CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #21

[dotr]

Noting that it is JS who may be associated with introducing JK as a possible contender, just as AK possibly suggested JS, imo speculation,

Who killed Barry and Honey Sherman? A new book offers fascinating insights. - Macleans.ca

Kevin Donovan, the chief investigative reporter at the Toronto Star, talks about the unique investigation, the family and why he believes the case will be solved

macleans.ca

By Anne KingstonOctober 30, 2019

''Q: The book also chronicles fractures after the Shermans’ deaths, including Honey’s sister being exiled from the family. You also write about how Jack Kay, Barry Sherman’s right hand at Apotex for 35 years and a trustee of the estate, was the subject of a rumour floated by Jonathon that he was somehow involved in the murders, and he was later kicked out of Apotex. Some of this is stranger than fiction.​

A: Jack Kay was asked to come back to be in charge at Apotex. One year and one day after the murders, Jonathon Sherman and an Apotex executive ushered Kay out of the building. There’s no gold watch, no party. There’s mediation going on now because Kay was not offered anything after 35 years of service. It is the case that there is a lot of finger-pointing going on, as I report, where they initially blame Frank D’Angelo, then Jonathan says Jack Kay was involved. When Greenspan has written me, he says that my own sources, who I don’t identify, may be guilty as well. There’s a lot of finger-pointing.''

Brother vs. sister: Two of Barry and Honey Sherman’s children in a battle for control of the family empire

Son Jonathon and daughter Alexandra face off against each other in a struggle over control of the multibillion-dollar Sherman empire. Meanwhile, Sherman company boss Alex Glasenberg says his goal is to support Barry Sherman’s legacy.

www.thestar.com

2021
''The firing of Kay did not sit well with Alexandra. This was a man she and her siblings had grown up knowing as one of their father’s best friends. Recalling the months leading up to the firing, she said “Jack and Jon were fighting ... like two bulls butting heads.” She decided to back away from both of them. She said her brother had also suggested he was suspicious that Kay was somehow involved in the murders, which she said is “ridiculous.” On that issue, Jonathon has told me he was not “telling people Jack did it,” just that he had “concerns” about Jack.''

''Jonathon has noted that the rift between himself and Alexandra coincided with a time when, he said, she began suggesting he was “implicated” in the murder of their parents. He dismisses that suggestion. “I am the only person who knows I was not involved.”

(Toronto homicide detectives say they have numerous persons of interest in their investigation, which they will not identify.''

 

[FromGermany1]

Since it was generally understood that Honey was attacked in another part of the house and moved to the pool, down a long set of winding stairs and then across ten metres of floor, friends said that Barry simply lacked the physical ability. Honey weighed 170 pounds, and it seemed impossible that Sherman could have moved her body.

Donovan, Kevin. The Billionaire Murders (pp. 93-94). Penguin Canada.

If it ever happened like that, WHY was it so very important to the killer to put the bodies of the victims together as a pair? To show "to the world", HS and BS deserved to be killed together? To show, Yin and Yang belonged together, during life until to the bitter end? To show, one of them would be useless without the other like a key and a lock would be useless as a single part? Was it even an act of mercy to put the spouses together? Is there some profound Jewish faith in the play, which had nothing to do with HS/BS' faith (because their attitude to Religion was very different), but with the belief of the killer only?

I can't understand the sense of the effort, the killer would have to have expend by dragging a dead body downstairs, one or even two storeys.
I can hardly understand it, when they didn't get dragged downstairs, but were in a way transported to be found sitting near together like the skulptures.

 

[RHR]

I can't imagine the cops didn't check his whereabouts. He was in New York the day the bodies were discovered. The concert was the night before. So if they only stayed one night *maybe* it's possible. I still don't think he had anything to do with

 

[RHR]

If it ever happened like that, WHY was it so very important to the killer to put the bodies of the victims together as a pair? To show "to the world", HS and BS deserved to be killed together? To show, Yin and Yang belonged together, during life until to the bitter end? To show, one of them would be useless without the other like a key and a lock would be useless as a single part? Was it even an act of mercy to put the spouses together? Is there some profound Jewish faith in the play, which had nothing to do with HS/BS' faith (because their attitude to Religion was very different), but with the belief of the killer only?

