Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #4

[JDG]

Could it be the second floor balcony? Maybe its a 2 story balcony as it shows as two dark dots on the main floor.

I recall reading that they used the pool area for large dinners/to host parties but from the photos, I do not recall an area that looked suitable.

Maybe they were upstairs on the second floor? Railing/balcony? I thought they were referring to the handrails leading down into the pool.

From the post above, I guess not. Back to the pool area.

Jasper52, it gets stranger by the second. Thanks for the link.

 

[dotr]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5153507/bobby-sherman-wife-honey-dead-toronto-canada-side-by-side/
REALTOR.COM

An estate agent's brochure for the house showed a luxurious outdoor pool

REALTOR.COM

The indoor swimming pool, where according to reports the couple's bodies were found

 

[Jackeee]

More speculation? (there would be no seated position this way)


Source: Who Killed Barry And Honey Sherman?

Change the word ‘balcony’ to ‘railing’ and I think we will be back to the scenario I have pictured and I think many others too, since the beginning. See dotr’s photos of the pools. I believe it may have just been incorrect wording. Thank you for posting those photos dotr.

 

[otto]

I have a personal reason to believe the Sherman case is a double-homicide, but its a notion that few if any WS members would find convincing. So I’d like to suggest the following hypothetical situation:


Let’s suppose that a couple are strangled by a man who accidentally leaves his public library card at the murder scene. Let’s further suppose that police inquiries establish that the library card isn’t recognized by family, friends, or staff. Then the police find the name on the card happens to match that of a local resident with a shady past. This is all just in theory now.


In that theoretical case, should the police inform the public that they have a suspect/POI? What if the local resident denies any involvement, and there is no evidence to implicate him other than the library card itself?

I’d like to think police would alert the public to these circumstances, even if there is insufficient evidence to convict the man. But I doubt our legal system would permit that, so I’d expect the police will say nothing until they discover sufficient proof of the man’s guilt.


Thats what I think, but I’m not a lawyer (thank God!) Anyone care to venture an opinion?

If we ignore the following police statement:

"Toronto homicide Det. Brandon Price told reporters outside the couple's home on Friday that police "cannot say 100 per cent with certainty" whether or not foul play was involved. Police have said there were no signs of forced entry into the home, and that police were not searching for any outstanding suspects."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/shermans-remembered-1.4455238​

... then we can start imagining scenarios about who might be suspects.

Is there any reason why we should ignore police statements?

 

[SybilMoss]

Is there any reason why we should ignore police statements?

For Toronto locals, TPS has made a number of mis-steps/mis-statements about missing and murdered people in the past few months (Tess Richey especially - her disappearance was ignored by police, and her *mother* discovered her body steps from where she had last been seen, the police said it was not a suspicious death, then they said it was murder a day or two later. Meanwhile, CCTV was not collected, the crime scene was not secured, witnesses not located etc)

In addition, Honey and Barry's death has been very politicised to compensate for TPS's initial, leaky investigation. So nope, I can't think of a reason TO trust the police statement.

 

[JDG]

Change the word ‘balcony’ to ‘railing’ and I think we will be back to the scenario I have pictured and I think many others too, since the beginning. See dotr’s photos of the pools. I believe it may have just been incorrect wording. Thank you for posting those photos dotr.

Yep, I agree its just the wording but then when asked about a balcony, I was surprised to find it on the second floor!

Yes, I have seen the photos. In fact, when it was posted in Toronto Life on the Thursday I had been enjoying perusing the article.
It really creeped me out when I got up the next day and they were on the news talking about having just found them dead. It was kind of unnerving.

Thanks for the photos dotr

 

[otto]

I understand the confusion. In a murder-suicide case, what is rare is to have the two deceased parties die of ligature neck compression. Other methods/scenarios were seen as much more common, according to statistics Canada.

Singularly, suicide by hanging is very common, yes.

As always, anything is possible.

ETA: After pondering your thought further, if a murder-suicide occurred as 1 homicide by strangulation, and 1 suicide by hanging, the cause of death classifications would be 1 neck compression (strangulation) and 1 ligature hanging (or maybe ligature neck compression).

Thanks

We know that the cause of death is 'ligature neck compression'. Whether I put a belt around someone's neck and cause neck compression, or around my own neck and cause neck compression, the result is the same: death by ligature neck compression.

