Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

[andreww]

this - “LE continued to be sticking to the M/S theory”.....?

If you are stating this as fact, what’s your source?

The fact that production orders were only applied for listing Honey as the only victim. If indeed both Honey and Barry had ligature marks on their wrists, why would LE not list Barry as a victim?

 

[andreww]

Perhaps someone killed Honey at Barry's request and Barry then killed himself after moving her to a place where he could be beside her.

Or maybe it was Aliens . But seriously, we have no forced entry, no sign of intruders, no video surveillance, and we have an indication that Barry died hours after Honey. We also have coincidences, it happening immediately after their meeting with the builder and Honey's eminent departure to Florida. But foremost, we had one of the richest and well connected families in the country publicly voicing their displeasure that LE was even considering M/S as an option. Not to mention family meetings with the PM, Premier and Mayor all within days of police changing their minds and then going silent for seven months.

 

[dotr]

'Everything in this case raises an eyebrow': What we know, and don't know, about the Sherman investigation | CBC News
December 22, 2017
rbbm.
"I think everything in this case raises an eyebrow," said former Toronto homicide detective Dave Perry.While homicide investigators have taken the lead in the case, it has not been classified as a homicide but, rather, a "suspicious death investigation."

"You have to prove, working backwards from where they're found, how they got to where they are," said Perry."

"If they were both found hanged, it's unlikely it was a double suicide, said former Toronto homicide detective Mark Mandelson.

"I think if you canvassed 100 homicide detectives in North America, you'd be hard pressed to find very many of us who said they ever dealt with a double suicide where the mechanism of death was hanging," he said. "I find that sort of the least-palatable resolution."

"But Perry said the fact that police are not looking for suspects suggests investigators believe whatever happened to the Shermans was isolated to the house, between the two of them, and no one else was involved.

He said that while investigators must keep their minds wide open, from what police have so far indicated, a double murder is one of the explanations that likely can be excluded.

"It's [a] very unusual, very unusual way to commit homicide," he said. "Where you have this wonderful couple, standing members of the community, are somehow both dead from a ligature compression of the neck. It's bizarre."

 

[matou]

Or maybe it was Aliens . But seriously, we have no forced entry, no sign of intruders, no video surveillance, and we have an indication that Barry died hours after Honey. We also have coincidences, it happening immediately after their meeting with the builder and Honey's eminent departure to Florida. But foremost, we had one of the richest and well connected families in the country publicly voicing their displeasure that LE was even considering M/S as an option. Not to mention family meetings with the PM, Premier and Mayor all within days of police changing their minds and then going silent for seven months.

Oh you! aliens.....! No forced entry could be Barry letting the person in or letting them know how to get in. Kerry said he was approached by Barry to arrange for Honey's death. Cops called this a murder-suicide right away. No one in the house except for staff and realtors. I still have a problem with the double murder claim.

 

[MistyWaters]

The fact that production orders were only applied for listing Honey as the only victim. If indeed both Honey and Barry had ligature marks on their wrists, why would LE not list Barry as a victim?

In the sketchy article you’re referring to, notice who the subpoenas were issued to wasn’t mentioned, nor for what reason LE was requesting access to the records? If the records were in Honey’s name, then any details pertaining to her husband’s death are totally irrelevant. The absence of Barry’s name only proves any reference to him wasn’t required in order for the Judge to approve the subpoenas.

Better question, why were LE conducting an intensive investigation if it were already “M/S case closed”?

 

[MistyWaters]

Unnamed police sources “right-away” called it a murder-suicide, yes - because that’s exactly how the death scene appeared. Following the autopsies, when it was determined both died by the same cause, the Homicide Team took lead in the investigation. The intent of staging deaths is for a homicide to go undiscovered. I’m certain no one expects LE to walk in the door, have a quick look around and take whatever they see at face value and walk away?

@ matou Maybe you missed media reports and discussion involving the realtors lockbox? It’s also been clarified more than once that “no forced entry” refers to no obvious signs of doors or windows being broken (ie entry by force).

There are other cases involving homicides whereby the deaths were mistakenly and hastily deemed accidental, suicide or undetermined because of staging as well. In this case TPS righty undertook an intensive investigation prior to announcing the conclusion. I don’t see why anyone has a problem with that.

