Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #4

[Jackeee]

Here's the CBC video on this...

https://youtu.be/8RZTgzqfQMY

I’m wondering how a hired hit would work. Only from what I’ve seen on tv etc, I would think that a hitman would be given some money up front and the rest when the job was done. I’m sure whoever hired the hit would want proof.
If the Sherman’s were killed on the 13th but not found until the 15th, I can’t see a hitman wanting to stick around until news of the deaths broke. Would the killers send photos as proof via cellphone and then ditch the phone?

 

[Veeduck]

Huh? They couldn't have met with the Architect if they were dead before their supposed meeting. I'm presuming the murders likely happened after the meeting with the Architect. But when was the meeting do you have a link to when and where the meeting was or was to be?

I'm guessing here, but I think Errrr was referring to the Architect in the Matrix movies.

 

[debanng]

i have a feeling that barry had to watch the death of his wife. That would be the ultimate revenge. Why the pool room? most likely because easy access to the railing. But why the hanging?...maybe a sign of the supposed mortal sin in the murderers mind? No there is more to it cause they didnt need to be hanged.

 

[Tortoise]

I’m wondering how a hired hit would work. Only from what I’ve seen on tv etc, I would think that a hitman would be given some money up front and the rest when the job was done. I’m sure whoever hired the hit would want proof.
If the Sherman’s were killed on the 13th but not found until the 15th, I can’t see a hitman wanting to stick around until news of the deaths broke. Would the killers send photos as proof via cellphone and then ditch the phone?

I think they would be able to track unexpected cellphone numbers/transmissions in the vicinity of the residence. Particularly one that suddenly goes off grid. But I'm no expert.

 

[Peace777]

It feels like the family is trying to get their story out first in case the police conclude otherwise.

The family can't change the facts/evidence to make it look like a double murder tho. The second ME has found evidence that they (2) were murdered it says. IF he's misconstruing his findings to fit what the family want then his job/practice is on the line. JMO

 

[Hazel]

Grey -St is correct, these are experienced investigators, which makes this public statement all the more troubling. If LE thinks this is a double murder, this disclosure could jeopardize their search for/surveillance of the possible suspects. Very troubling that this could happen.
I know my side of the fence doesn't have many folks on it with me, but I can't help but wonder if this story wasn't released to get the familiy's position out there because they may know that based on the actual evidence that LE has gathered, LE is Reaching the conclusion that this was a m/s. Imo

That is exactly what I was thinking.
LE has a way of doing things. They could have already concluded it's double murder, but don't want that released for a reason, like we've seen it done in other cases.

I have no problem with the family having hired private investigators and the parallel investigation. They could inform the family of their findings, but what I find troubling is making all the results of the second autopsy public, when LE had apparently decided not to do so. JMO MOO

I'm still on the fence, it could be either murder suicide or double murder, but IF it is double murder and LE wants the perp(s) to relax and think they got away with it, then releasing the results could alert the perp(s) and they could go into hiding or leave the country (if they haven't done so already). MOO JMHO

It could also turn out that the private investigators got LE's approval for making the autopsy results public. For all we know they could be working together, and it could be a way of letting the perp(s) know they are on their tails, without making it come from an "official" source. JMO MOO

:fence:​

 

[Peace777]

obviously Somewhere Barry screwed someone over enough so that they sought revenge. Who could this be?
i have people that have screwed me over for millions. I have nothing. I never once thought of killing someone. It would have to be someone with the financial means to hire hit men. Since Barry travelled in that type of circle it could be any of his contacts that felt jilted. But most likely someone that lost a lot of money because of him or was aboit to lose a lot of money.

I said that awhile back in a post to follow the money trail. (Plenty of money trails in this case) so it may take awhile.... JMO

 

[Peace777]

I'm guessing here, but I think Errrr was referring to the Architect in the Matrix movies.

Hmmm I'm not up on Matrix movies lol

 

[debanng]

you are right. money is the root of all evil.

 

[Veeduck]

i have a feeling that barry had to watch the death of his wife. That would be the ultimate revenge. Why the pool room? most likely because easy access to the railing. But why the hanging?...maybe a sign of the supposed mortal sin in the murderers mind? No there is more to it cause they didnt need to be hanged.

TPS apparently had reason to think that Honey's death preceded Barry's. There is so much about the death scene that was seemingly unnecessary if the intent was simply to murder the couple. I still think the killer(s) left their victims in the pool room to delay discovery, but why leave them in a sitting position? I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the killer(s) were female, and may have lacked the upper body strength to lift their victims higher for a 'full' hanging.

 

[Tortoise]

TPS apparently had reason to think that Honey's death preceded Barry's. There is so much about the death scene that was seemingly unnecessary if the intent was simply to murder the couple. I still think the killer(s) left their victims in the pool room to delay discovery, but why leave them in a sitting position? I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the killer(s) were female, and may have lacked the upper body strength to lift their victims higher for a 'full' hanging.

And a seated person can't kick you.

 

[tarabull]

Did you hear recently in the news of the Toronto landscaper who turned out to be a serial killer? Hmmm

He hides bodies FWIW.

 

[debanng]

very rare i would assume to find a female killer doing that. It was def more than 1 person.

 

[Hazel]

Sources with intimate knowledge of the Sherman family’s investigation have used words like “professional,” “contract killing,” and “staged homicide” to describe the scene.

