Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #4

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Yep, I agree its just the wording but then when asked about a balcony, I was surprised to find it on the second floor! :confused:

Yes, I have seen the photos. In fact, when it was posted in Toronto Life on the Thursday I had been enjoying perusing the article.
It really creeped me out when I got up the next day and they were on the news talking about having just found them dead. It was kind of unnerving.

Thanks for the photos dotr

I think it’s boils down to shoddy reporting. JMO
 
it makes sense that honey was killed in the garage and then barry came home and discovered the scene and was also killed in a different location.

Why? Just curious as to where this is coming from. Tia
 
Can't imagine !!!

Law firm says 40 women pregnant in wake of birth control pill recall

TORONTO – A law firm in Thunder Bay, Ontario that launched an $800-million class action lawsuit against the company that recalled a birth control pill in Canada is claiming that 40 women are now pregnant.

In the wake of Apotex’s recall of birth control pill Alysena in April, lawyers at Watkins Law Professional Corporation says that 40 women are pregnant while other women have stepped forward to join the class action.

Read more: https://globalnews.ca/news/568691/l...regnant-in-wake-of-birth-control-pill-recall/
I could NOT imagine, either! Such a negligent violation of reproductive rights. You take responsible measures to protect yourself, but then, nope...
 
...I can no longer find some news articles I found last month, which is frustrating.

I hate when that happens! I've looked in vain for some early articles about this case that described aspects which weren’t in any of the later articles. Makes me wonder whether they were pulled because of inaccuracies, or because TPS might not want certain info to be made public.

I recall one article that said investigators may have found tape residue on the legs of Honey Sherman. But there’s been no mention of that possible finding since then. The way it was stated implied that no corresponding piece of used tape was found when the house was searched. Maybe subsequent testing determined that the residue wasn’t from tape?

Another article said that rope was used to fasten both belt ligatures to the pool railing. But I’ve seen no confirmation of the rope in any other articles. Was it, like the balcony railing mentioned above, just a misunderstanding? In an earlier thread, one of you pointed out that it would’ve been difficult to tie leather belts to the railing and still have enough left over to form a ligature, so rope would certainly have made it easier.

ETA: Unfortunately, I didn't print out these two articles and haven't been able to locate them later on, so I can't post a link to either of them.
 
On the "no forced entry" statement from TPS, from https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...s-misled-by-police-statement/article37536152/ posted earlier:

"You have to know a lot more before that becomes meaningful and before that becomes public. Because the public may draw from that an inference that is just wrong and misleading."

"Once it is established that there is no forced entry, the investigators will either confirm or eliminate the possibility that someone entered by some other surreptitious means and I expect they have been reviewing any persons with access by key, alarm code, hidden keys or other sophisticated entry methods (depending on what physical security safeguards are in place),"

"no signs of forced entry" is information of little value. "It means nothing," he said. "Any professional can pick a lock."
 
On the "no forced entry" statement from TPS, from https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...s-misled-by-police-statement/article37536152/ posted earlier:

"You have to know a lot more before that becomes meaningful and before that becomes public. Because the public may draw from that an inference that is just wrong and misleading."

"Once it is established that there is no forced entry, the investigators will either confirm or eliminate the possibility that someone entered by some other surreptitious means and I expect they have been reviewing any persons with access by key, alarm code, hidden keys or other sophisticated entry methods (depending on what physical security safeguards are in place),"

"no signs of forced entry" is information of little value. "It means nothing," he said. "Any professional can pick a lock."

It was very evident in this case that Toronto Police had major organization communication challenges in how information is distributed to the media. The initial comments of Mark Pugash, their official spokesperson, can hardly be found. Instead the media ran with unnamed "police sources" who for all we know was a desk clerk overhearing speculation in the coffee room at Division 33. Much of the early reportings have now been scrubbed which suggests to me it wasn't reliable information.

".....Police services spokesman Mark Pugash would not confirm details of the case, only stating the homicide squad is in overall charge of the investigation because it has better resources than the local police station, 33 Division.

"Homicide is working with 33 Division on this until we get the post mortem. When we get the post-mortem result, that should give us a good indication of where the investigation goes from there," he told The Globe."
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...n-and-wife-as-murder-suicide/article37357096/
 
On the "no forced entry" statement from TPS, from https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...s-misled-by-police-statement/article37536152/ posted earlier:

"no signs of forced entry" is information of little value. "It means nothing," he said. "Any professional can pick a lock."


And plenty of non-professionals.