 

[MistyWaters]

I don’t recall reading before that it’s possible one of B’s “last acts” while alive was to instruct his lawyers to further appeal the $300,000 costs awarded.

“....At issue now is how much money the cousins should have to pay Sherman to cover his legal bills after their high-profile lawsuit, which sought a 20 per cent cut of their relative’s pharmaceutical fortune, was dismissed last September in Ontario Superior Court. A judge rejected the cousins’ claim as “wishful thinking and beyond fanciful,” and on Dec. 6—seven days before Barry and Honey were last seen alive—the same judge ordered the cousins to pay $300,000 toward Sherman’s legal costs.

That amount wasn’t large enough, apparently. Court records obtained by Maclean’s show that lawyers representing Sherman and his generic drug company filed a written notice at Ontario’s Court of Appeal on Dec. 22, the day after memorial, arguing that the cost award should be overturned because it “is clearly and plainly wrong.” They insist the cousins should be forced to pay more than triple that amount: approximately $985,000.

While Jordan Berman, an Apotex spokesman, said he can’t discuss active litigation, the timing of the appeal is telling: it suggests that one of the last things Sherman did while he was still alive was to instruct his lawyers to continue battling, in the province’s highest court, to have his cousins reimburse a much bigger chunk of his legal bills....”
Barry Sherman's legal battle with his cousins goes on weeks after his murder - Macleans.ca

 

[andreww]

Unnamed police sources “right-away” called it a murder-suicide, yes - because that’s exactly how the death scene appeared. Following the autopsies, when it was determined both died by the same cause, the Homicide Team took lead in the investigation. The intent of staging deaths is for a homicide to go undiscovered. I’m certain no one expects LE to walk in the door, have a quick look around and take whatever they see at face value and walk away?

There are other cases involving homicides whereby the deaths were mistakenly and hastily deemed accidental, suicide or undetermined because of staging as well. In this case TPS righty undertook an intensive investigation prior to announcing the conclusion. I don’t see why anyone has a problem with that.

I would assume that homicide may have been called in when it was discovered that Honey was murdered and that it wasn't a double suicide.

The problem that I have with TPS is that there was obvious outside influence from one of the most influential families in the country. As soon as the family hired their own team I predicted that TPS would label this a double murder and that we'd never hear a word about it again. So far I'm bang on. Not surprising that TPS has said nothing, more surprising that the once ever so public family and their investigative team has suddenly become silent. Something tells me the reason for that is that their mission has been accomplished.

And before I get reamed for wearing a tinfoil hat, remember what went on in the Jonbenet Ramsey case. Remember Chappaquiddick. People with money can make things happen that the rest of us can't.

 

[ldlager]

Or maybe it was Aliens . But seriously, we have no forced entry, no sign of intruders, no video surveillance, and we have an indication that Barry died hours after Honey. We also have coincidences, it happening immediately after their meeting with the builder and Honey's eminent departure to Florida. But foremost, we had one of the richest and well connected families in the country publicly voicing their displeasure that LE was even considering M/S as an option. Not to mention family meetings with the PM, Premier and Mayor all within days of police changing their minds and then going silent for seven months.

Above RBBM. AFAIK there has been no information made available publicly by LE regarding any of the bolded words above. Andreww, please let us know where you are getting this information, and please provide links/sources. In the absence of these, I will assume this information comes solely from KW's posts.

 

[MistyWaters]

I would assume that homicide may have been called in when it was discovered that Honey was murdered and that it wasn't a double suicide.

The problem that I have with TPS is that there was obvious outside influence from one of the most influential families in the country. As soon as the family hired their own team I predicted that TPS would label this a double murder and that we'd never hear a word about it again. So far I'm bang on. Not surprising that TPS has said nothing, more surprising that the once ever so public family and their investigative team has suddenly become silent. Something tells me the reason for that is that their mission has been accomplished.

And before I get reamed for wearing a tinfoil hat, remember what went on in the Jonbenet Ramsey case. Remember Chappaquiddick. People with money can make things happen that the rest of us can't.

With regard to influencing the outcome of an investigation, if the family held such power they’d have no need to hire their own team.

 

[MistyWaters]

The latest, no decision.

