Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #5

[CoolJ]

Anyone who feels slighted emotionally or anyone who is desperate for money/wealth and who is in his family sphere.
Don't family members or friends feel "affected"? Children have killed parents. Siblings have killed siblings. Domestic violence is common. All of these don't require the "victim" to be a personable person. It's everyday life.

I consider anything to do with his wealth to be business related. They want a piece of his wealth.... his holdings.

The point i am making is that the greatest possibility for motive has to do with his business dealings. It is obvious, just like this was obviously a double murder.

The man has said he is surprised nobody has killed him yet because of the numerous enemies he has made. Yes there are other possibilities. But they are unlikely IMO.

I am surprised and actually find it perplexing that a man with many enemies and of his wealth and power, didn't have secret service like level of security.

 

[FastLikeLight]

Seems that Shermans were a lonely pair. Nobody missed them whole Thursday...

 

[AllyJane]

Seems that Shermans were a lonely pair. Nobody missed them whole Thursday...

How do you know? You are assuming that people weren't phoning them all Thursday? Do you speak to your friends and family every day? HS was known to be very social.

 

[Snoopster]

I consider anything to do with his wealth to be business related. They want a piece of his wealth.... his holdings.

The point i am making is that the greatest possibility for motive has to do with his business dealings. It is obvious, just like this was obviously a double murder.

The man has said he is surprised nobody has killed him yet because of the numerous enemies he has made. Yes there are other possibilities. But they are unlikely IMO.

I am surprised and actually find it perplexing that a man with many enemies and of his wealth and power, didn't have secret service like level of security.

Wealth does not just affect business. It also affects family (or extended "family") who want their share of wealth. That's not always about business.

ETA: and people can feel personally snubbed. That's got nothing to do with wealth. I'm not ready to concede the "it's got to be about wealth" as the sole possible rationale, even though I do suspect wealth has something to do with it.

 

[JDG]

I consider anything to do with his wealth to be business related. They want a piece of his wealth.... his holdings.

The point i am making is that the greatest possibility for motive has to do with his business dealings. It is obvious, just like this was obviously a double murder.

The man has said he is surprised nobody has killed him yet because of the numerous enemies he has made. Yes there are other possibilities. But they are unlikely IMO.

I am surprised and actually find it perplexing that a man with many enemies and of his wealth and power, didn't have secret service like level of security.

I think Bill Gates has raised a family without a secret service like level of security. IMO
I recall reading that there is a guard house to his property where his home is and Im sure the children had security of some sort but Ive also seen photos of them walking along the beach like normal kids. IMO

BS was 'frugal' and obviously felt comfortable in his neighbourhood. IMO
It was naive to not have at least basic/or better security and Im surprised his wife didn't insist on it. Being 'frugal' is one thing, being totally lax another. IMO

BS had his accomplishments but I wonder about him as a person, when one hears he needs help dressing, choosing foods to eat and seemingly blind to the risks he took everyday by not having even a driver to get him to the office and back safely. IMO

The Royal Family have security trailing their children when at school and on outings but its not always obvious. Sherman could have afforded something similar for himself and his wife. IMO

His children/grandchildren have tightened security around themselves now. As well as other family members. IMO

There had been a lot of discontent about BS not taking Apotex public. So, you are correct, plenty of people wanted to share the wealth.

Begs the question, when is enough money, enough? How much do you need for a very comfortable life for you and your family?

 

[JDG]

How do you know? You are assuming that people weren't phoning them all Thursday? Do you speak to your friends and family every day? HS was known to be very social.

I think the realtor was calling them. When she couldn't get an answer, she drove over and found them. She had been trying to set up a showing, no doubt on Thursday, as Friday sundown and Saturday, are the Jewish Sabbath.

 

[Researchnut]

I'm not sure if this was posted yet. BS had friends who really liked him. Murray Rubin didn't have to like Barry for his money. He's a pharmacist.

,https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/sherm...suicide-should-never-have-been-made-1.3777592

 

[JDG]

Sorry if I'm behind... if this thought may have already been expressed by someone else.. but if BS wrote an email at around 8:30pm on the Wed evening, and LE have now stated that neither of the couple were heard from after the Wed evening.. I'm thinking, if that email had been sent by BS to Desai... and then the couple were murdered shortly thereafter.. whomever *was* the recipient of that email, may have been the one to alert certain people that the couple were now at their home. jmo

These days you can email from anywhere. Gone are the days of the solitary desk computer in the den. Phones, iPads, tablets....he could be anywhere when he sent that email. IMO

It may have been used to ask "what time is your meeting over?" or "please let me know when you'll be available."
The impression I had was that it was a business email not necessarily 'tracking him' but it could be.
Anything is possible.

