Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

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The other lights in the photograph of the Sherman pool are *on*, however there is no light coming from the black box in the upper right corner wall in their pool room.. the picture you have posted above - it is not the Sherman pool, correct?
Correct this is not the Sherman's pool.

Looking at the one in the top corner of the room adjacent to the Sherman's pool, I would say it is a very odd placement for a light. It looks like a camera to me, or at least something rigged up to an alarm system like a motion sensor.
 
A nihilist, emotionally cold and narcissistic, extremely driven to win, a workaholic who it appears devoted himself primarily to building his business success, minimal close social contacts, concerned about his legacy... who retired several years ago and was no longer active in the day to day business and at 75 was likely experiencing some age related decline...

I can certainly see someone with those personality traits finding aging intolerable. The physical and mental changes that come with aging, and seeing a future of further decline... it wouldn't surprise me a bit if he decided to go out on his own terms. If life is without meaning, other than his personal drive to succeed, which was now a part of his past, why carry on? Why deal with memory loss, ED, incontinence, declining hearing and vision, etc.?

I think we are reading into things. Has anyone said if he has been dealing with memory loss? ED? Incontinence? Declining vision and hearing? He was 75, not 95, and even I remember my grandmother who at 95 but was otherwise as sharp as a tack and other than arthritis was in good physical shape.

I'm a bit concerned that we are reading into the Sherman's (especially Barry) what we want to read. When he passed he was celebrated as being a philanthropist, now he's a cold narcissist? Says who, the cousins who just seemed to want an unlimited checking account?

He was thinking about death and his mortality twenty years ago. His unfinished memoir was all about himself and his work, with barely a couple of lines mentioning his family. What does a man like him do when his work is no longer there? Most people have religious and/or family and social ties, and are able to find life meaningful in any number of ways. It doesn't appear that he had any of that.

Lots of people write memoirs long before their death. Winston Churchill wrote one of his autobiographies in 1930 (he was 44, and of course this was well before WW2.)

I can't really fault him for writing about his work. If I was related to someone famous, I'd probably prefer for them not to write about me, thank you very much, but also these are usually business books (think the autobiography of Warren Buffett, or someone like that.) People reading these books are typically in it for the story of how they built their business. It's not really an autobiography as much as it is a book about being an entrepreneur. If his family was a key part of building the business, then it would make sense to write about them, but it sounds like Honey was focused on the family and the kids decided to do their own thing as kids are want to do.

I'm re-reading Mindhunter now, and maybe I'm alone, but I'm reading it for the stories about the beginning of profiling, not about John Douglas' family.
 
A nihilist, emotionally cold and narcissistic, extremely driven to win, a workaholic who it appears devoted himself primarily to building his business success, minimal close social contacts, concerned about his legacy... who retired several years ago and was no longer active in the day to day business and at 75 was likely experiencing some age related decline...

I can certainly see someone with those personality traits finding aging intolerable. The physical and mental changes that come with aging, and seeing a future of further decline... it wouldn't surprise me a bit if he decided to go out on his own terms. If life is without meaning, other than his personal drive to succeed, which was now a part of his past, why carry on? Why deal with memory loss, ED, incontinence, declining hearing and vision, etc.?

He was thinking about death and his mortality twenty years ago. His unfinished memoir was all about himself and his work, with barely a couple of lines mentioning his family. What does a man like him do when his work is no longer there? Most people have religious and/or family and social ties, and are able to find life meaningful in any number of ways. It doesn't appear that he had any of that.

Exit stage left.

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While this resonates, I just can't wrap my head around why he would choose to murder HS, as well. It's all so tragic. I can't help but remain on the fence, until we (if we ever do) get more information.
 
Correct this is not the Sherman's pool.

Looking at the one in the top corner of the room adjacent to the Sherman's pool, I would say it is a very odd placement for a light. It looks like a camera to me, or at least something rigged up to an alarm system like a motion sensor.

Possibly a speaker.
 