MANDEL: Barry Sherman’s cousins fighting for share of Apotex fortune
Kerry Winter is angry.

The notorious cousin of murdered billionaire Barry Sherman is furiously writing a note to his lawyer Brad Teplitsky, who is doing his best to convince three judges of the Ontario Court of Appeal to overturn a decision that scuttled efforts by Winter and his siblings from getting a share of their late cousin’s fortune.

When his note isn’t answered, Winter gets out of his seat and stomps toward his lawyer, gesturing angrily and insisting he make certain points........

.......The judges reserved their decision.

And the emotional lead plaintiff? Winter stormed out of the courtroom. After introducing myself, he offered only two words — and they weren’t nice ones.

 

[MistyWaters]

But this, so it is.

BBM

“In court documents filed shortly after, his sister-in-law, Julia Winter, blamed Winter’s “disconcerting” behaviour and “perplexing media campaign” on a mental breakdown she believes he suffered after the murders.

He agreed to undergo a mental health assessment and is now being represented by a litigation guardian.”
MANDEL: Barry Sherman’s cousins fighting for share of Apotex fortune

 

[deugirtni]

The latest, no decision.

MANDEL: Barry Sherman’s cousins fighting for share of Apotex fortune
Kerry Winter is angry.

The notorious cousin of murdered billionaire Barry Sherman is furiously writing a note to his lawyer Brad Teplitsky, who is doing his best to convince three judges of the Ontario Court of Appeal to overturn a decision that scuttled efforts by Winter and his siblings from getting a share of their late cousin’s fortune.

When his note isn’t answered, Winter gets out of his seat and stomps toward his lawyer, gesturing angrily and insisting he make certain points........

.......The judges reserved their decision.

And the emotional lead plaintiff? Winter stormed out of the courtroom. After introducing myself, he offered only two words — and they weren’t nice ones.

Wonder if the 2 words started with F and O?

 

[dotr]

Barry Sherman cousins say the billionaire owed them a fiduciary duty | The Star
Aug 16 2018
"On Wednesday the cousins, represented by lawyer Brad Teplitsky, asked the court to set aside Hood’s ruling and direct that a trial be held. The appeal panel has reserved its decision.

Meanwhile, the investigation into the mysterious murders of Sherman and his wife Honey continues. They were found dead in their Toronto home on Dec. 15, though they likely died two days previously. Police have ruled the deaths, by ligature strangulation, a targeted homicide. Eight months into the investigation, there have been no police updates."

"Teplitsky argued that an “ad hoc fiduciary duty” outlasted the option agreement and that the superior court judge should have taken that into account. Teplitsky told court that Lou Winter was “like a surrogate father” to Barry."
"Justices Robert Sharpe, Russell Juriansz and Roberts will issue their decision sometime in the next few weeks."

 

[Satchie]

I don’t recall reading before that it’s possible one of B’s “last acts” while alive was to instruct his lawyers to further appeal the $300,000 costs awarded.

“....At issue now is how much money the cousins should have to pay Sherman to cover his legal bills after their high-profile lawsuit, which sought a 20 per cent cut of their relative’s pharmaceutical fortune, was dismissed last September in Ontario Superior Court. A judge rejected the cousins’ claim as “wishful thinking and beyond fanciful,” and on Dec. 6—seven days before Barry and Honey were last seen alive—the same judge ordered the cousins to pay $300,000 toward Sherman’s legal costs.

That amount wasn’t large enough, apparently. Court records obtained by Maclean’s show that lawyers representing Sherman and his generic drug company filed a written notice at Ontario’s Court of Appeal on Dec. 22, the day after memorial, arguing that the cost award should be overturned because it “is clearly and plainly wrong.” They insist the cousins should be forced to pay more than triple that amount: approximately $985,000.

While Jordan Berman, an Apotex spokesman, said he can’t discuss active litigation, the timing of the appeal is telling: it suggests that one of the last things Sherman did while he was still alive was to instruct his lawyers to continue battling, in the province’s highest court, to have his cousins reimburse a much bigger chunk of his legal bills....”
Barry Sherman's legal battle with his cousins goes on weeks after his murder - Macleans.ca

I think that's quite creative of Macleans to suggest a little scene where Barry's 'final action' is to instruct his lawyers to go after the cousins for more money. But I think lawyers always appeal, the decision probably wasn't even discussed, it was just a matter of preparing the proper legal documents, which take time.