I can't understand the sense of the effort, the killer would have to have expend by dragging a dead body downstairs, one or even two storeys.
I can hardly understand it, when they didn't get dragged downstairs, but were in a way transported to be found sitting near together like the skulptures.

Putting their bodies in the pool area IMO was to make sure they were not found for a while.
Giving the murderers time pull themselves together to prepare their response to the news.
Putting them together was nothing more than they were murdered together.
Placing them in a staged position I think was an after thought.
Once they were dead I think it was a matter of making it look like a professional hit by possibly big pharma or the Winters etc.
Possibly seeing the junk art sculptures gave them the idea for the staging.
Two people moving HS down from the main floor to the pool wouldn’t be easy but also wouldn’t be that difficult.
I think she was still alive when she was taken downstairs. She was probably taken down the stairs in the front hall.
I can’t see them taking her all the way to the back of the house and down a spiral staircase.
Her phone was found in the powder room beside the front door.

I think HS came into the house from the side door.
She took off her coat and winter shoes/boots.
Walked into the kitchen and put her purse on the island.
Something happened then that made her walk toward the front hall.
Whatever it was it made her run toward the front door to escape. Knowing she wasn’t going to make it she ran into the powder room. I think she probably attempted to lock the door and make a 911 call.

Originally I had the thought the alarm was off when she came in the side door and that made her concerned and fearful. She wouldn’t forget something like turning on the alarm when leaving the house.
The fact that her coat was off and her slip on shoes were on, her bag in the kitchen changed my mind.
I think the alarm was left on or put back on once the murderers entered the house. I think they were in her bedroom looking for paperwork etc that may be related to wills.

The sound from the alarm when she entered and the sound from it being turned off would let the murderers know she was home.
All of this of course is my speculation.

 

[RHR]

Putting their bodies in the pool area IMO was to make sure they were not found for a while.
Giving the murderers time pull themselves together to prepare their response to the news.
Putting them together was nothing more than they were murdered together.
Placing them in a staged position I think was an after thought.
Once they were dead I think it was a matter of making it look like a professional hit by possibly big pharma or the Winters etc.
Possibly seeing the junk art sculptures gave them the idea for the staging.
Two people moving HS down from the main floor to the pool wouldn’t be easy but also wouldn’t be that difficult.
I think she was still alive when she was taken downstairs. She was probably taken down the stairs in the front hall.
I can’t see them taking her all the way to the back of the house and down a spiral staircase.
Her phone was found in the powder room beside the front door.

I think HS came into the house from the side door.
She took off her coat and winter shoes/boots.
Walked into the kitchen and put her purse on the island.
Something happened then that made her walk toward the front hall.
Whatever it was it made her run toward the front door to escape. Knowing she wasn’t going to make it she ran into the powder room. I think she probably attempted to lock the door and make a 911 call.

Originally I had the thought the alarm was off when she came in the side door and that made her concerned and fearful. She wouldn’t forget something like turning on the alarm when leaving the house.
The fact that her coat was off and her slip on shoes were on, her bag in the kitchen changed my mind.
I think the alarm was left on or put back on once the murderers entered the house. I think they were in her bedroom looking for paperwork etc that may be related to wills.

The sound from the alarm when she entered and the sound from it being turned off would let the murderers know she was home.
All of this of course is my speculation.

I apologize for the awful grammar.

 

[taylorss]

IA … i always figured they were taken to the pool room for hiding from discovery.
The way they were set up sounds IMO like something that may have happened spontaneously driven by a sense of “humor” during the process.
JMO

 

[MerlinFalcon]

This makes sense. I also wondered why not just throw them into the pool after, under the pool cover? It would have been easier and may have hid them longer and their bodies would have likely decomposed quicker. Posing their bodies afterward was either a sick joke or making a statement.