From stats Canada websites and tables, it looks like murder-suicide by strangulation is not rare with seniors, and argument appears to be a major cause of the murder-suicide.

From the attached table of senior murder-suicide rates, we see that senior to senior murders-suicide are rare in Canada, but do happen. The first illustration represents the cause of death, and strangulation does not stand out as rare.

One sixth is strangulation or inability to breath - a total of four victims over a period of ten years, one sixth is beating, one sixth is poison, and three sixths is shooting - total of twelve victims over ten years.

https://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2013001/article/11805/tbl/tbl02-8-eng.htm

The most common motive in senior murder-suicide is argument/frustration/anger/despair.
Did they visit the architect prior to their deaths? Was the wife's throat cancer a concern?

References for Tables:

https://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2013001/article/11805/11805-2-eng.htm#a2
https://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2013001/article/11805/tbl/tbl02-9-eng.htm

 

[otto]

I can't see where there could be a balcony overlooking the pool, maybe someone else can.

Floor plans: http://media.houssmax.ca/201711/29/5a1f32afd3797.pdf

There is no balcony.
The pool is built under the tennis courts.

 

[Grey-St]

Yep, I agree its just the wording but then when asked about a balcony, I was surprised to find it on the second floor!

Yes, I have seen the photos. In fact, when it was posted in Toronto Life on the Thursday I had been enjoying perusing the article. It really creeped me out when I got up the next day and they were on the news talking about having just found them dead. It was kind of unnerving.

Thanks for the photos dotr

Rbbm. Jeeze, that would have been very eerie to experience.

 

[zencompass]

Thanks

We know that the cause of death is 'ligature neck compression'. Whether I put a belt around someone's neck and cause neck compression, or around my own neck and cause neck compression, the result is the same: death by ligature neck compression.

From stats Canada websites and tables, it looks like murder-suicide by strangulation is not rare with seniors, and argument appears to be a major cause of the murder-suicide.

From the attached table of senior murder-suicide rates, we see that senior to senior murders-suicide are rare in Canada, but do happen. The first illustration represents the cause of death, and strangulation does not stand out as rare.

One sixth is strangulation or inability to breath - a total of four victims over a period of ten years, one sixth is beating, one sixth is poison, and three sixths is shooting - total of twelve victims over ten years.

https://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2013001/article/11805/tbl/tbl02-8-eng.htm

The most common motive in senior murder-suicide is argument/frustration/anger/despair.
Did they visit the architect prior to their deaths? Was the wife's throat cancer a concern?

References for Tables:

https://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2013001/article/11805/11805-2-eng.htm#a2
https://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2013001/article/11805/tbl/tbl02-9-eng.htm

Otto, thank you so much for all of this research.

Greatly appreciated!

 

[Hazel]

Jan 3, 2018 4:32pm

Apotex has run into lots of regulatory issues with the FDA over the years, but now it is regulators in the U.K. that are expressing concern. And it comes at an uncertain time for Canada’s largest drugmaker after founder and chairman Barry Sherman and his wife, Honey, were found strangled to death in their Toronto home last month.

The Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) has pulled the manufacturing certificate for an Apotex solid-dose plant in Bangalore, India, saying investigators found a risk for cross-contamination during a November inspection.

Full article: https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufa...n-comes-midst-probe-into-death-apotex-founder


The Globe and Mail (subscribers only) https://www.theglobeandmail.com/rep...certificate-for-indian-plant/article37529341/

 

[JDG]

There is no balcony.
The pool is built under the tennis courts.

Otto, There is a balcony on the second floor but it doesn't overlook the indoor pool. Perhaps the garden? or the main floor lobby?

 

[zencompass]

From article (below):

"A lawyer for the family of Barry and Honey Sherman, who were found hanged in their Toronto home last month, says a police statement that there were "no signs of forced entry" invited the public to wrongly conclude it had been a murder-suicide."

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...s-misled-by-police-statement/article37536152/

 

[zencompass]

From same article (January 8, 2018):
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...s-misled-by-police-statement/article37536152/

"Mr. Greenspan has been assisting the family, which has hired former homicide investigators Tom Klatt and Michael Davis to conduct a separate investigation. He said he has no new information from the police. "We've not engaged in discussions about the ongoing investigation."