Here's the sequence:

Sept 2017: claim by Winters' for share of Apotex dismissed in Ontario Superior Court
Oct 2017 Winters' file appeal of the dismissal
Dec 6 Ontario Superior court awards costs
Dec 22 Sherman's lawyers appeal costs

It's just the way the courts work, first there's a judgement, then it's tested in an appeal, and, of course, it's how lawyers make their living.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think that's quite creative of Macleans to suggest a little scene where Barry's 'final action' is to instruct his lawyers to go after the cousins for more money. But I think lawyers always appeal, the decision probably wasn't even discussed, it was just a matter of preparing the proper legal documents, which take time.

Here's the sequence:

Sept 2017: claim by Winters' for share of Apotex dismissed in Ontario Superior Court
Oct 2017 Winters' file appeal of the dismissal
Dec 6 Ontario Superior court awards costs
Dec 22 Sherman's lawyers appeal costs

It's just the way the courts work, first there's a judgement, then it's tested in an appeal, and, of course, it's how lawyers make their living.

I understand “one of the last things” (direct quote as per Macleans) to refer to within days of his death. Considering all that’s been written about the decade long billion dollar lawsuit proceedings, I have no doubt instructions to appeal the costs awarded came directly from Barry Sherman. Some might view it rightful compensation following a courtroom victory, others might see it as rubbing salt into wounds. Coincidently the appeal was filed the day after the memorial but I do wonder what was the originally scheduled date.

 

[JayFriend]

MANDEL: Barry Sherman’s cousins fighting for share of Apotex fortune

Barry Sherman cousins say the billionaire owed them a fiduciary duty | The Star

 

[Sherman Barry]

I like everyone else who has posted here I have no evidence at all about the Barry and Honey Sherman deaths. I have read an abundance of news reports regarding the case and see by the diverse opinions and theories posted that consensus will only happen when the investigation is complete and some one is charged. People are going to believe what they want to based on their feelings not facts. If I believe this is a case of double murder, then I point to the ligature marks on both of the Sherman's wrists, the murderers must have done this while binding them together. If I believe this to be a case of murder suicide, then I look at the ligature marks as Barry lashing their wrists together so he could transport Honey's body over his back to the pool from another area of the house. Time may tell but maybe not. I am not a believer in conspiracy theories so I don't see a big cover up here.

 

[MistyWaters]

But this, so it is.

BBM

“In court documents filed shortly after, his sister-in-law, Julia Winter, blamed Winter’s “disconcerting” behaviour and “perplexing media campaign” on a mental breakdown she believes he suffered after the murders.

He agreed to undergo a mental health assessment and is now being represented by a litigation guardian.”
MANDEL: Barry Sherman’s cousins fighting for share of Apotex fortune

Quoting my own post in regards to this earlier media report.

April 4th
Teplitsky said the Law Society of Upper Canada suggested he bring a motion before court to appoint a litigation guardian, something done in cases where “unsoundness of mind” is determined, according to Teplitsky’s documents.

Winter is opposing the appointment of a litigation guardian (a lawyer provided by the province at provincial expense) and has told the Star he is competent to represent himself.
Barry Sherman’s cousin to undergo ‘disability’ assessment as billion-dollar appeal continues | The Star


So according to the most recent media report, KW is indeed being represented by a Litigation Guardian in the cousins’ lawsuit therefore “unsoundness of mind” was determined by a mental health assessment.

Is that why this case has gone silent as well? If TPS are interested in interviewing KW again for any reason, they cannot until he’s overcome his mental disability through treatment, assuming it’s a temporary situation.

As for KWs recent participation on this thread to promote M/S and place himself as the holder of truth involving the Sherman deaths, although we cannot know his motivation I suppose he can write whatever he wants knowing he cannot be held accountable. Intentional and devious hoodwinking by him to create a lot of wasted energy focused on M/S, is how I feel about it.

 

[WINDSOR]

Thanks Misty on the update regarding 'litigation guardian' for Kerry Winter. One therefore might want to discount KW's statements and opinions to a certain degree, if he has been experiencing issues of an 'unsound mind'.