Quote: 318


Quote Originally Posted by deugirtni View Post
Thank you for posting. Quote doesn't work: should be: http://frankmag.ca/2017/12/what-happ...-the-shermans/
I see that article leaves out Mossad. That's my top choice, looking at Barry's political lobbying.

For the first time, I read in this article that the Shermans with were both found hanging with their coats and boots on. The boots still being on is new information for me. It looks more and more like a highly professional ambush contract killing, or possibly someone with a terrible motive for revenge, like the male cousins who lost the lawsuit, and who are appealing ( pictures show a strong. tall fit looking man called Kerry Winter, for one), who managed to pull off quite a successful murder. Possibly the one mistake we know about so far, and which may negate an attempt to stage it as a murder/suicide, or double suicide, was leaving evidence of some kind that Honey was killed in a secondary location, then moved to the pool. We do not know what LE found to give them that impression. Also, the fact that one of the bodies, possibly Barry, in the grey carrying bag, used to remove his body from the house, does not appear flat like possibly Honey in the dark burgundy bag, indicates that he might still be in rigor-mortis, in a semi sitting position, and that would indicate that he died hours after Honey.

My guess, and that is all it is, is that probably 2 or maybe 3 strong men ( one a look-out and driver of a get-away vehicle ? ) gained entrance to the house, either by carjacking Honey, or simply being there when she arrived and forcing their way into the garage/ house. They must have scoped out the area, and knew that neighbours and the Shermans either did not have outside security cameras, or that they were in some kind of blind area. I would very much like to know what entrance Honey usually used when she drove back to her house. Did she park in the driveway, or enter the garage ? Neighbours would likely know the answer. The Shermans were according to this article at a meeting with their Architect that night, and came home separately. The killers might have decided that it would be easier to quickly kill the Shermans one at a time when no staff would be in the house. Barry came to the meeting from work. Maybe he went back to work that night, and so arrived home some time later. He was known to be a workaholic. I would also like to know what special projects he was working on at Apotec, during the last five years when he was not officially in charge. Did he find out something that he should not have ? Was he developing something that would upset Big Pharma, or Governments ? He was a very brilliant man.

For some reason, I keep thinking about the men's leather belts that were used to hang them. I hope LE tested them for DNA. If Barry had used them, and they were in his closet, the killers might have retrieved them, so that it would look like Barry used his own belts, but if they are new, with no traces of DNA except that placed there by the victims at the time of death, then it might mean the killers brought them with them. The same goes for the rope used to tie the belts to the railing -- I think I read that was part of the method. Did LE find more of it in the house or garage ? or was it new rope brought into the house that night ? These things could be traced, and possibly LE could even find out what stores in the area sold them. That could be a break if amateurs really did do this, but I suspect professionals would have used items from within the house, and may have even retrieved them during a practice run of breaking into the house before Wed. night, or it could have been someone who had the cover of having occasion to work in the house, or being a trusted visitor.

Leaving their jackets and boots on, says to me that they were ambushed at different times, and killed separately. Also having both jackets pulled down in the back, seems like something they may have quickly done to restrain them. The killers may have never entered the rest of the house, using only the garage and pool area. They likely wore gloves, hats, maybe even some kind of cloth bootie over shoes so as to leave no trace, but it is possible that somewhere they made even one mistake, that will lead LE to them. For the sake of justice, if this was a double murder, and I think it was, I hope that LE gets some kind of break, or that the private family investigation turns up something, so that justice will be done for the Shermans. It is also possible sadly, that it was a professional hit, or one very well carried out by amateurs that will never be solved. IMO
 
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...sherman-deaths-checking-sewers-for-clues.html
Police investigating Sherman deaths checking sewers for clues
Sewer searches can sometimes find objects that someone tried to stash, officer explains.
sewer.jpg.size.custom.crop.1086x729.jpg

Using a hydro-excavator — a high powered truck that uses water to remove the sewer’s contents without causing damage — and a magnet attached, Det. Richard Weller of the forensics unit explored the sewers of Old Colony Rd.

