piece of evidence separate from other pieces of evidence in order to prevent cross-contamination
   8. use a paper bag for blood-stained items
   9. isolate witnesses from each other and from other persons, and record their statements on the Statement/Observation Report (CSC/SCC 0875) (see Instructions (CSC/SCC 0875-01) for completing the form)
   10. do not disturb a computer when it is part of an incident scene, and immediately notify both the Chief, IT Client Services, and the Manager, Information Technology Security
   11. when a computer is part of an incident scene and there is an apparent attempt to alter computer evidence (such as a rapidly blinking hard drive access light), turn the computer off as quickly as possible and protect it from contamination
   12. when a cell phone or other mobile device(s) is part of an incident scene, take precautions to safeguard the information on the device by turning off the device as quickly as possible, removing the SIM card (if applicable) and contacting the Assistant Deputy Commissioner, Institutional Operations
   13. secure range tapes and Main Communication Control Post recordings following a suicide or any other incident that is likely to result in a national investigation.

That is interesting.

Barry had a Blackberry and KD described the murder scene and said his phone was ‘close by’. I took that to mean on or near him. We know about Honey’s iPhone and that it was found in the upstairs powder room.

I googled, but don’t understand #13 at all. (Something specific about police communications? ) If someone could explain, I’d appreciate it.

ETA: I went to the link you provided, and it was under ‘correctional services Canada’, so maybe ‘range tapes’= prison grounds surveillance tapes/videos(?) ‘Main Control Post’=the centre of the prison where the persons in charge are (?). And then they’re referring to the suicide of an inmate that is of national importance (An El Chapo-type.) (?)

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

That is interesting.

Barry had a Blackberry and KD described the murder scene and said his phone was ‘close by’. I took that to mean on or near him. We know about Honey’s iPhone and that it was found in the upstairs powder room.

I googled, but don’t understand #13 at all. (Something specific about police communications? ) If someone could explain, I’d appreciate it.

ETA: I went to the link you provided, and it was under ‘correctional services Canada’, so maybe ‘range tapes’= prison grounds surveillance tapes/videos(?) ‘Main Control Post’=the centre of the prison where the persons in charge are (?). And then they’re referring to the suicide of an inmate that is of national importance (An El Chapo-type.) (?)

I pictured the police do not cross tape to seal off up to where they think the crime scene ends when I read it. But now that you ask, good question.

I added crime scene before Main Communication Control Post recordings and found this, it too is interesting, I have not finished reading it all yet, but the reference to recording is note taking, recording of your observations and fact collecting. But many of the topics address some of the questions we had in other posts.

Chapter 8: Crime Scene Management – Introduction to Criminal Investigation: Processes, Practices and Thinking

pressbooks.bccampus.ca

Topic 2: Integrity of the Crime Scene​

As part of crime scene management, protecting the integrity of the crime scene involves several specific processes that fall under the Tasks category of the STAIR Tool. These are tasks that must be performed by the investigator to identify, collect, preserve, and protect evidence to ensure that it will be accepted by the court. These tasks include:

a) Locking down the crime scene

b) Setting up crime scene perimeters

c) Establishing a path of contamination

d) Establishing crime scene security

When an investigator arrives at a crime scene, the need to protect that crime scene becomes a requirement as soon as it has been determined that the criminal event has become an inactive event and the investigator has switched to a strategic investigative response.

a) Locking Down the Crime Scene​

Very often, when the change to strategic investigative response is recognized, first responders and witnesses, victims, or the arrested suspect may still be inside the crime scene at the conclusion of the active event. All these people have been involved in activities at the crime scene up to this point in time, and those activities could have contaminated the crime scene in various ways. Locking down the crime scene means that all ongoing activities inside the crime scene must stop, and everyone must leave the crime scene to a location some distance from the crime scene area. Once everyone has been removed from the crime scene, a physical barrier, usually police tape, is placed around the outside edges of the crime scene. Defining of the edges of the crime scene with tape is known as establishing a crime scene perimeter. This process of isolating the crime scene inside a perimeter is known as locking down the crime scene.

c) Path of Contamination​

It is not possible to eliminate all potential contamination of a crime scene. We can only control and record ongoing contamination with a goal to avoid damaging the forensic integrity of the crime scene and the exhibits. Once a crime scene has been cleared of victims, witnesses, suspects, first responders, and investigators, it is necessary to record, in notes or a statement from each person, what contamination they have caused to the scene. The information being gathered will document what evidence has been moved, what evidence has been handled, and by whom. With this information, the investigator can establish a baseline or status of existing contamination in the crime scene. If something has been moved or handled in a manner that has contaminated that item before the lock down, it may still be possible to get an acceptable analysis of that item if the contamination can be explained and quantified.