"He declined to say whether evidence had been found in an autopsy conducted by a pathologist hired by the family that supported the family's view that a double-homicide had taken place."

 

[Hazel]

Old news from 2013 posting the link here, because I can no longer find some news articles I found last month, which is frustrating.
There is 1 video in particular, that I've been looking for for days to no avail. It was an interview to a friend of BS, around 70 years old. I'm not sure if it was outside the Sherman's house, but I recall it was outdoors (snow), where he talked about donations of medicine to poor countries, that BS said were still good although expired, but he could no longer sell on the shelfs. Mention of drugs still good 2 years after expiry date, etc. I thought I would be able to find the article again, so I didn't bookmark it at the time. I wanted to show it to my husband because he throws away medicine when it's close to it's expiration date.
Also, I thought the face/reaction of the news anchor was priceless, when the news segment of the interview ended, and went back to the newsroom. :cow: JMO MOO JMOO

The federal department asked Ottawa-based Risk Sciences International (RSI) to examine its actions following the recall of the oral contraceptive by its manufacturer, generic drug maker Apotex Inc.

Apotex pulled Alysena 28 from the market when it was discovered one lot contained too little active drug and too much placebo, leaving women who took it vulnerable to becoming pregnant. The lot contained about 50,000 faulty packets, which were sold across Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/pill-recall-prompts-health-canada-to-pledge-faster-notice-1.2074378

 

[dotr]

Wondering if Honey's face was covered in some fashion when her body was found.

 

[tarabull]

Can't imagine !!!

Law firm says 40 women pregnant in wake of birth control pill recall

TORONTO – A law firm in Thunder Bay, Ontario that launched an $800-million class action lawsuit against the company that recalled a birth control pill in Canada is claiming that 40 women are now pregnant.

In the wake of Apotex’s recall of birth control pill Alysena in April, lawyers at Watkins Law Professional Corporation says that 40 women are pregnant while other women have stepped forward to join the class action.

Read more: https://globalnews.ca/news/568691/l...regnant-in-wake-of-birth-control-pill-recall/

 

[debanng]

it makes sense that honey was killed in the garage and then barry came home and discovered the scene and was also killed in a different location.

 

[dotr]

Old news from 2013 posting the link here, because I can no longer find some news articles I found last month, which is frustrating.
There is 1 video in particular, that I've been looking for for days to no avail. It was an interview to a friend of BS, around 70 years old. I'm not sure if it was outside the Sherman's house, but I recall it was outdoors (snow), where he talked about donations of medicine to poor countries, that BS said were still good although expired, but he could no longer sell on the shelfs. Mention of drugs still good 2 years after expiry date, etc. I thought I would be able to find the article again, so I didn't bookmark it at the time. I wanted to show it to my husband because he throws away medicine when it's close to it's expiration date.
Also, I thought the face/reaction of the news anchor was priceless, when the news segment of the interview ended, and went back to the newsroom.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/pill-recall-prompts-health-canada-to-pledge-faster-notice-1.2074378

Wow, that is actually really disturbing-
Wondering what the effects would be on a pregnancy if the unknowing woman continued to take the pill.
Even at the lower dose, would that cause birth defects for those women who went on to give birth?
speculation, imo.

 

[JDG]

Old news from 2013 posting the link here, because I can no longer find some news articles I found last month, which is frustrating.
There is 1 video in particular, that I've been looking for for days to no avail. It was an interview to a friend of BS, around 70 years old. I'm not sure if it was outside the Sherman's house, but I recall it was outdoors (snow), where he talked about donations of medicine to poor countries, that BS said were still good although expired, but he could no longer sell on the shelfs. Mention of drugs still good 2 years after expiry date, etc. I thought I would be able to find the article again, so I didn't bookmark it at the time. I wanted to show it to my husband because he throws away medicine when it's close to it's expiration date.
Also, I thought the face/reaction of the news anchor was priceless, when the news segment of the interview ended, and went back to the newsroom.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/pill-recall-prompts-health-canada-to-pledge-faster-notice-1.2074378

Are you saying that he was donating expired drugs? Yet another window into who BS truly was.IMO Guess he'd get a tax receipt for donating expired goods. Just a different way of making money from them, IMO