IA … i always figured they were taken to the pool room for hiding from discovery.
The way they were set up sounds IMO like something that may have happened spontaneously driven by a sense of “humor” during the process.
JMO

 

[Lexiintoronto]

This makes sense. I also wondered why not just throw them into the pool after, under the pool cover? It would have been easier and may have hid them longer and their bodies would have likely decomposed quicker. Posing their bodies afterward was either a sick joke or making a statement.

I wondered that as well. They’d also really hamper the forensic examination by doing that.

Dotr posted an article previously about some killers wanting to ‘restore order’ to a murder scene after killing someone. Another member said the killer obviously brings their own personality to the crime and that some things are acceptable to do, and some are not.

For whatever reason, placing them in the pool may have seemed ‘wrong’ to them, imo. Restoring order may been shown in the staging details.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

2021

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-honey-sherman-murder-2021-1.5860527

View attachment 425054

''They suggest the last people to see the Shermans alive were a custom home builder, architect and subcontractor who met with the couple around 5 p.m. ET on Wednesday, Dec. 13, 2017, to go over some details of the new $20 million home they planned to build. ''

"Toronto police seized this security camera image of three home builders arriving at Barry Sherman's offices at Apotex in Toronto for a meeting on Dec. 13, 2017. It was the last day the couple was seen alive. (Ontario Court of Justice)
Honey Sherman left the meeting at about 5:30 p.m. and headed home. Barry Sherman stayed at the office for a few more hours to finish some work.

At 6:21 pm, Honey Sherman used her mobile phone to make a five-minute call to a friend. It appears to be the last time family or friends heard from her.''

Brennan told police that HS said something to BS about him having to be home early, but Brennan didn’t recall what the reason was. I wonder if the other two gentleman there in the meeting recalled what was said.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Brennan told police that HS said something to BS about him having to be home early, but Brennan didn’t recall what the reason was. I wonder if the other two gentleman there in the meeting recalled what was said.

and who else did HS or BS tell? or where all conversations they had being listened in on.

I am not sure if Apotex would allow LE to see all the applications BS phone had on his Blackberry and the data history of those apps. (if any eavesdropping device was on it, listening to all conversations had around the cell?)

 

[taylorss]

In KD podcast he says the victims had ligature marks on their necks under the belts, like they were strangled with something the killer then removed & posed the scene with the belts. Likewise marks on their wrists showing they were bound & then the ligatures taken away for posing. AFAIK no ligatures connected to the scene were ever found… LE searched sewers etc but nothing

Tools like efficient, no-trace ligatures seem JMO like the MO of a type of killer… organized, professional, maybe a solider or a mercenary. Plus the victims’ arms pinned with their jackets - that also seems organized / professional / even gangster, like a pro’s trick to restrain anyone back in the Elliot Ness era when men always wore suit jackets.

I know KD says he doesn’t think there was a hired hitman … idk. It seems so hitman-esque. JMO

I can reply to my own question now after listening to KD audiobook …. KD thinks the perp accompanied HS into the house, so therefore was known to the victims.

But he also says the crime was probably done by two or more people. I could see an associate of the victims going in with HS & then letting someone else in to help or even take the lead if more experienced. MOO

 

[Sphinx]

I can reply to my own question now after listening to KD audiobook …. KD thinks the perp accompanied HS into the house, so therefore was known to the victims.

But he also says the crime was probably done by two or more people. I could see an associate of the victims going in with HS & then letting someone else in to help or even take the lead if more experienced. MOO

So, could Honey have perhaps 'bumped into" someone she knew at the Shopping Mall and let them come home with her? That just sounds more like a family member, or in-law to me, but it could have been a neighbour, or business associate. I wonder what the ruse was? Maybe something like I took a taxi to the mall, or someone else gave me a ride. Could I come home with you, and my wife/ husband/ friend, will pick me up there, and we will go home? Did someone phone her, and ask her to give them a lift to her place, on her way home, maybe so they could speak to Barry, or give him something?