As an example, sometimes in cases of serious assaults or even murders, paramedics have been present at the scene treating injured persons. When this treatment is happening, non-suspect-related DNA transfer between persons and exhibits can occur. Determining those possibilities is one of the first steps in establishing the level of existing contamination at the time of lock down.

With everyone now outside the crime scene and the perimeter locked down, the next step is to establish a designated pathway where authorized personnel can re-enter the crime scene to conduct their investigative duties. This pathway is known as a path of contamination and it is established by the first investigator to re-enter the crime scene after it has been locked down. Prior to re-entering, this first investigator will take a photograph showing the proposed area where the path of contamination will extend, and then, dressed in the sterile crime scene apparel, the investigator will enter and mark the floor with tape to designate the pathway that others must follow. In creating this pathway, the first investigator will avoid placing the pathway in a location where it will interfere with apparently existing evidence and will place it only where it is required to gain a physical view of the entire crime scene. As other investigators and forensic specialists enter the crime scene to perform their duties, they will stay within the path of contamination and, when they leave the path to perform a specific duty of investigation or examination, they will record their departure from the path and will be prepared to demonstrate their departure from the pathway and explain any new contamination caused by them, such as dusting for fingerprints or taking exhbits

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I pictured the police do not cross tape to seal off up to where they think the crime scene ends when I read it. But now that you ask, good question.

I added crime scene before Main Communication Control Post recordings and found this, it too is interesting, I have not finished reading it all yet, but the reference to recording is note taking, recording of your observations and fact collecting. But many of the topics address some of the questions we had in other posts.

Chapter 8: Crime Scene Management – Introduction to Criminal Investigation: Processes, Practices and Thinking

pressbooks.bccampus.ca

Topic 2: Integrity of the Crime Scene​

As part of crime scene management, protecting the integrity of the crime scene involves several specific processes that fall under the Tasks category of the STAIR Tool. These are tasks that must be performed by the investigator to identify, collect, preserve, and protect evidence to ensure that it will be accepted by the court. These tasks include:

a) Locking down the crime scene

b) Setting up crime scene perimeters

c) Establishing a path of contamination

d) Establishing crime scene security

When an investigator arrives at a crime scene, the need to protect that crime scene becomes a requirement as soon as it has been determined that the criminal event has become an inactive event and the investigator has switched to a strategic investigative response.

a) Locking Down the Crime Scene​

Very often, when the change to strategic investigative response is recognized, first responders and witnesses, victims, or the arrested suspect may still be inside the crime scene at the conclusion of the active event. All these people have been involved in activities at the crime scene up to this point in time, and those activities could have contaminated the crime scene in various ways. Locking down the crime scene means that all ongoing activities inside the crime scene must stop, and everyone must leave the crime scene to a location some distance from the crime scene area. Once everyone has been removed from the crime scene, a physical barrier, usually police tape, is placed around the outside edges of the crime scene. Defining of the edges of the crime scene with tape is known as establishing a crime scene perimeter. This process of isolating the crime scene inside a perimeter is known as locking down the crime scene.

c) Path of Contamination​

It is not possible to eliminate all potential contamination of a crime scene. We can only control and record ongoing contamination with a goal to avoid damaging the forensic integrity of the crime scene and the exhibits. Once a crime scene has been cleared of victims, witnesses, suspects, first responders, and investigators, it is necessary to record, in notes or a statement from each person, what contamination they have caused to the scene. The information being gathered will document what evidence has been moved, what evidence has been handled, and by whom. With this information, the investigator can establish a baseline or status of existing contamination in the crime scene. If something has been moved or handled in a manner that has contaminated that item before the lock down, it may still be possible to get an acceptable analysis of that item if the contamination can be explained and quantified.

As an example, sometimes in cases of serious assaults or even murders, paramedics have been present at the scene treating injured persons. When this treatment is happening, non-suspect-related DNA transfer between persons and exhibits can occur. Determining those possibilities is one of the first steps in establishing the level of existing contamination at the time of lock down.

With everyone now outside the crime scene and the perimeter locked down, the next step is to establish a designated pathway where authorized personnel can re-enter the crime scene to conduct their investigative duties. This pathway is known as a path of contamination and it is established by the first investigator to re-enter the crime scene after it has been locked down. Prior to re-entering, this first investigator will take a photograph showing the proposed area where the path of contamination will extend, and then, dressed in the sterile crime scene apparel, the investigator will enter and mark the floor with tape to designate the pathway that others must follow. In creating this pathway, the first investigator will avoid placing the pathway in a location where it will interfere with apparently existing evidence and will place it only where it is required to gain a physical view of the entire crime scene. As other investigators and forensic specialists enter the crime scene to perform their duties, they will stay within the path of contamination and, when they leave the path to perform a specific duty of investigation or examination, they will record their departure from the path and will be prepared to demonstrate their departure from the pathway and explain any new contamination caused by them, such as dusting for fingerprints or taking exhbits

So they set up a ‘path of contamination’, that makes sense.

