CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #22

[ldlager]

FWIW— photo of Shermans’ dumbwaiter. (Realtor photo from houssmax.com)
View attachment 449701


It was just a small dumbwaiter. Before the murders Kaelen’s fiancé’s father was working on it.

Sure looks like an alarm motion detector on the pillar to the right of the picture of a woman

 

[Lexiintoronto]

From Dennis Curry, Free Inquiry journal,

“There Are Imponderables: The Strange Case of Barry Sherman​

“…Despite all the lawsuits, Kay describes Sherman as someone who avoided confrontation interpersonally, someone who was hesitant to argue about something that he knew nothing about. The greatest misconception, says Kay, was that Sher- man was a tough business guy, when he merely had a belief in his process and “knew what he wanted to do.” Highlighting the nature of their friendship, Kay recounts an episode of acute pancreatitis that landed him in a Toronto area hospital twenty years ago. Sherman was convinced Kay was going to die and spent four days at his business partner’s bedside in the hospital. Reflecting on it now, Kay says, “People could not believe he was out of the office for that long.”

In his unfinished 1996 memoir, A Legacy of Thoughts, Sher- man wrote of the vulnerability of the human mind and its susceptibility to religion and storytelling. “It appears that theistic beliefs are not based on observation and logical deduction but rather stem from thoughtless acceptance learned in naive youth or, alternatively, from a mindset grounded in fear rather than reason, seeking to give meaning to life and alleviate the fear of death.”29”

 

[ldlager]

Did the killer happen to attend the community meeting 2 weeks prior to the murders, concerning hiring a security company to patrol after numerous break-ins in the area?
Lengthy article which also includes the pm pool sketch. rbbm, speculation, fwiw

Large amount of cash found in Honey and Barry Sherman’s wallets ruled out a break-in

When the discovery of money and portable valuables made a robbery seem unlikely, police formed a theory that the Shermans died in a murder-suicide.

www.thestar.com

February 10, 2023
''The local Toronto officers present were aware of the rash of break-ins. But as they looked around the Sherman’s 12,000-square-foot home there were no obvious signs that someone had looted the place. Officers quickly found both Sherman wallets (sources say Honey’s, containing $7,500, was in the kitchen near where she entered the home) and spotted the cash. They also noticed two iPads in the Shermans’ bedroom, Honey’s iPhone in a powder room she never used, and Barry’s BlackBerry on the basement floor near where he entered the house from the underground garage. The Star does not know where Barry’s wallet was. It contained $372, credit cards and loyalty cards.''

''Through a recent court hearing, the Star learned that police are seeking information in three countries that they hope will help them crack the case. Police have refused to identify the countries or reveal what they are seeking. The process, which requires contact between justice officials in Canada and the foreign countries could take a year or more, the Star has been told by police.''

''Even the Sherman home had been a target the previous year. Thieves went in through a skylight and took some valuables.
“That community was incredibly alarmed,” former Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders later told reporters. There was a community meeting less than two weeks before the Shermans died and police suggested neighbours band together and hire a security company to patrol the streets, and individuals purchase home security systems. One community leader told the Star there was “real pushback” from homeowners who did not want to fund private security and instead wanted police to step up patrols.

Why would police state they saw BS‘ phone on the floor when we have been led to understand that the realtor moved it along with BS papers and gloves to a shelf in the hallway? Is this another inconsistency in LE’s notes or it’s description of the crime scene?

 

[Cedars]

Why would police state they saw BS‘ phone on the floor when we have been led to understand that the realtor moved it along with BS papers and gloves to a shelf in the hallway? Is this another inconsistency in LE’s notes or it’s description of the crime scene?

IMO, the author of the article is trying to jazz up the narrative by using words like 'police saw'. They would have learned from the agent that she'd moved the phone, and so included its orginal location in their reconstruction of the crime.

JMO

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Why would police state they saw BS‘ phone on the floor when we have been led to understand that the realtor moved it along with BS papers and gloves to a shelf in the hallway? Is this another inconsistency in LE’s notes or it’s description of the crime scene?

