Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #5

[ABro]

The leaks were said to come from the Sherman Team according to CB, the Team denies this. So, you can say they're lying, but I don't think they are.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

The Sherman team didn't deny it. Greenspan said he would get to the bottom of it.

Before printing information like this, the press would have to be absolutely sure of their source and the articles would be lawyered. (Please note this is different from being sure that the source's interpretation of events was correct)

They can't print lies about who the source is or they could easily be sued for defamation.

If the CBC and Kevin Donovan, one of the most respected investigative reporters in the country, say their source was the private investigators that's who their source was.

 

[Grey-St]

In fact they said it in one case where two parents were murdered and the police said to that community the same very thing...'not to worry ...........these victims were personally targeted' etc. leaving the community to believe it was someone known to the two parents who was another upper class family. This false impression allowed the murderer to go on and do other home invasions almost killing another woman before he was finally caught.

So when I see any police agency say this before they even know who the suspects may be nor have they even completed their investigation.........I have totally learned to dismiss it, and wait for the actual suspect/s to be arrested first.

rsbm. You're probably wise to do so. Here in Toronto, we had a similar thing just happen, where folks were going missing from the LGBTQ+ community, and LE stated there was no reason to believe it was the work of a serial killer. Sure enough here we are finally with an arrest, and he absolutely was a serial killer. I'm glad they community for the most part disregarded the statements of LE and remained vigilant in and around the LGBTQ+ area until an arrest was made.

That's a horrific story by the way.

 

[Hazel]

reposting -
Barry Sherman’s death is forcing the lobbying commissioner to make a tough decision

Nancy Bélanger tells court she’ll decide by Feb. 2 whether to keep investigating Sherman’s cash-for-access fundraiser featuring Justin Trudeau

The Lobbyists’ Code of Conduct prohibits registered lobbyists (which Sherman was at the time, as chair of his company) from placing elected officials in a potential conflict of interest that could make them feel “a sense of obligation.”

Sherman promptly fought back, filing a Federal Court challenge last May in hope of quashing the investigation before it even finished. The case marked a first: never had someone gone to court to try to derail an active probe by the lobbying commissioner.

The lobbying saga dates back to October 2016, when the advocacy group Democracy Watch filed a formal complaint against Sherman in connection with a cash-for-access fundraiser featuring Finance Minister Bill Morneau. Sherman was among those reportedly selling $500 tickets to the event, scheduled for Nov. 7, 2016.

he openly discussed the other fundraiser held at his house on August 26, 2015, which featured then-Liberal candidate Michael Levitt, now an MP, along with Trudeau. Sherman said his wife Honey organized the logistics, that the guest list was somewhere between 100 and 150 people and that he believed the proceeds were split between the Liberal Party of Canada and Levitt’s electoral district association. A ticket reportedly cost $1,500.

(respectfully snipped and bolded by me)

Full article: http://www.macleans.ca/politics/bar...bbying-commissioner-to-make-a-tough-decision/

 

[ldlager]

Not really, imo.

Regardless, if you believe they were hired to come to one conclusion, and one conclusion only, coming to a double-homicide conclusion would suffice. I don't know where the professional hit narrative is coming from, or what difference it makes. It's still double-homicide either way.[/QUOTE

thanks yes I wasn’t clear, I was referring to them being hired to conclude double homicide, not necessarily a professional hit. Like you, I’m not sure what difference that would make either way

 

[ldlager]

In your opinion is wasn't her point, in my opinion it was - and definitely preposterous.

Also, we have no idea where the leaks came from as no names have been given.
In my opinion it didn't come from the PI team. Not only is it basically the same info as leaked before + a few more details, but why would they have to leak info? Why not call LE out? According to Blatchford there are 7000 people that have this info, it's much more likely to be one of them IMO.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

v

Even if there are 7000 on the case (lol) none of them would have access to the second pathologist’s report. The leak came from gs, pi’s or the family.

I recall that the article says something about family saying the last cell phone contact was in the afternoon of wed. But previously it was reported in one of the articles that bs contacted a coworker at 8.30 pm. This leads me to believe the family was the source of the leak this time. Imo

 

[Grey-St]

v

Even if there are 7000 on the case (lol) none of them would have access to the second pathologist’s report. The leak came from gs, pi’s or the family.

I recall that the article says something about family saying the last cell phone contact was in the afternoon of wed. But previously it was reported in one of the articles that bs contacted a coworker at 8.30 pm. This leads me to believe the family was the source of the leak this time. Imo

FWIW, the exact quote from Donovan's article was "the last known cellphone communication (text or audio) from the Sherman couple was Wednesday during the day". The other article referenced BS writing an email to a co-worker around 8:30 PM. This could all still fit if he wrote an email from his computer or his phone, as it's suggested that they were killed late into the evening on Wednesday, or earlier in morning of Thursday.