The most important parts of the pool room itself and few other places seem to have been clear of being contaminated.

I remember that the gardener went down and saw the Shermans, and realized they were deceased. She didn’t touch them, and advised 911 she would not be performing CPR:

“Claire Banks arrived while they were discussing what to do. Banks is a gardener who came on Fridays to tend to the indoor plants. The housekeeper let her in. According to Banks’ interview with police, she said she told Stern she would go to the basement. She said she was not scared. She was, however, wondering if there was a carbon monoxide problem that might explain whatever had happened…

…
Banks also called 911, as did a cousin of Honey’s in Toronto who was apparently alerted by Shechtman. Banks told a 911 dispatcher the two people in the pool room were certainly dead and “she would not be performing CPR.”

Toronto Fire Department arrived first after the 11:44 a.m. call. A firefighter noted “they were blue in colour with obvious signs of rigour mortis.” Police arrived a little later, at 11:54 a.m.”

‘Someone has killed my clients’: Newly released documents detail the day Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead, and what police did after

Even as friends and associates of Barry and Honey Sherman insisted they were murdered, Toronto police continued to pursue the theory that Barry killed Honey, then himself, newly released police

www.toronto.com

ETA: Another quote from the gardener from link above:

‘Banks came back upstairs at this point “shaking and said that the Shermans were blue and clearly dead.” In a statement that was passed on to Shechtman that morning, Banks told Stern, “They were murdered.”’

 

[ldlager]

So they set up a ‘path of contamination’, that makes sense.

The most important parts of the pool room itself and few other places seem to have been clear of being contaminated.

I remember that the gardener went down and saw the Shermans, and realized they were deceased. She didn’t touch them, and advised 911 she would not be performing CPR:

“Claire Banks arrived while they were discussing what to do. Banks is a gardener who came on Fridays to tend to the indoor plants. The housekeeper let her in. According to Banks’ interview with police, she said she told Stern she would go to the basement. She said she was not scared. She was, however, wondering if there was a carbon monoxide problem that might explain whatever had happened…

…
Banks also called 911, as did a cousin of Honey’s in Toronto who was apparently alerted by Shechtman. Banks told a 911 dispatcher the two people in the pool room were certainly dead and “she would not be performing CPR.”

Toronto Fire Department arrived first after the 11:44 a.m. call. A firefighter noted “they were blue in colour with obvious signs of rigour mortis.” Police arrived a little later, at 11:54 a.m.”

‘Someone has killed my clients’: Newly released documents detail the day Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead, and what police did after

Even as friends and associates of Barry and Honey Sherman insisted they were murdered, Toronto police continued to pursue the theory that Barry killed Honey, then himself, newly released police

www.toronto.com

ETA: Another quote from the gardener from link above:

‘Banks came back upstairs at this point “shaking and said that the Shermans were blue and clearly dead.” In a statement that was passed on to Shechtman that morning, Banks told Stern, “They were murdered.”’

Ms Banks is clearly a most brave woman to volunteer to go down to the pool room. She is not, however, a pathologist, so her comment about the Shermans being murdered surely didnt carry any weight with LE. Unless of course there was compelling evidence at the scene that this was a double murder (although I don't know what that could be).

 

[newclues]

Is this about the NW that was shown on a video around one year later?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/cn-canada-billionaire-deaths-1.5816882

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Ms Banks is clearly a most brave woman to volunteer to go down to the pool room. She is not, however, a pathologist, so her comment about the Shermans being murdered surely didnt carry any weight with LE. Unless of course there was compelling evidence at the scene that this was a double murder (although I don't know what that could be).

She’s brave and she was perceptive enough to do all the right things.

I’m not clear sometimes when I post. I was trying to respond to what @Bobbi Pearl posted about police investigation methods and the question of contaminated

ETA: I’m trying to correct the post but my page keeps automatically refreshing and I lose the edits.

I was trying to say that I was trying to determine which areas of the home and crime scene were left untouched prior to homicide stepping in.

 

[ldlager]

She’s brave and she was perceptive enough to do all the right things.

I’m not clear sometimes when I post. I was trying to respond to what @Bobbi Pearl posted about police investigation methods and the question of contaminated

No worries.
Except for waiting for 90 minutes to call police IMO

 

[Lexiintoronto]

No worries.
Except for waiting for 90 minutes to call police IMO

From the court records I don’t think that 90 minute delay is accurate. KD first reported that, but he later was successful at having the witness statements unsealed by the court which contradict that.

Banks, the gardener, checked on the Shermans and then called 911 and told them she wouldn’t be performing CPR. I don’t think she hesitated.