Realtor ES found the home inspection and gloves, maybe she didn’t see the phone on the floor?

 

[AndrewM71]

Unless they don’t need help identifying the other person(s).

No, I fully considered that possibility. No need to conclude otherwise.

I can’t imagine a scenario in which they have identified one killer and have not made an arrest and/or identified the second killer. I see the very late plea for public help with the WM/NW as a desperate move from a police force which is not close to resolving this matter.

 

[ldlager]

Realtor ES found the home inspection and gloves, maybe she didn’t see the phone on the floor?

Hard to imagine 2 realtors and 2 clients would have stepped over a phone lying on the floor and not at least picked it up and put it out of the way so it wouldn’t be stepped on. Or maybe phones lying on the floor are now part of effective home staging? lol

 

[FromGermany1]

FWIW— photo of Shermans’ dumbwaiter. (Realtor photo from houssmax.com)
View attachment 449701


It was just a small dumbwaiter. Before the murders Kaelen’s fiancé’s father was working on it.

Oh, I understand! Didn't know, that such an "elevator" was meant.

 

[FromGermany1]

If there was an elevator, why was said, HS seldom went upstairs into the basement because of her Arthritis? She could have used the lift any time. (If I remember well, one journalist, who once interviewed her, said, HER home office was in the basement, in the corner of a room/corridor near the pool area, her desk overloaded with folders/files/papers.)

Of course, I meant "seldom went downstairs" (NOT upstairs).
It is too late for correction, but I barely can't endure to see my mistake. How embarrassing (always).

 

[WINDSOR]

Because at this late and desperate stage, I can’t imagine a scenario where they would release footage of one perpetrator and not the second.

The NW footage was only released by the TPS because they could not identify him and the TPS needed the public's help to identify him.

If the TPS already knows the identity of another person recorded while leaving the Sherman site, the TPS has no reason to make that video public.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Could the circled areas be where possible safes could have been? (If they had any?) And also noting the dumb waiter went to the top floor in what may have been Honey’s dressing room.
View attachment 449718

View attachment 449714

https://media.houssmax.ca/201711/29/5a1f32afd3797.pdf

I don’t understand what that area was behind Honey’s bed. It didn’t seem to be a support beam because it didn’t extend down to the main floor.
View attachment 449734

A couple of thoughts: the home was made of concrete and you need areas for plumbing, heating, water and wiring, I believe those voids are to bring these services from the basement to the main and top floor. They are solid black, IMO indicating non accessible non livable space?

Also for the dumb waiter, it is like an elevator and requires machinery to pull it up, I think inside the home upstairs that would be a wall and not usable space, I think that is what the X indicates in the square?

In no way am I an expert, my experiences are from when my Father built our home himself, I was the youngest and smallest so he had me do some wiring in tight spaces that others could not access because the spaces were not intended for living space.

 

[AndrewM71]

The NW footage was only released by the TPS because they could not identify him and the TPS needed the public's help to identify him.

If the TPS already knows the identity of another person recorded while leaving the Sherman site, the TPS has no reason to make that video public.

As I’ve already stated, in my opinion if they knew the identity of one person, they would be able to figure out the identity of the second person and/or arrest the first.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Of course, I meant "seldom went downstairs" (NOT upstairs).
It is too late for correction, but I barely can't endure to see my mistake. How embarrassing (always).

Please let yourself be human and not be embarrassed. We like reading your posts.

I think most of us have done the same. Myself I have done much more confusing mixing post responses up.

P.S. We understood what you were describing.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Did the killer happen to attend the community meeting 2 weeks prior to the murders, concerning hiring a security company to patrol after numerous break-ins in the area?
Lengthy article which also includes the pm pool sketch. rbbm, speculation, fwiw

Large amount of cash found in Honey and Barry Sherman’s wallets ruled out a break-in

When the discovery of money and portable valuables made a robbery seem unlikely, police formed a theory that the Shermans died in a murder-suicide.

www.thestar.com

February 10, 2023
''The local Toronto officers present were aware of the rash of break-ins. But as they looked around the Sherman’s 12,000-square-foot home there were no obvious signs that someone had looted the place. Officers quickly found both Sherman wallets (sources say Honey’s, containing $7,500, was in the kitchen near where she entered the home) and spotted the cash. They also noticed two iPads in the Shermans’ bedroom, Honey’s iPhone in a powder room she never used, and Barry’s BlackBerry on the basement floor near where he entered the house from the underground garage. The Star does not know where Barry’s wallet was. It contained $372, credit cards and loyalty cards.''