Wouldn't traffic cameras show 2 people in the car? What about the video from some of the neigbours security cameras? I know the couple across the street looked at Thur. but not Wed. and when they called TPS they were slow to respond, so the video for Wed. evening may have been erased and taped over automatically. Honey's phone records might shed some light on this too, but the killers likely were careful not to be shown as calling her on the day she was murdered. I still think 2 killers were hiding in the house, but KD must have his reasons for thinking someone she trusted accompanied her into the house. You would think that killers would be aware of the neighbour's security camera, and not want to go in the front door.


Speculation on my part. IMO

 

[Window21]

I think HS entered her home alone and was ambushed there. I don't think anyone was in the car with her or with BS.

I often wonder if the reward money was increased because someone is very confident these murders won't be solved?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

The only possibly helpful detail I can add about the Bayview Village Shopping Mall is that back in 2017 parking was difficult there on a good day, and it offered/offers valet parking and a concierge with personal shoppers.

 

[FPoulet]

I wondered that as well. They’d also really hamper the forensic examination by doing that.

Dotr posted an article previously about some killers wanting to ‘restore order’ to a murder scene after killing someone. Another member said the killer obviously brings their own personality to the crime and that some things are acceptable to do, and some are not.

For whatever reason, placing them in the pool may have seemed ‘wrong’ to them, imo. Restoring order may been shown in the staging details.

I had a similar thought about restoring order. It may also be a sign of the killer(s) trying to show *some* respect or make some form of amends. MOO.

 

[taylorss]

I think HS entered her home alone and was ambushed there. I don't think anyone was in the car with her or with BS.

I often wonder if the reward money was increased because someone is very confident these murders won't be solved?

Per KD (my sole source of all info so I hope he’s reliable) LE have refused to release video footage from HS’s stop at the mall, including of her visiting an ATM (which she normally never did, they kept cash at home), and LE closely examined the drivers seat of her car.

KD speculates she may have run into someone she knew very well at the mall who hit the ATM with her & even took the wheel of her car to drive them back to her house. But then again LE totally botched the case so who knows what to think about their actions.

As for the reward, interesting that it’s to be paid out for tips that come via a tipline monitored by the victims’ kids’ atty. Useful info to be passed on to LE after review. Maybe it’s less unnerving to offer a huge reward when you get to make the first cut of everyone vying for it…… JMO

 

[MerlinFalcon]

Per KD (my sole source of all info so I hope he’s reliable) LE have refused to release video footage from HS’s stop at the mall, including of her visiting an ATM (which she normally never did, they kept cash at home), and LE closely examined the drivers seat of her car.

KD speculates she may have run into someone she knew very well at the mall who hit the ATM with her & even took the wheel of her car to drive them back to her house. But then again LE totally botched the case so who knows what to think about their actions.

As for the reward, interesting that it’s to be paid out for tips that come via a tipline monitored by the victims’ kids’ atty. Useful info to be passed on to LE after review. Maybe it’s less unnerving to offer a huge reward when you get to make the first cut of everyone vying for it…… JMO

Is that still the case? They disbanded Greenspan and his group quite a while back.

 

[taylorss]

You know, right after I posted that I started to wonder myself!! Greenspan was still working for the kids & speaking on their behalf as recently as episode 9 of the KD podcast (I’ll link podcast page below)… the date on all the episodes here is May 19, 2 weeks ago, so I guess that’s posting date….

Pretty sure you’re right that Greenspan’s investigative team finished / disbanded a while back with no resolution. But AFAIK Greenspan is still on the job.

