Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #3

[debanng]

a lot of people sue not knowing what they are suing for happens all the time if disclosure isnt forthcoming. thats how criminals get off.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yup, like the older brother, Tim, who never got on the "give me money" gravy train.

These kids were raised in an affluent home and inherited a substantial sum when they came of age. The older one was successful, the younger ones put their money up their noses.

I was raised in poverty with abusive and uncaring parents. I took advantage of every opportunity that came my way.

These kids had every advantage and they blew it. I have no sympathy.

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Just read your post, gravy train was on my mind at the same time as you wrote it as well. My hand's out to you for overcoming adversity and I agree, it's hard for me to feel any degree sympathy for these cousins.

 

[debanng]

good for a sympathy plea but why state the obvious but not the obvious?

 

[Grey-St]

BBM
I'm not sure, are you suggesting BS had an obligation to watch over his young cousins, even though they were adopted by another couple? Their parents died in 1965, 52 years ago. BS was 75 so he was only 23 years old at the time.

I think if it were me, I'd want to maintain a relationship with my young cousins, yes. I'm not saying it was an obligation, I just think it's sad that it wasn't something that was important to BS.

Keep in mind, that when BS's own father died, his uncle stepped in as a father figure to him. That was reported as something BS said. Then when that same uncle and aunt passed away, the cousins parents, he had no desire to maintain a relationship with them as lets say, an older brother figure? I do find sadness in that family dynamic.

The young cousins being adopted by another family wouldn't stop me, personally. JMO though.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes your right, but it's the principal of it. This should have been righted by the adoptive parents giving the boys their money that was due them. Did Barry have the right to sell Empire since the boys had a stake in it and were promised jobs? ​

After 10 years of legal proceedings the court sided with Sherman.

 

[Grey-St]

Their mother didn't want them raised by relatives. So the rabbi found a couple for them and they were adopted.
BS was in university at the time.

Toronto Life Bitter Pill

So he couldn't maintain a relationship with the kids?

ETA: When I was in my late teens/early twenties, my uncle past away. He had a young child, my cousin. I did my best to maintain a positive relationship with him through the years, as did my sister and parents (my dad being my uncles brother) even though he still had my aunt and lived in another province. The whole family rallied around that child. I think that's how family should be, jmo though.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

After 10 years of legal proceedings the court sided with Sherman.

And in very strong language.

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[debanng]

your situation has nothing to do with theirs. Read the facts and then consider.

 

[debanng]

if the kids had known of the expectations of them perhaps they would have strived for that. cant blame the adoptive parents if they werent told of the clause.

 

[Grey-St]

In 1967 Sherman was 25 and Kerry Winter was 5.

The 4 boys - Paul born in 1958; Jeffrey born in 1960;*Kerry*born in 1961; and Dana born in 1962 (deceased) were all under 8 when their parents died. Horribly sad.

In my opinion, it should have been handled by whoever was taking care of the boys and the estate. That deal was made with a company. Sherman and Ulster. Are they also going after Ulster?
Everything should have been written into the contract at the time of the sale, all contingencies.

Oh and $15000 a month, $180000/year for doing nothing? Yeah, I'll take it.


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Horribly sad, indeed.

And $180,000 a year? Heck, I'd take it too. But we are speaking about a whole different ball game of wealth. I think 20% of a multi-billion dollar company would have amounted to more, but I'm awful at math.

In any sense, I think the cousins just felt wrong all around, in general, and from many different avenues. They were only children at the time, and after poking around as adults, it all just unraveled. They decided to go after a stake in the business. However I think if they did some work with a therapist, they would figure out that their sense of being wronged went much deeper than the financial aspect.

 

[debanng]

its like a greek tragedy.

 

[human]

The mother of the children denied the family her children. Why? Who knows.

Maybe the adoptive parents did not allow a relationship or maybe the children were not near where Barry lived.

He did what he could when he found out. But they had all kinds of strikes against them. The loss of parents. The bad adoptive parents. These kids needed intense counseling but no one knew that kind of thing back then.

No one understood addiction. It was a different world.

I think many people would think getting a hefty allowance each month, homes, cottages and business loans would be lovely. Now we kmow the pain of their losses is what drove them to their addictions.

Back in the day and even now, people think children are reslilienr. We know that is not true even though people still say it

 

[debanng]

they sided with him cause the courts are biased

 

[Grey-St]

Yup, like the older brother, Tim, who never got on the "give me money" gravy train.

These kids were raised in an affluent home and inherited a substantial sum when they came of age. The older one was successful, the younger ones put their money up their noses.