In any sense, I don't know how relevant it is to know who the source is or where the "leak" came from. It's more the information that's important, imo.

 

[pamelado2]

v

Even if there are 7000 on the case (lol) none of them would have access to the second pathologist’s report. The leak came from gs, pi’s or the family.

I recall that the article says something about family saying the last cell phone contact was in the afternoon of wed. But previously it was reported in one of the articles that bs contacted a coworker at 8.30 pm. This leads me to believe the family was the source of the leak this time. Imo

My tongue was firmly in cheek, I don't think it was Team Sherman or whoever the team is for LE. My guess is it's some peripheral person who has 2nd or 3rd hand knowledge and wanted to seem important.
I don't for a minute think Team Sherman thought it would be a good idea to leak information. If they had said anything I would have thought they may have said they discovered evidence pointing to double murder, but no details.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[ABro]

My tongue was firmly in cheek, I don't think it was Team Sherman or whoever the team is for LE. My guess is it's some peripheral person who has 2nd or 3rd hand knowledge and wanted to seem important.
I don't for a minute think Team Sherman thought it would be a good idea to leak information. If they had said anything I would have thought they may have said they discovered evidence pointing to double murder, but no details.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Your guess is wrong. Reporters don't reprint second or third hand gossip because it's often wrong, and they risk looking like fools. They have to be ultra sure of their sources and/or have critical information confirmed by a second independent source.

They also don't lie about who their sources are because they can be sued for defamation.

It should also be noted that no one is disputing the information reported by journalists since the very early days. They are just taking issue with the interpretation of the facts.

 

[human]

v

Even if there are 7000 on the case (lol) none of them would have access to the second pathologist’s report. The leak came from gs, pi’s or the family.

I recall that the article says something about family saying the last cell phone contact was in the afternoon of wed. But previously it was reported in one of the articles that bs contacted a coworker at 8.30 pm. This leads me to believe the family was the source of the leak this time. Imo

I believe BS emailed a coworker at 8:30 pm.Different than a phone call

 

[north_west]

The rest of the Sherman family should be pretty concerned if their parents were murdered by contract.

Yes, they should be concerned, and they probably are. Until they have further information from the police, I'm sure they are taking precautions. In the end, they will probably know much more than us, so they can make much more informed decisions about the precautions that they should take.

What I was getting at is that IMO the statements to the Toronto Star were carefully stated to not alarm the public, but to nevertheless strongly offer the possibility/likelihood of double murder. They said enough to get the double murder narrative on the record and provided a rationale (the binding of hands). Then the professional/contract/hit theory is presented, but the evidence provided is lacking. Why reveal evidence of the first conclusion, but offer none for the second part of the theory?

 

[ABro]

Yes, they should be concerned, and they probably are. Until they have further information from the police, I'm sure they are taking precautions. In the end, they will probably know much more than us, so they can make much more informed decisions about the precautions that they should take.

What I was getting at is that IMO the statements to the Toronto Star were carefully stated to not alarm the public, but to nevertheless strongly offer the possibility/likelihood of double murder. They said enough to get the double murder narrative on the record and provided a rationale (the binding of hands). Then the professional/contract/hit theory is presented, but the evidence provided is lacking. Why reveal evidence of the first conclusion, but offer none for the second part of the theory?

Because there is no evidence of a contract hit? And because they really want murder/suicide off the table?

 

[pamelado2]

Your guess is wrong. Reporters don't reprint second or third hand gossip because it's often wrong, and they risk looking like fools. They have to be ultra sure of their sources and/or have critical information confirmed by a second independent source.

They also don't lie about who their sources are because they can be sued for defamation.

It should also be noted that no one is disputing the information reported by journalists since the very early days. They are just taking issue with the interpretation of the facts.

In your opinion, my guess is wrong. Since you have no idea who the "source" is for the information.

If you'll recall, there is very little new information. The rest from that article was leaked previously. Frank Mag printed it.

You want to put forth your theory? Have at it. It won't be anything more than an opinion as is everything that we talk about in this thread except for a handful of facts - such as cause of death.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[north_west]

rsbm. You're probably wise to do so. Here in Toronto, we had a similar thing just happen, where folks were going missing from the LGBTQ+ community, and LE stated there was no reason to believe it was the work of a serial killer. Sure enough here we are finally with an arrest, and he absolutely was a serial killer. I'm glad they community for the most part disregarded the statements of LE and remained vigilant in and around the LGBTQ+ area until an arrest was made.

That's a horrific story by the way.