Realtor Stern and the housekeeper did delay, but I think they were in shock.

*All my view only based on recent articles by KD. We don’t know the time that the Shermans were found, just when realtor Stern arrived (about 10:45-10:50). She brought the clients and other realtor on a tour of the home that started upstairs and ended with the pool room, and we don’t know how long that took. The Toronto Fire Dept. and paramedics responded at about 11:45, and the police responded about ten minutes later.

 

[Kerry Winter]

Like most people following the case, we’re reading the truth as it unfolds in respectable MSM and the records that Kevin Donovan (for the most part) has been uncovering.

Donovan is simply “milking the cow” and his coverage is misleading and inaccurate.

 

[rkendmar]

I have been intermittently following the Honey & Barry case so I am not up to date on many details.
Can anyone provide a list of 'who would benefit' from their deaths?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I have been intermittently following the Honey & Barry case so I am not up to date on many details.
Can anyone provide a list of 'who would benefit' from their deaths?

-the four heirs. One was expected to repay BS $50-60 million at the time of the murders. He owed between $150-200 million to him.

-people who thought they would be named as beneficiaries, but apparently were not

-business enemies in the generic pharmacy world

-people who lost in lawsuits to the Shermans. Some lawsuits were appealed after the murders. The theory is that they may have thought they’d win on appeal with the two Shermans deceased.

-some people owed millions to the Shermans and the theory is that they expected the debts would die with them.

-the benefit is unclear to me, but someone who simply wanted the Shermans dead for their own reasons that aren’t apparent.

 

[rkendmar]

-the four heirs. One was expected to repay BS $50-60 million at the time of the murders. He owed between $150-200 million to him.

-people who thought they would be named as beneficiaries, but apparently were not

-business enemies in the generic pharmacy world

-people who lost in lawsuits to the Shermans. Some lawsuits were appealed after the murders. The theory is that they may have thought they’d win on appeal with the two Shermans deceased.

-some people owed millions to the Shermans and the theory is that they expected the debts would die with them.

-the benefit is unclear to me, but someone who simply wanted the Shermans dead for their own reasons that aren’t apparent.

Are the Sherman homicides considered to be 'professional hits'?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Are the Sherman homicides considered to be 'professional hits'?

I don’t think that’s ruled out, but no official source such have LE have said that yet. Some people here have made good arguments for it being a hit.

Criminologist Michael Arntfield and other criminal profilers have said that the murders seem personal. Arnfield told the CBC that you have to consider the strength and how up close and intimate it is to kill two people with ligatures. What would motivate the killer? Why not simply shoot them?

But it’s anyone’s guess.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Donovan is simply “milking the cow” and his coverage is misleading and inaccurate.

This doesn’t invalidate your opinion, but he’s a highly respected, award-winning journalist for one of the best papers in Canada. He’s also the reason that so many court records have been released in this case. He represented the Star in court and even the judge commended him for his work on this matter.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Devil’s Advocate here. KD is in a perfect position to milk the cow. JMO

 

[ldlager]

Devil’s Advocate here. KD is in a perfect position to milk the cow. JMO

Does Donovan’s employer pay him more $ every time he reports on this case?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Does Donovan’s employer pay him more $ every time he reports on this case?

I don't know anything about what journalists are paid BUT when the anniversary came up this year, I said to myself - "here comes another book by KD". JMO

 

[WINDSOR]

Are the Sherman homicides considered to be 'professional hits'?

Define professional.
Do you mean...
The crime was done at a behest of another person?
Someone got hired and paid?
The crime was done with a high level of expertise?
The actual killer(s) had previous experience?
There was little evidence that pointed to any suspects?

Of course there is the 'Up close and personal' aspect of ligature strangulation. However there is a history of hit men, receiving specific guidance and instructions how the crime should carried out.

 

[ldlager]

I don't know anything about what journalists are paid BUT when the anniversary came up this year, I said to myself - "here comes another book by KD". JMO

He is a journalist. He investigates, reports, and writes. That’s what he does. He has no control over whether the case is being solved. Unlike police. Would you say that the same argument can be used regarding LE? The longer the case goes unsolved, the more secure their jobs, as police are needed to solve the crimes…..? MOO

 

[Lonicera]

Define professional.
Do you mean...
The crime was done at a behest of another person?
Someone got hired and paid?
The crime was done with a high level of expertise?
The actual killer(s) had previous experience?
There was little evidence that pointed to any suspects?

Of course there is the 'Up close and personal' aspect of ligature strangulation. However there is a history of hit men, receiving specific guidance and instructions how the crime should carried out.

Absolutely. You can imagine a qualified hit man capable of committing these murders at the behest of the sponsor. If that were the case, he must have been able to stage the bodies after they died: this suggests that he was a real professional. Of course these are only personal guesses.