''Through a recent court hearing, the Star learned that police are seeking information in three countries that they hope will help them crack the case. Police have refused to identify the countries or reveal what they are seeking. The process, which requires contact between justice officials in Canada and the foreign countries could take a year or more, the Star has been told by police.''

''Even the Sherman home had been a target the previous year. Thieves went in through a skylight and took some valuables.
“That community was incredibly alarmed,” former Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders later told reporters. There was a community meeting less than two weeks before the Shermans died and police suggested neighbours band together and hire a security company to patrol the streets, and individuals purchase home security systems. One community leader told the Star there was “real pushback” from homeowners who did not want to fund private security and instead wanted police to step up patrols.

Re the last paragraph

'Even the Sherman home had been a target the previous year. Thieves went in through a skylight and took some valuables.
“That community was incredibly alarmed,” former Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders later told reporters. There was a community meeting less than two weeks before the Shermans died and police suggested neighbours band together and hire a security company to patrol the streets, and individuals purchase home security systems. One community leader told the Star there was “real pushback” from homeowners who did not want to fund private security and instead wanted police to step up patrols.

Did BS or HS attend this meeting? Do we know if they were yea or nay on this?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

To my understanding "mules" have no backs on them. Sling backs have no backs but are held onto heel by a strap. If HS was wearing mules and dragged backwards by her arms, those shoes would have fallen off. Sling backs would have the potential of also falling off, but might have stayed put. If she was dragged face down, the shoes would stay on, and toes would be scuffed.
Would she be wearing mules in the winter? Maybe if they were house shoes or she was using the garage.
Would mules have stayed on during a physical altercation? I doubt it.
Is that an alarm system top left corner of wall where floral display is in bedroom? If so, I wonder if it's wired to outdoor door, or a beam in bedroom?

I wondered the same about the little off white box in the crevice of the wall at ceiling. reminds me of a motion detector box.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Why would police state they saw BS‘ phone on the floor when we have been led to understand that the realtor moved it along with BS papers and gloves to a shelf in the hallway? Is this another inconsistency in LE’s notes or it’s description of the crime scene?

I have only read gloves and envelope on the floor at the entry from garage. Later heard it was on floor somewhere on lower level, even read/heard it was in the pool room.

To date I have not seen any facts released regarding his phone other than it was a blackberry And found on scene.

 

[dotr]

Re the last paragraph

'Even the Sherman home had been a target the previous year. Thieves went in through a skylight and took some valuables.
“That community was incredibly alarmed,” former Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders later told reporters. There was a community meeting less than two weeks before the Shermans died and police suggested neighbours band together and hire a security company to patrol the streets, and individuals purchase home security systems. One community leader told the Star there was “real pushback” from homeowners who did not want to fund private security and instead wanted police to step up patrols.

Did BS or HS attend this meeting? Do we know if they were yea or nay on this?

Guessing that they did not attend the meeting, but who knows? speculation, imo.
December 5, 2017 rbbm.

Community meeting held after about 160 break-and-enters in Bridle Path area

A community safety meeting was held in North York’s Bridle Path area to address about 160 break-and-enters that led to millions of dollars’ worth of valuables stolen since the beginning of the year.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

''Ahead of the meeting, spokesperson for the York Mills Gardens Community Association Alex Greco told CTV News Toronto that community members need to come together in an effort to prevent these thefts.

“I think there are a lot of savvy burglars in our neighbourhood and they have found a way – probably watching when people are leaving, coming and going and they pick the right time,” he said.

Greco said neighbours should be talking to each other about seeing anything suspicious nearby.