He pulled his Toronto police toque over his head as the snow fell Saturday morning. Weller, who worked from 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. Friday night on the investigation, marked observations in a notebook, and pulled up a pile of damp leaves at one point. It’ll be his job later to sort through whatever is found
.
 
Thank you for posting. Quote doesn't work: should be: http://frankmag.ca/2017/12/what-happened-to-the-shermans/

This article says Honey weighed 180 pounds and he suffered from a bad back.

It seems so hard to imagine he could do the contortions required for this.

The cars were parked on the street, not the garage.

If this article is true, they had their winter outdoor clothes on.

Why would they go down to the pool area in winter outerwear?

If they were wearing winter outerwear, how did he strangle her with a belt?

Did he use hands? Then she would have fought back,

The whole thing is strange.

Unless the coats and boots are made up details.

We think their cars were on the street, however
 
Quote: 318


Quote Originally Posted by deugirtni View Post
Thank you for posting. Quote doesn't work: should be: http://frankmag.ca/2017/12/what-happ...-the-shermans/
I see that article leaves out Mossad. That's my top choice, looking at Barry's political lobbying.

For the first time, I read in this article that the Shermans with were both found hanging with their coats and boots on. The boots still being on is new information for me. It looks more and more like a highly professional ambush contract killing, or possibly someone with a terrible motive for revenge, like the male cousins who lost the lawsuit, and who are appealing ( pictures show a strong. tall fit looking man called Kerry Winter, for one), who managed to pull off quite a successful murder. Possibly the one mistake we know about so far, and which may negate an attempt to stage it as a murder/suicide, or double suicide, was leaving evidence of some kind that Honey was killed in a secondary location, then moved to the pool. We do not know what LE found to give them that impression. Also, the fact that one of the bodies, possibly Barry, in the grey carrying bag, used to remove his body from the house, does not appear flat like possibly Honey in the dark burgundy bag, indicates that he might still be in rigor-mortis, in a semi sitting position, and that would indicate that he died hours after Honey.

My guess, and that is all it is, is that probably 2 or maybe 3 strong men ( one a look-out and driver of a get-away vehicle ? ) gained entrance to the house, either by carjacking Honey, or simply being there when she arrived and forcing their way into the garage/ house. They must have scoped out the area, and knew that neighbours and the Shermans either did not have outside security cameras, or that they were in some kind of blind area. I would very much like to know what entrance Honey usually used when she drove back to her house. Did she park in the driveway, or enter the garage ? Neighbours would likely know the answer. The Shermans were according to this article at a meeting with their Architect that night, and came home separately. The killers might have decided that it would be easier to quickly kill the Shermans one at a time when no staff would be in the house. Barry came to the meeting from work. Maybe he went back to work that night, and so arrived home some time later. He was known to be a workaholic. I would also like to know what special projects he was working on at Apotec, during the last five years when he was not officially in charge. Did he find out something that he should not have ? Was he developing something that would upset Big Pharma, or Governments ? He was a very brilliant man.

For some reason, I keep thinking about the men's leather belts that were used to hang them. I hope LE tested them for DNA. If Barry had used them, and they were in his closet, the killers might have retrieved them, so that it would look like Barry used his own belts, but if they are new, with no traces of DNA except that placed there by the victims at the time of death, then it might mean the killers brought them with them. The same goes for the rope used to tie the belts to the railing -- I think I read that was part of the method. Did LE find more of it in the house or garage ? or was it new rope brought into the house that night ? These things could be traced, and possibly LE could even find out what stores in the area sold them. That could be a break if amateurs really did do this, but I suspect professionals would have used items from within the house, and may have even retrieved them during a practice run of breaking into the house before Wed. night, or it could have been someone who had the cover of having occasion to work in the house, or being a trusted visitor.