Altho Greenspan has been acting as a media spokesman, he’s actually an expert criminal atty… the atty-client relationship & an atty’s role are crucially different from that of any other professional, at least in the US. In the US, an attys role is limited to advocating for the client’s interest. So if Greenspan had ever come across any info that might be damaging to a client, he has to take to it the grave as the saying goes. Any Canadian lawyers here to say if it’s the same up there?


KD podcast webpage

 

[FPoulet]

You know, right after I posted that I started to wonder myself!! Greenspan was still working for the kids & speaking on their behalf as recently as episode 9 of the KD podcast (I’ll link podcast page below)… the date on all the episodes here is May 19, 2 weeks ago, so I guess that’s posting date….

Pretty sure you’re right that Greenspan’s investigative team finished / disbanded a while back with no resolution. But AFAIK Greenspan is still on the job.

Altho Greenspan has been acting as a media spokesman, he’s actually an expert criminal atty… the atty-client relationship & an atty’s role are crucially different from that of any other professional, at least in the US. In the US, an attys role is limited to advocating for the client’s interest. So if Greenspan had ever come across any info that might be damaging to a client, he has to take to it the grave as the saying goes. Any Canadian lawyers here to say if it’s the same up there?


KD podcast webpage

A lawyer in Canada is obliged to keep information confidential unless there is a public safety risk (ie imminent risk of serious bodily harm or death to a person or group), or the communications themselves are criminal (ie to obtain advice to help with the commission of a crime). Another rare exception is where an accused’s innocence is at stake (ie a statement exists that could raise a reasonable doubt as to the accused’s guilt).

See, e.g.: The Lawyer’s Duty of Confidentiality – Criminal Defence Lawyers

In other words, the killer(s) could confess to BG and he could not disclose that - ever. However, if he knew that, he could not run a defense that he knows to be false such as an alibi defense.

 

[dotr]

You know, right after I posted that I started to wonder myself!! Greenspan was still working for the kids & speaking on their behalf as recently as episode 9 of the KD podcast (I’ll link podcast page below)… the date on all the episodes here is May 19, 2 weeks ago, so I guess that’s posting date….

Pretty sure you’re right that Greenspan’s investigative team finished / disbanded a while back with no resolution. But AFAIK Greenspan is still on the job.

Altho Greenspan has been acting as a media spokesman, he’s actually an expert criminal atty… the atty-client relationship & an atty’s role are crucially different from that of any other professional, at least in the US. In the US, an attys role is limited to advocating for the client’s interest. So if Greenspan had ever come across any info that might be damaging to a client, he has to take to it the grave as the saying goes. Any Canadian lawyers here to say if it’s the same up there?


KD podcast webpage

Barry Sherman’s son says his father asked him to repay tens of millions of dollars, two weeks before murders, but Barry was ‘all in’ with son’s business

The road into Jonathon Sherman’s 100-acre compound winds through a forest. A yellow smiley face tacked to a tree warns visitors that cameras are watching.

www.toronto.com

• MAR 25, 2023 rbbm
• ''He credits himself for the achievements of the private investigation, saying that without his input, “this would have been wrapped up and done with as a suicide.”
  
  While he, his sister Alex and her husband Brad were allied at the start of the private probe — having regular meetings together with Greenspan and private detective Tom Klatt — Jonathon says that at some point, Alex started thinking he was somehow involved in the murders. Eventually, she hired criminal lawyer John Rosen to push Greenspan to end his probe and give everything it had collected to the police. That happened in late 2019 and Toronto police say they are still going over 20 gigabytes of information compiled by the private investigators.''

''With the Greenspan probe shelved by late 2019, Jonathon says he launched his own private investigation led by Robert Seiden a lawyer and former prosecutor from the Manhattan District Attorney’s Office who now runs the U.S.-based company called Confidential Global Investigations. He says he hired Seiden because of Seiden’s personal history — he pursued a law career after his brother, an innocent bystander, was killed during a mob hit.

As part of his investigation team, Seiden has hired a former Toronto police homicide detective who has “good” relations with the Toronto force, Jonathon told me.''