 

[JDG]

I'm not sure if this was posted yet. BS had friends who really liked him. Murray Rubin didn't have to like Barry for his money. He's a pharmacist.

,https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/sherm...suicide-should-never-have-been-made-1.3777592

There's been a fair bit in the papers about pharmacists taking kick backs lately. Even the head honchos at the College of Pharmacy have been caught 'enriching themselves' with kickbacks. Not a 'straight forward business' seemingly. hmmmm

 

[deugirtni]

I doubt murder/suicide would have even entered our heads had it not been for that rumor. Based on that rumor, I tried hard to figure out why and how murder/suicide could happen IF it did, while perching precariously on the fence, but I hated to think it happened that way. At worst, it seemed possible that it could have been unintentional manslaughter/suicide, but again, that thought only came from the rumor of murder/suicide. Otherwise, double murder was the more obvious conclusion. The Frank Report was quite accurate and I wonder who was feeding them info.

But I’d really love to know who planted this rumor. What did they have to gain, if anything? Perhaps someone who hoped LE would be stupid enough to accept that explanation? Or someone who set it up to look like a double suicide, but knew LE would quickly figure out it wasn’t? Or just someone who spoke out of turn and the press ran with it? I do understand why LE couldn’t reveal anything to the family to ease their minds without compromising the investigation. Hopefully, the rumor caused the murderer to relax their guard.

JMO

The same day the couple's bodies were found, a constable did a short statement and Q&A with the media, in which he said there were 'no concerns for public safety at this time', and on City News a Homicide detective on the scene was recorded on the news saying they were not seeking any 'outstanding' suspects. That alone told us that police had already concluded on that same day, before the bodies had been removed from the home, before the autopsies were performed, that there was no murderer at large. What other conclusion was there to come to, other than either S/S, or M/S? jmo

December 15[SUP]th [/SUP]from City News (keyword = 'outstanding' imho) (BBM):

Reporter City News: Homicide detectives were at the scene as well, but only to assist officers in their investigation. And while they wouldn’t call either death a murder, Homicide detective Brandon Price *did* try to ease the fears of neighbours, that a killer may be on the loose:

Detective Brandon Price at 1:24: I can say that at this point uh in the investigation, though it is very early, um we uh are *not* currently uh seeking or uh looking for an outstanding suspect.

http://toronto.citynews.ca/video/iframe/593482582001/SyxzIeNcgb/5682715102001?auto_play_switch=false

 

[liz b.]

I don't believe this for a second (not that I can't be wrong on this!). What burglars would go to such lengths to kill their victims?

Just a quick perusal of this site can be an amazing education. "What burglars " ? I would say fairly young, probably high during the event. No/low impulse control. I have said from the start that there is a sociopathic element to this crime.Never for a moment did I entertain a murder/suicide. Most crimes are basic,with very basic motives, not exotic ones, but this is just my opinion.

 

[liz b.]

what sort of things do you think were taken?
paperwork? computer/phone/tablet?

Things of obvious value. Cash, jewelry. jmo

 

[JDG]

But the point is... If he affected someone he likely did it through his business dealings. I dont think he interacted with people much for anything other than business.

What kind of motive can you imagine that does not have to do with his business affairs?

Anger * * most likely reasons
Revenge*
Money*
-----------------
Money
Hate
Jealousy

Those are just a few, getting tired. lol

Money is in both categories, moreso in the top list such as wanting the company to go public. IMO

Money in the second category as in who gains from the deaths. IMO

Just my honest opinions.

 

[deugirtni]

These days you can email from anywhere. Gone are the days of the solitary desk computer in the den. Phones, iPads, tablets....he could be anywhere when he sent that email. IMO

It may have been used to ask "what time is your meeting over?" or "please let me know when you'll be available."
The impression I had was that it was a business email not necessarily 'tracking him' but it could be.
Anything is possible.

Yes agreed that anything is possible. I know a few very active businessmen who are older like BS, and even though they continue to run profitable businesses, the ones that I know are not too much into emailing via phone, (or texting for that matter), they have come into the 90s by using computers however. Due to the timing of that email, it was just something I was personally envisioning - that when BS arrived home after the suggested architect meeting (and perhaps dinner with HS afterward?), he got home and possibly emailed someone back... and that person may have therefore known that the couple were then home.. I'd be looking into the recipient of that email, imho.

 

[deugirtni]

I think the realtor was calling them. When she couldn't get an answer, she drove over and found them. She had been trying to set up a showing, no doubt on Thursday, as Friday sundown and Saturday, are the Jewish Sabbath.