I was raised in poverty with abusive and uncaring parents. I took advantage of every opportunity that came my way.

These kids had every advantage and they blew it. I have no sympathy.

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Good for you for over coming adversity. I know it's not an easy road for everyone, I've been there too.

We really don't know much of what their circumstances were however or what opportunities they had, aside from the financial dealings being reported. And everyone adapts differently and is effected differently, by certain adversities they face, in any phase of life. I'm glad you were able to persevere, however.

 

[Errrr]

It seems what Apotex (and other drug companies) want to develop in medical cannabis in pill form. The advantages are that the THC dosage would be exact, there would be no stigma involved for patients who had it prescribed, and products could be developed with some of the other beneficial but non-hallucinogenic cannabinoids.

My dying mother had a prescription for marinol, pill form of THC. When my mom entered palliative care, you hand the nurses all the prescriptions for them to manage till death. They threw all the marinol pills in the garbage because pot is illegal or some BS like that. That was 2008.

 

[Grey-St]

The mother of the children denied the family her children. Why? Who knows.

Maybe the adoptive parents did not allow a relationship or maybe the children were not near where Barry lived.

He did what he could when he found out. But they had all kinds of strikes against them. The loss of parents. The bad adoptive parents. These kids needed intense counseling but no one knew that kind of thing back then.

No one understood addiction. It was a different world.

I think many people would think getting a hefty allowance each month, homes, cottages and business loans would be lovely. Now we kmow the pain of their losses is what drove them to their addictions.

Back in the day and even now, people think children are reslilienr. We know that is not true even though people still say it

I certainly agree with you. I think Barry did what he thought was right when he found out, and what he was capable of? Not everyone is tapped into their nurturing side, and for their own psychological reasons.

And you're right, we don't know all the circumstances surrounding the adoptive parents, but these children did have a whole family before being orphaned. This wasn't a closed adoption at birth. Family members would have had rights to maintain a relationship with these children.

And children have the ability to be resilient, we all do actually at any age, but it has to be nurtured, encouraged, supported. Without that, there's not much hope unfortunately. Glad times are changing and these facts are more widely accepted now.

 

[zencompass]

Horribly sad, indeed.

And $180,000 a year? Heck, I'd take it too. But we are speaking about a whole different ball game of wealth. I think 20% of a multi-billion dollar company would have amounted to more, but I'm awful at math.

In any sense, I think the cousins just felt wrong all around, in general, and from many different avenues. They were only children at the time, and after poking around as adults, it all just unraveled. They decided to go after a stake in the business. However I think if they did some work with a therapist, they would figure out that their sense of being wronged went much deeper than the financial aspect.

In my opinion, they were wronged as children when Royal Trust and Barry Sherman hid the 15% royalties offer from the Official Guardian as well as the adoptive parents.

Aside from monies they would still be receiving from the royalties, this would have kept a "connection" between them and their father. A connection with their father's purpose. They may have carried on this purpose.

It's astonishing how people lead their lives when they feel "purpose" as opposed to having "no purpose". Feeling lost and disconnected.
I've been considering how the Winter children may have fared, had they received the 15% royalties of their father's work in producing chemical processes of aspirin and valium.

In a sense, they would have stayed "connected" to their father's legacy. The royalties would have been a "continuance" of theiir father's legacy. This may have given them pride and inspired them to make their father proud. It may have given them direction. More than this - it may have given them purpose.

 

[Errrr]

What do you think TPD might hope to find by searching with a metal detector?

I don't think the police have any expectation of finding anything specific to the case. They are just doing their due diligence as requested by the family and Mayor Tory.

 

[Mamamerced]

Even if they had, its near impossible, when young people are involved with drugs, to motivate them to go to university with the expectation they work for an uncle's company, who quite likely held high expectations of his employees. We also don't know the inheritance they received beyond the sale of Empire but quite probably there was more. By the 80's it gone?

Had BS not become highly successful and represented yet another gravy train, I doubt these cousins would've given him the time of day. JMO

Good for you for over coming adversity. I know it's not an easy road for everyone, I've been there too.

We really don't know much of what their circumstances were however or what opportunities they had, aside from the financial dealings being reported. And everyone adapts differently and is effected differently, by certain adversities they face, in any phase of life. I'm glad you were able to persevere, however.

The older child had his parents, and presumably their love and nurturance, longer than the others. That could be what made the difference as far as tackling life head on. Children Need someone to champion them when they are young. My heart goes out to the children they were, even if I don't agree with their lawsuit.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

It’s very hard to fathom what would’ve happened if things turned out differently. You know....the woulda’, shoulda’, coulda’s and all that jazz.