Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

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All for show. You have an outdoor pool for summer and an indoor heated pool for winter, so why would there be a cover on it and unused in winter? What is the point of having it?
The cover only looks to be a solar blanket, and not a 'cover' per se, to keep the undoubtedly heated water, warm. Once a pool is warm (to whatever temp the couple preferred), it's easy to keep it up to that level by using the cover, with just a bit of gas to top it up every time they wanted to use it. I'll bet that whichever member said it was likely helpful for Honey's arthritis, is right on the money.

Speaking of the pool, is that not a camera in the upper right corner?

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Poor Honey. I just can’t imagine what she saw in him. Being married to someone like that sounds exhausting and, quite frankly, awful. IMO


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It strikes me as very typical of more old-fashioned marriages, where they operate in separate spheres: the man as provider, the woman as homemaker. The husband is the intellectual, worldly, aggressive one, the wife is the emotional, family-oriented, charming one. I think it used to be much more co mon and worked as long as the wife was content with her role.

They were married 46 years, quite an accomplishment
 
I would like to know what source definitively said that belts were involved in this murder suicide or murder? Anyone?
 
Maybe the house looks better in real life. To me, it looks cheerless. The colors are very depressing. But pictures don’t always work to reflect a home’s beauty.

The pool room emanates ugly, to me
 
Maybe the house looks better in real life. To me, it looks cheerless. The colors are very depressing. But pictures don’t always work to reflect a home’s beauty.

The pool room emanates ugly, to me

I just love the style of the house!
 
Maybe the house looks better in real life. To me, it looks cheerless. The colors are very depressing. But pictures don’t always work to reflect a home’s beauty.

The pool room emanates ugly, to me

I agree with that. That pool room looks cold and ugly to me.
 
Poor Honey. I just can’t imagine what she saw in him. Being married to someone like that sounds exhausting and, quite frankly, awful. IMO

*

People change through life.

Meaning?

I was talking about recently, not when she was a blushing bride and he was whatever wonderful thing he was before he “changed through life.” Or are you taking about her changing through life? It’s rather cryptic. Then again I’m fighting off a bad cold, and a bit foggy at the moment, so my apologies if I’m not getting the obvious.


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The cover only looks to be a solar blanket, and not a 'cover' per se, to keep the undoubtedly heated water, warm. Once a pool is warm (to whatever temp the couple preferred), it's easy to keep it up to that level by using the cover, with just a bit of gas to top it up every time they wanted to use it. I'll bet that whichever member said it was likely helpful for Honey's arthritis, is right on the money.

Speaking of the pool, is that not a camera in the upper right corner?

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I think it is a light:
ABZ8dGG.jpg
 
Poor Honey. I just can’t imagine what she saw in him. Being married to someone like that sounds exhausting and, quite frankly, awful. IMO


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What did he see in her?

How awful it must have been for her to live the millionaire life while he did all the dirty work and made all the money.

She didn't seem to complain, criticize, or comment publicly. That leaves complicit. Whatever negative you think he did, she supported it for a majority of her lifetime.
 
Maybe this larger image of the pool helps
 

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What did he see in her?

How awful it must have been for her to live the millionaire life while he did all the dirty work and made all the money.

She didn't seem to complain, criticize, or comment publicly. That leaves complicit. Whatever negative you think he did, she supported it for a majority of her lifetime.
BBM

Ah yes, “complicit”....Dictionary.com word of the year, thanks to SNL. It is a good word and you bring up a good point.
 
A little cheerful decoration. Some plants. Anything to make it attractive
 
I was quite surprised at how spread out geographically the four adult children are.

Pretty sure at least two of the children normally live in Ontario -- likely the locations cited (other than Israel) are vacation spots.
 
Except for the oldest daughter, Honey was not their natural mother. The son and other two daughters were the result of surrogacy.

Some insight to Barry’s thinking - “As a committed Darwinian, he naturally favoured the preservation of his genetic material. In the early 1980s, surrogacy had just become an option in the U.S. It’s likely that his son, Jonathon, was the first child in Canada born to a surrogate mother. “It worked fine.”

https://torontolife.com/from-the-archives/barry-sherman-bitter-pill-from-the-archives/

Not sure what you mean by "natural mother." Surrogacy does not necessarily mean she was not the biological parent, just that she did not carry or give birth to the children.
 