Yes, IMO people like us here on websleuths will disregard even if LE says all is fine, because of our knowledge of other cases, but I think others are more trusting of what LE says. They expect that LE will inform them if there a risk to their safety.

After reading about evidence of an horrific double murder (without the hit/contract scenario), if you lived in that area of Toronto you might start demanding more information. For example, calling the police directly or contacting your local councillor. This might put the police under pressure to make a statement.

 

[tarabull]

Global News tonight is going to report on / interview a former North Korean female assassin FWIW

 

[north_west]

Because there is no evidence of a contract hit? And because they really want murder/suicide off the table?

And if LE determines murder/suicide they may not comment further. This theory could "stand" and LE wouldn't contradict it publicly.

 

[ldlager]

FWIW, the exact quote from Donovan's article was "the last known cellphone communication (text or audio) from the Sherman couple was Wednesday during the day". The other article referenced BS writing an email to a co-worker around 8:30 PM. This could all still fit if he wrote an email from his computer or his phone, as it's suggested that they were killed late into the evening on Wednesday, or earlier in morning of Thursday.

In any sense, I don't know how relevant it is to know who the source is or where the "leak" came from. It's more the information that's important, imo.

With respect Grey-St you omitted to include the important first part of the quote from the article, which states “...family sources say the last known cellphone communication....”. The reference to family sources indicates to me that imo the family provided the info (directly or indirectly), and furthermore that potentially the last communication with family was wed during the day. Just moo

 

[ldlager]

I believe BS emailed a coworker at 8:30 pm.Different than a phone call

nope. The quote refers to both text and audio. I will assume that text includes email as well as text. The point is there is differing info about the last time either of their phones were used to communicate. Imo

 

[ABro]

In your opinion, my guess is wrong. Since you have no idea who the "source" is for the information.

If you'll recall, there is very little new information. The rest from that article was leaked previously. Frank Mag printed it.

You want to put forth your theory? Have at it. It won't be anything more than an opinion as is everything that we talk about in this thread except for a handful of facts - such as cause of death.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I do have an idea who the source was because the CBC and Kevin Donovan provided information about the source. Both those reporters have long track records of breaking important stories and there are no examples of either of them lying about the identity of sources.

Your decision to disbelieve them appears to be based on the fact you don't like the facts they report. Because you don't want to believe the leak came from the Sherman team, you make unfounded accusations of lying against credible journalists.

The initial information about the bodies being suspended from the pool railing and hands secured by jackets came from another reporter with a history of getting scoops from his sources, Joe Warmington.

Sources say investigators found the Shermans, side by side, in their windowless pool room, each with a men’s leather belt wrapped around their necks and tied to the pool railing. Both had on jackets that were pulled “behind their backs” and rolled down over their arms.

It is believed the camera in the pool area had been disconnected.

This article was published on Dec. 19th. http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-mystery-shrouds-deaths-of-billionaire-couple

The Frank magazine article, which you find so much more authoritative than the CBC, the Star and the Sun, appeared on Dec. 22. http://frankmag.ca/2017/12/what-happened-to-the-shermans/

It repeated much of the information already reported by Warmington and also added some new details.

 

[ABro]

And if LE determines murder/suicide they may not comment further. This theory could "stand" and LE wouldn't contradict it publicly.

This is such a huge case that I don't think they could get away with no comment.

Also, if the evidence does indeed point toward murder suicide, the police have a big incentive to have it out there given all the criticism they have faced recently for both this case and others.

Ironically I think this leak from Team Sherman makes it more likely that we will learn details of what happened. The police are going to really want people to know if they did a good job.

And if they blew it, Brian Greenspan will tell the world.

 

[casesensitive]

The Sherman team didn't deny it. Greenspan said he would get to the bottom of it.

Before printing information like this, the press would have to be absolutely sure of their source and the articles would be lawyered. (Please note this is different from being sure that the source's interpretation of events was correct)

They can't print lies about who the source is or they could easily be sued for defamation.

If the CBC and Kevin Donovan, one of the most respected investigative reporters in the country, say their source was the private investigators that's who their source was.

Where does the CBC and the Toronto Star's Kevin Donovan state that their source was the private investigators? Donovan stated it was "sources with intimate knowledge of the Sherman family's investigation...".

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...-honey-sherman-were-murdered-sources-say.html


Quote Brian Greenspan:

“Again, I have no idea where they are getting their information,” he said. “If it’s from one of our people — and we will find out — that person will be dropped from our team.”

“I highly doubt it’s from anyone on our team,” Greenspan added.

http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-billionaire-shermans-slain-by-contract-killers


The source(s) may well be the private investigators, but it may also be that the family is the source. I'm glad Greenspan is looking into it.