There are many ways a person could have gained entry - picked a lock, garage door (we had a news segment here regarding how to make your garage door secure not long ago, you may think yours is secure but it may not be!) a window that was purposely left unlocked, etc.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 
And plenty of non-professionals.

There are many ways a person could have gained entry - picked a lock, garage door (we had a news segment here regarding how to make your garage door secure not long ago, you may think yours is secure but it may not be!) a window that was purposely left unlocked, etc.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Agreed. The possibilities are endless, really. I mean, someone could have literally rang the doorbell and then pushed their way inside. Or even genuinely let in as someone they knew.
 
So they still dont have the postmortem?
 
Hello Grey St,

I agree about endless possibilities of someone entering a house.

A few weeks ago, our doorbell rang. It was at night and I thought my husband had locked himself out.

I opened the door and there was a man with one of those orange vests on, holding a clipboard.

I was holding my little dog who was barking and the man said "can you put your dog away".

I shut the door and locked it, then put the chain on it.

I need to learn to stop trusting and opening the door, with the dog or without.

The next day I asked my neighbours who was going around with a clipboard and they said they were all home all night and no one came to their door.

Finally I realized how foolish I was to open the door. I won't do it again.

So, I definitely agree that the possibilities are endless.
 
I've given up on this case. It's quite apparent that the family doesn't want to believe that suicide was involved and that they have made it known that they will challenge whatever LE finds. With the threat of litigation, cops have gone silent and the only info that we will get is going to come from the family's lawyer. IMO the only ones that have all the facts are LE. They have no reason to lie or cover this up. I'm not sure if there are insurance policies that don't include suicide/murder, or if they are simply trying to protect their parents legacy, but bullying the police in to saying what you want them to say is no way to conduct an investigation. Just another example of how people with money are able to do things that you and I can't. If it was you or I, the investigation would have been wrapped up in a couple of days. Case closed. Now LE is wasting taxpayer dollars doing an in depth investigation that will likely yield the same results as what they originally would have concluded.
 
The only result which the police released after the post mortem examinations was the cause of death.

That's right, nothing beyond has been released at this point in time.

".....The pathological term means either death from hanging or strangulation with a ligature. Former homicide investigators told the Star on Monday that marks on the neck can allow pathologists to make the distinction between manual strangulation and the use of a cord of some kind, like a rope.

“These causes of death can be seen in homicides and suicides and rarely accidents,” said Christopher Milroy, director of forensic pathology at the Ottawa Hospital, who is not involved in the Sherman investigation.

“Hanging is normally a suicide. Ligature strangulation is most commonly seen in homicides, but may be seen in other manners of death,” he said....

........The specialized team now conducting the probe is amassing the critical bits of information gathered from both the crime scene and the autopsy. In all suspicious death autopsies, investigators seek other clues that may be on the body, including signs of struggle. That could include skin cells of another person under the nails, scratches, unusual bruising — in this case, anything over and above the ligature neck compression.

Stomach contents, too, may provide clues in suspicious death cases, including insight into whether any drugs had been ingested, said Mark Mendelson, a former Toronto police homicide investigator who is now a security consultant.

Investigators are also awaiting the results of toxicological reports, including blood and urine samples, which would provide more information including about drugs, Mendelson said. These test results can take weeks or more, he said......"

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...be-what-happened-inside-50-old-colony-rd.html
 
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...s-misled-by-police-statement/article37536152/

From above article:

"Mr. Greenspan has been assisting the family, which has hired former homicide investigators Tom Klatt and Michael Davis to conduct a separate investigation. He said he has no new information from the police. "We've not engaged in discussions about the ongoing investigation." He also said he is not prepared to comment on the police investigation or on the family's separate investigation at this time. He declined to say whether evidence had been found in an autopsy conducted by a pathologist hired by the family that supported the family's view that a double-homicide had taken place."
 
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...s-misled-by-police-statement/article37536152/
Mr. Greenspan said the police at the time of the initial statement knew nothing about the Shermans' security concerns or their habits, such as whether they opened the door when people knock.
Rod Buckingham, a former cold-case detective with the Regina police, said that "no forced entry" means a forensic investigation found no indication of anything like a door being broken down or forced open, locks tampered with, windows or skylights pried open or venting removed.

"Once it is established that there is no forced entry, the investigators will either confirm or eliminate the possibility that someone entered by some other surreptitious means and I expect they have been reviewing any persons with access by key, alarm code, hidden keys or other sophisticated entry methods (depending on what physical security safeguards are in place)
"
It means nothing," he said. "Any professional can pick a lock."