Reports at the time said the realtor was wanting to prepare for an impending open house. Just my opinion, but I don't think the S couple observed the Jewish Sabbath.

 

[AllyJane]

Things of obvious value. Cash, jewelry. jmo

The LE said this was a targetted murder not a robbery. I would think robbers would have provided more obvious evidence in the house. Even the PI speculated this was a contract killing. I would hesitate to think that a robbery for jewelery (which can usually be traced) and cash (how much cash do you think the would have lying around considering they had staff and a real estate agent with clients coming and going) would take the time the strangle both people with belts and remove the ties that bound them together. JMO

 

[deugirtni]

Yes agreed that anything is possible. I know a few very active businessmen who are older like BS, and even though they continue to run profitable businesses, the ones that I know are not too much into emailing via phone, (or texting for that matter), they have come into the 90s by using computers however. Due to the timing of that email, it was just something I was personally envisioning - that when BS arrived home after the suggested architect meeting (and perhaps dinner with HS afterward?), he got home and possibly emailed someone back... and that person may have therefore known that the couple were then home.. I'd be looking into the recipient of that email, imho.

Just thinking a bit further on the 'dinner' thing - if the couple met at the new property as reported in the one publication, to meet with the architect, and each arriving in separate vehicles - with BS having come straight from the office - I'm going to take a leap in thinking that the two likely had dinner at some point after that. And considering that the bodies were found relatively quickly, and an autopsy done - wouldn't LE have been able to determine a time and likely location of 'their last meal', which would give the ME a good indication of TOD, based on the food in the stomach. (Sorry if that's too graphic, but we read about this stuff all the time). How could the ME not know if they died Wed night or Thursday during the day? jmo

 

[dotr]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/sherman-deaths-toronto-police-update-1.4505259

The evidence so far

Gomes said officers have spent thousands of hours on the investigation so far, including:

• The collection of 150 pieces of evidence from the crime scene.
• The collection of 2,000 hours of surveillance footage from the area around the Sherman home.
• The search of two residential properties owned by the Shermans, including a Miami-area condo.
• The execution or orders for 20 judicial authorizations and searches.

Toronto police have searched Barry Sherman's workplace at Apotex Inc., a generic drug manufacturing company that he founded in 1973.

Earlier this week, a source with direct knowledge of the parallel probe told CBC Toronto that private investigators believe the Shermans were slain by multiple killers.

"If you knocked at Barry's door, unless you looked like a gorilla, he'd let you in. I don't believe he worried about being murdered. It wasn't in his brain that somebody is gonna kill him," Rubin told CBC Toronto.

And while he welcomed the news from the police today, Rubin said he was disappointed.

"I'm looking for somebody to be involved to a point where they have a person that they're looking into," he said.

"The police have come to the conclusion that anybody that knows Barry for the last number of years came to … that he was murdered, it was a paid killing. Why his wife was included, I don't know, she might have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time. But there is no question it's a murder. The problem is, why? And who?"

Clarifications

• An earlier version of this story stated that police attempted to search Sherman's Apotex office. In fact, Apotex says police did search his office with the company's full co-operation.
  
  Jan 26, 2018 10:39 PM ET

 

[AllyJane]

I still think a missing link here is the staff. They clearly had access to the house since a staff member was at the house on Friday when the real estate agent came. S/he clearly had access to the house where the Shermans lay dead. How did the staff get into the house. Did they have their own key? Is there a door with a key pad for entry.

Also in a lot of homes with a security system, there is usually a panic button in the house. I would imagine that a house of that size would have a few. If that were the case, I would assume the BS and HS were totally taken by complete surprise in order not to reach one of those buttons if they do exist. It will be interesting how the LE or PI piece together the last hours before their deaths.

 

[JDG]

Just thinking a bit further on the 'dinner' thing - if the couple met at the new property as reported in the one publication, to meet with the architect, and each arriving in separate vehicles - with BS having come straight from the office - I'm going to take a leap in thinking that the two likely had dinner at some point after that. And considering that the bodies were found relatively quickly, and an autopsy done - wouldn't LE have been able to determine a time and likely location of 'their last meal', which would give the ME a good indication of TOD, based on the food in the stomach. (Sorry if that's too graphic, but we read about this stuff all the time). How could the ME not know if they died Wed night or Thursday during the day? jmo

Bodies decompose at different rates, depending on weight, room temperature etc.

Im sure that all of that was part of the autopsies and will be in the autopsy reports, if they could get an estimated TOD.

TPS isn't about to release that information to anyone but the possibly the PIs. It will be part of a trial, if and when they prosecute someone.

As for your first post, they didn't get out of the pool area, nor have a chance to take off their boots/coats. Doubt he had time to send email, given they were being murdered.