“If they see suspicious activity then the police can get a heads up, other residents can get a heads up and then from there we can address the problem before it’s too late.”

''Speaking with CTV News Toronto back in October, Det. Const. Janna Senyk said suspects are entering these homes on the second floor as that's where homes are most likely not equipped with alarms.

She added that one of the targeted homes on the Bridle Path was gated but the suspects were able to gain entry on the second floor by possibly using a ladder. ''

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I have only read gloves and envelope on the floor at the entry from garage. Later heard it was on floor somewhere on lower level, even read/heard it was in the pool room.

To date I have not seen any facts released regarding his phone other than it was a blackberry And found on scene.

KD first wrote about it being ‘nearby’ Barry, but more recently reported it was found on the floor of the home close to the garage entrance.

 

[dotr]

KD first wrote about it being ‘nearby’ Barry, but more recently reported it was found on the floor of the home close to the garage entrance.

2020 rbbm

Lawyers for Ontario, Apotex struck deal on what detectives could access in Sherman murder investigation. It took one month

Documents unsealed by a judge last week reveal details of legal wrangling that took place over what detectives could access in their investigation of the murders of Honey and Barry Sherman.

www.thestar.com

''Barry’s BlackBerry is discovered nearby, and his office computer and cluttered desk are surely awash with clues.
But hold on. Due to a protocol hammered out by government lawyers and counsel for the late Barry Sherman’s firm Apotex, you cannot look at any of this information until lawyers for the generic drug giant decide what police can and cannot see due to legal privilege concerns.
Police were told that if they spotted something — perhaps a sticky note on Sherman’s desk, a cancelled appointment in his calendar, the time of his last phone call — they were forbidden to act on the information until the lawyers give the green light.''

 

[hexicon]

Lexi, thanks for your post about the safes. This ties into two questions I have been thinking about. The following is solely my speculation.

1. What is the likelihood that the Sherman household would keep large sums of cash at home (e.g., in a safe or hiding place)?
2. What is the likelihood that the Shermans or someone in their family would consult a private security firm?

To me, these questions are relevant to how a hitman might have been hired and how they could have been paid without much of paper trail.

1. Cash in safe. Honey was the child of Holocaust survivors and both sets of Barry's grandparents had been driven out of Russia/Poland by anti-Jewish pogroms. Additionally, wealthy people may be targeted for kidnap attempts and similar extortion schemes. When I put these facts together, it seems possible to me that Barry and Honey might have kept considerable cash on hand for unrest, flight, ransom, bribes, etc. (I am not implying that B&H would bribe officials in the course of business, for example, but I'm picturing a somewhat far-fetched risk such as a child on vacation abroad getting into trouble, etc.) I'm thinking of a much larger sum than what Honey had in her wallet. More like hundreds of thousands or even millions. If assembled over years, this sum might not trigger a paper trail. It also seems possible that the Shermans would share information about this cache with close family members for the unlikely event of these types of emergencies. And given the means of this family, that stash might not seem like a remarkable sum. I'm also keeping in mind how Barry seemed to involve Jonathon in his business/foundation dealings to the exclusion of the daughters, and also Barry's sexist remarks about how women are too emotional for business.

2. Security consulting. For persons of their means, Barry and Honey seemed laissez-faire about home security, but it doesn't mean they didn't care at all. I would like to know whether they or Apotex worked with a security/intelligence consultant, or whether any of their children did so before their parents' murder. As above, if you are wealthy or high-profile you're much more likely to be targeted by someone with bad intent.

And by security consultant I am talking about the sophisticated firms that help wealthy people assess and monitor (and possibly neutralize?) potential threats. For example, to protect the Sherman children after their parents' murder, Jonathon brought in a security firm that employed ex-IDF/Mossad types. Some of these businesses have rather sinister reputations, such as the Black Cube firm hired by Harvey Weinstein to smear his accusers, or Blackwater/Constellis. If I am a high-wealth individual who has a relationship with this kind of entity, it seems like that's where I might find a resource who could refer me to a hit man.

Again, this is solely my speculation about how a hit man could be found and how they could be paid without leaving a record of financial transactions. MOO!