For example, in today's news..
https://www.cp24.com/news/family-heirlooms-stolen-during-forest-hill-break-ins-1.3751657
Unique jewelry and family heirlooms were stolen during a series of daytime break-ins at homes in Forest Hill, Toronto police say.

The break-ins occurred at houses in the area of Bathurst Street and Eglinton Avenue between Dec. 28, 2017 and Jan. 3, 2018.

Each break-in occurred in the afternoon or early evening hours, police say, and several pieces of unique jewelry and family heirlooms were taken
.
rbbm.
 
I've given up on this case. It's quite apparent that the family doesn't want to believe that suicide was involved and that they have made it known that they will challenge whatever LE finds. With the threat of litigation, cops have gone silent and the only info that we will get is going to come from the family's lawyer. IMO the only ones that have all the facts are LE. They have no reason to lie or cover this up. I'm not sure if there are insurance policies that don't include suicide/murder, or if they are simply trying to protect their parents legacy, but bullying the police in to saying what you want them to say is no way to conduct an investigation. Just another example of how people with money are able to do things that you and I can't. If it was you or I, the investigation would have been wrapped up in a couple of days. Case closed. Now LE is wasting taxpayer dollars doing an in depth investigation that will likely yield the same results as what they originally would have concluded.

I still think LE has been told to shut it down, murder is out of their jurisdiction (IE don't investigate).

Nothing adds up here.
 
I've given up on this case. It's quite apparent that the family doesn't want to believe that suicide was involved and that they have made it known that they will challenge whatever LE finds. With the threat of litigation, cops have gone silent and the only info that we will get is going to come from the family's lawyer. IMO the only ones that have all the facts are LE. They have no reason to lie or cover this up. I'm not sure if there are insurance policies that don't include suicide/murder, or if they are simply trying to protect their parents legacy, but bullying the police in to saying what you want them to say is no way to conduct an investigation. Just another example of how people with money are able to do things that you and I can't. If it was you or I, the investigation would have been wrapped up in a couple of days. Case closed. Now LE is wasting taxpayer dollars doing an in depth investigation that will likely yield the same results as what they originally would have concluded.

The comments by unnamed "police sources" about murder-suicide was at best a "first glance" opinion. I don't blame the family for being upset.

ETA: Hopefully the first responders were wise enough to consider the home a possible crime scene and not tromp all over the place, possibly destroying valuable evidence.
 
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...s-misled-by-police-statement/article37536152/

From above article:

"Mr. Greenspan has been assisting the family, which has hired former homicide investigators Tom Klatt and Michael Davis to conduct a separate investigation. He said he has no new information from the police. "We've not engaged in discussions about the ongoing investigation." He also said he is not prepared to comment on the police investigation or on the family's separate investigation at this time. He declined to say whether evidence had been found in an autopsy conducted by a pathologist hired by the family that supported the family's view that a double-homicide had taken place."

I hope the hired investigators are not influenced to agree with the outcome their employers want just to get paid.
 
I'm reminded of hasty assumptions by first responders in what later was found to be a double homicide, in Calgary from 2014, still unsolved.

The couple was found in bed and accidental carbon monoxide poisoning was initially suspected. Between paramedics, the fire department, gas company employees and police officers, it's easy to imagine the flurry of emergency responders who arrived at the scene. It was only later that the autopsy determined both deaths were a homicide. It's been suggested valuable evidence may have been destroyed because the crime scene was not immediately secured.

Imagine how differently a crime scene would be approached if responders immediately recognized it was the scene of a homicide, as opposed to an assumed accident or suicide. Might a murderer choose to stage deaths for that very reason?

http://www.calgaryherald.com/health...rdered+lake+bonavista+home/9520867/story.html
 
Hello Grey St,

I agree about endless possibilities of someone entering a house.

A few weeks ago, our doorbell rang. It was at night and I thought my husband had locked himself out.

I opened the door and there was a man with one of those orange vests on, holding a clipboard.

I was holding my little dog who was barking and the man said "can you put your dog away".

I shut the door and locked it, then put the chain on it.

I need to learn to stop trusting and opening the door, with the dog or without.

The next day I asked my neighbours who was going around with a clipboard and they said they were all home all night and no one came to their door.

Finally I realized how foolish I was to open the door. I won't do it again.

So, I definitely agree that the possibilities are endless.
Rbbm. Good for you! Sounds like you put HIM away instead.
 
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