Leaving their jackets and boots on, says to me that they were ambushed at different times, and killed separately. Also having both jackets pulled down in the back, seems like something they may have quickly done to restrain them. The killers may have never entered the rest of the house, using only the garage and pool area. They likely wore gloves, hats, maybe even some kind of cloth bootie over shoes so as to leave no trace, but it is possible that somewhere they made even one mistake, that will lead LE to them. For the sake of justice, if this was a double murder, and I think it was, I hope that LE gets some kind of break, or that the private family investigation turns up something, so that justice will be done for the Shermans. It is also possible sadly, that it was a professional hit, or one very well carried out by amateurs that will never be solved. IMO
Very similar thoughts to my own posted upthread earlier today, except I haven't heard the mention of rope before. I must have missed it if it was in that article so I'll have another read.
 
This article says Honey weighed 180 pounds and he suffered from a bad back.

It seems so hard to imagine he could do the contortions required for this.

The cars were parked on the street, not the garage.

If this article is true, they had their winter outdoor clothes on.

Why would they go down to the pool area in winter outerwear?

If they were wearing winter outerwear, how did he strangle her with a belt?

Did he use hands? Then she would have fought back,

The whole thing is strange.

Unless the coats and boots are made up details.

We think their cars were on the street, however
No to hands - cause of death by ligature.
 
This article says Honey weighed 180 pounds and he suffered from a bad back.

It seems so hard to imagine he could do the contortions required for this.

The cars were parked on the street, not the garage.

If this article is true, they had their winter outdoor clothes on.

Why would they go down to the pool area in winter outerwear?

If they were wearing winter outerwear, how did he strangle her with a belt?

Did he use hands? Then she would have fought back,

The whole thing is strange.

Unless the coats and boots are made up details.

We think their cars were on the street, however
I was under the impression that the cars were parked in the driveway. But I agree, every element of this (if source information is accurate) is so strange.
 
No to hands - cause of death by ligature.

So he went and got something, rope, belt, to strangle her while they were still in winter outerwear?

Don’t people usually take their winter clothing off immediately when going into the house? Why did they not park in the garage? Did they go out and eat after the meeting?

When did they eat?

One article talked about a few years ago that a reporter went to the home. Barry was standing up eating breakfast. A house staff person was there.

Perhaps they did not have anyone to make meals? I know I would have someone to make yummy looking beautiful low calorie meals and clean up the mess.

Some people actually like to cook. I do not
 
I was under the impression that the cars were parked in the driveway. But I agree, every element of this (if source information is accurate) is so strange.
They were parked outside the house but not on the street. At least I saw one dark car parked close to the front entrance but I don't know if it was Barry's car or not. And then there was a pale coloured car parked facing the garage at the top of the ramp.
 
I was under the impression that the cars were parked in the driveway. But I agree, every element of this (if source information is accurate) is so strange.

If in the driveway, where does one enter the house?

Someone posted that the early picture of the house showed the SUV and an older car. Were they both in the dtiveway?

I assumed on the street so I was wrong.
 
Forgive me if this has been posted already... I realize that B was not a religious man, and was in fact an atheist.. however.. they *were* supporters of the Jewish community.. has Hannukah been considered at all as being of any importance in the timing of all of this?

Hanukkah 2017 began in the evening ofTuesday
, December 12


and ended in the evening ofWednesday
, December 20

Yes, I had wondered about the possible significance.
 
If in the driveway, where does one enter the house?

Someone posted that the early picture of the house showed the SUV and an older car. Were they both in the dtiveway?

I assumed on the street so I was wrong.
I would assume that if both cars were parked in the driveway, that they entered the home through the front door.
 
I would assume that if both cars were parked in the driveway, that they entered the home through the front door.
Or they were stopped in the driveway and forced to open the garage door.

If be curious to know if they normally parked in the garage in the winter. The Google pic I'm posting is in nice weather, you can understand why they wouldn't want to go up 2 flights of stairs upon arriving home at night no matter what time of year.
71d1573bb1d45b898d84954dea57cf2f.jpg


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 
I would assume that if both cars were parked in the driveway, that they entered the home through the front door.

Me too. So the pool area in winter clothing is bizarre.
 
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