This article helped me understand how "post-mortem redistribution" makes toxicology testing much more difficult than I thought.

Now I see why it can take months of testing.


https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...-barry-sherman-how-do-police-investigate.html

From article:

"There’s a phenomena called post-mortem redistribution that actually takes place after you die,” Fuller explained.

"The concentration of drugs in any given part of the body can fluctuate as the drugs move around after death."

"The central cavity of the body, where the heart and lungs sit, can rise quite a bit in drug concentration – making it harder to determine what happened."

"As a backup for confirmation, they’ll use vitreous humor – the fluid inside the eye, which is mostly sequestered from post-mortem distribution. “Problem is, there’s just very little of it, so we have to use it sparingly,” he said.
 
Not sure what you mean by "natural mother." Surrogacy does not necessarily mean she was not the biological parent, just that she did not carry or give birth to the children.
That is a little unusual though, isn't it? Was there a reason that Honey did not carry or give birth to their children after the first daughter?
 
If they were seated, or when any hanged person is touching the ground or any surface, it's a "partial hanging", and by leaning toward the portion around one's neck, compression leads to losing consciousness. You cannot save yourself at that point between the effect of gravity and continued compression.
IF Honey was killed by Barry elsewhere and moved to the pool railings area already dead, I think it would be difficult for him to even get her into a seated position, let alone to remain in a seated position and lean her forwards and hold steady the belt loop with one hand so that it goes under her chin, being that she would be an uncooperative dead weight.

The moving part could be achieved by dragging but it's the raising of her upper body from a lying position to seated and then the positioning that raises my incredulity with a 75 year old noted to be lethargic and Honey not being a slight or petite lady.

FWIW my doubts aren't so much about whether husbands kill their wives before committing suicide in the most unexpected of cases, it's that it's an awful lot of trouble to go to to stage it as that manner of suicide, given that her death was obviously premeditated. Honey died of ligature neck compression, not by hands. Why would she have been taken surprise like that, if she was dressed in a jacket, so not asleep. I still think it had something to do with arriving home in her car. Plus there must have been evidence she died elsewhere IF the early leaks were true, so he didn't even bother to clear up that scene of death.

I am wondering more if Honey didn't die elsewhere (not substantiated by 'sources' I know) so much as having been injured or incapacitated elsewhere, meaning that she was unconscious and then died by neck compression by the belt. That still doesn't explain how he could have managed that maneuvering or why he would do it. He was known for his intelligence and would have known his suicide set up would be easily discovered by investigators.

It seems this person, whether it was Barry or a third person, mucked up the double suicide staging. If it was Barry that makes no sense because he had time to clean up and because it would have mattered to him. I tend to think currently that if everything else was achieved without a mistake, no traces, this was someone who was covered head to toe including gloves and a mask, not leaving a hair, a fingerprint or touch DNA at the scene. If that is the case, imagine Honey did somehow leave evidence she was attacked somewhere else, be that blood, urine or feces. This hit man isn't going to touch it. That would leave a trail of trace evidence on everything they came into contact with as they made their get away. He could drag Honey with hands under her armpits without stepping in anything.

How to explain Barry's apparent suicide? He is forced to comply, can't see a way out, perhaps thinks even that he is saving Honey by complying, if he knows she has only been injured and there is a chance she won't also be killed.
 
Hi Tortoise,

From the large photo which Otto posted (thanks Otto !) could it be possible that the source's report that Honey Sherman was killed in a "secondary area" be the changeroom across from the pool?

I've been reading some posts here about the possibility of Honey Sherman being accidentally killed in another area and then Barry Sherman staging it to look like a double suicide.

This still seems so mysterious to me.
 
I would like to know what source definitively said that belts were involved in this murder suicide or murder? Anyone?

Good morning Tarika,

The source about the men's belts is quoted as being from the Toronto Sun in other reports as
well:

Excerpt from the ABC article (below):

"While Toronto Police would not comment, The Toronto Sun reported that sources said the Shermans were found "side by side, in their windowless pool room, each with a men’s leather belt wrapped around their necks and tied to the pool railing."



http://abcnews.go.com/US/suspicious-deaths-toronto-billionaire-couple/story?id=51858923
 
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