This quote confuses me. Are they saying the private investigators believe the perp(s) staged the alleged double murders as homicide?

:dunno: If it was homicide, why would the murderer(s) "stage" the murders as homicide?

Btw, quote is from the original article, by Mr. Donovan, dated Fri., Jan. 19, 2018
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...-honey-sherman-were-murdered-sources-say.html

 

[debanng]

thats different he was murdering homosexuals.

 

[debanng]

it wasnt staged as a suicide far from it. eg. contracter says i wanna see them hang for what they done. end of story the rest was just to get them to that point.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Most of these articles below have been posted here before, thank you for the links. *If* this is a double-murder, IMO it's a very personal one. I think the killer (s) would need to be familiar with the home and feel comfortable enough to take the time to 'pose' the deceased and full of enough hatred to kill these elderly victims in such a horrific way.

From a 2008 Toronto Life article about BS: https://torontolife.com/from-the-archives/barry-sherman-bitter-pill-from-the-archives/

BBM. This quote is BS cousin Kerry Winter speaking of BS and the Winter vs. BS lawsuit:

...As he (Kerry Winter) spoke to me, his face reddened and his voice rose. “If Barry had his way, I’d be eating cold french fries out of a Dumpster at KFC. Well, Barry, that’s just not going to happen.” He rapped his knuckles on the table and leaned in close. He vowed he’d be Sherman’s “nemesis,” saying that for him this was “a lifelong mission.” He expressed fear for his personal safety and, pointing a finger in my face, warned: “By the way, sweetie, you’re next.” By this time, he was shouting. He imagines Sherman at the courtroom door, begging to settle. “I’ll go to trial, sweetie,” he growled. “I’m not going away.” Then he put on his coat and walked out without another word.

BBM. From the same article:

In 1995, Barry sent Dana (Winter) to a remote fishing village in B.C. to get clean. Dana decided to settle in B.C., married a woman named Julia Zwicker, fathered two children and slipped back into drugs. He would later be charged with conspiracy in the murder of a fellow drug dealer. From a holding tank in Vancouver, he called Barry to arrange bail. While he was out, Dana, then 33 years old, died of a heroin overdose. At the time of Dana’s death, Kerry was in the final chapter of his marriage to Elee Scarlett, a lawyer. The living allowance that Barry gave Kerry would eventually reach $20,000 a month.

BBM. From CanLII https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/d...dGVyLCBiYXJyeSBzaGVybWFuAAAAAAE&resultIndex=2

The option agreement was limited, qualified, contingent and conditional. The claimed interest in Apotex was wishful thinking, and beyond fanciful. Nothing can now change these findings of fact.
Costs

[54] The defendants are presumptively entitled to costs. If the parties are unable to agree upon the issue of costs, the defendants are to provide submissions consisting of no more than two typed double-spaced pages along with a bill of costs, any offers, and appropriate case law to my attention to the Judges’ Administration office, Room 170, 361 University Avenue, on or before September 29, 2017. The plaintiffs are to provide their submissions subject to the same directions on or before October 16, 2017. There are to be no reply submissions.

BBM. From December 21, 2017 The Daily Mail (I think the DM should be taken with a few grains of salt, but FWIW...) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...u-attends-murdered-billionaires-memorial.html

A Superior Court judge dismissed the $1billion lawsuit in September and they lodged an appeal just last month.

Kerry Winter has offered his condolences to the Sherman family. His attorney Teplitsky but confirmed that there were no plans to drop the appeal.

He added that his client - who has spoken in the past of wanting 'vengeance' and to make Sherman 'accountable' for the past - has not been questioned by police.

From PubMed.Gov regarding unusual 'staging' or 'posing' of the victims. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15568704

The act of leaving a victim's body in an unusual position is a conscious criminal action by an offender to thwart an investigation, shock the finder and investigators of the crime scene, or give perverted pleasure to the killer.

Lastly, when a body is left in an unusual position, binding is more likely, as well as the use of more "hands on" means of killing the victim, such as stabbing or cutting weapons, bludgeons, ligatures, or hands and feet.

On a more personal note, my late mother had Parkinson's with dementia and one day flushed her partial dental plate down the toilet. When I brought her to the dentist he said oh, by the way, there's a filter system in the sewer and sewer workers will save things such as false teeth or partials if the owners call them to assist.(ick!) He mentioned that as trivia, we weren't about to go looking for them, but I was surprised they could find something that small.

I looked for a reference about the Toronto sewer system, but only found my way back to the Daily Mail: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-toilet-costing-millions-year-clean-up.html

In the article above, they found mobile phones and things as small as hair elastics.

 

[debanng]

i would not retrieve my dentures out of sewer if i had any yuck...but good thinking...if anything was flushed down toilet.

 

[Smasherella]

I remember reading about a personal trainer who showed up after police were already on scene. From what I recall, he attempted to go beyond the police tape, explaining that he had a work out session scheduled with Honey. I’ve always remembered that, and how it seems like an odd reaction for someone arriving somewhere familiar only for it to be an active police scene. Wouldn’t your first reaction be “oh my god what is going on? Is Honey ok?”

 

[JDG]

thats different he was murdering homosexuals.

See the thread about Andrew Kinsman. Its all on there. Wish I could link it for you.