Need more coffee to read faster, not finding the appropriate supportive statement so far, but thanks for the vote of confidence.
If i was male my moniker would be sotr, not dotr, lol!
CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #22
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If i was male my moniker would be sotr, not dotr, lol!
To my knowledge, the trust agreement covering the Shechtman Family Trust has not been made public so we know nothing about the terms of that agreement. IMO, it is likely that the trust owned most or all of the 17 properties. HS had faith in MS’s real estate abilities and so it was not unusual for her to have MS involved in the sale of 50 OC. It is also possible and highly likely IMO that some years ago HS encouraged BS to “give” some money to MS so she could invest in houses. IMO, Barry did not generally give money away and he liked to retain security over his capital. It would seem reasonable, but we don’t know, that the Shechtman Trust was set up in a way for BS to get his capital back along with a decent return. IIRC, MS was a trustee of the Schechtman Family Trust however we know nothing about the beneficiaries of the trust. The trust agreement would have contained terms relating to how funds could be removed from the trust and I suspect that these terms could have been very restrictive and that MS could not unilaterally withdraw funds. So when MS was crying poor, it may be related to the fact that she didn’t have access to the funds in the trust. All speculation, of course.I don’t know. People die - and are murdered - and 99.999% of the time family members fly on normal commercial flights to get there.
Also, when people die, it’s not like their wealth goes immediately to beneficiaries. Why should the kids be responsible for their aunt’s private jet flight? Did JK take a private jet from NYC? I doubt it. And I’m sure he would be responsible for his own fare regardless. MS’s conduct seems a bit presumptuous. Maybe assuming a lot of wealth was now coming to her? MOO
Also, it’s hard to feel sorry for MS in her well-appointed Forest Hill home. Forest Hill is one of the most well-heeled neighborhoods in Toronto. This link shows 35 Forest Hill real estate listings *starting* at CAD$2.4M:
Toronto Real Estate for Sale | Zoocasa
View real estate listings and photos of 4,430 homes and properties listed for sale in Toronto, Ontario. Find the perfect Toronto house, condo, townhouse for sale.www.zoocasa.com
I feel for MS due to her loss. And due to her loss re her “expectations”. But it seems she is still solidly in the top .05% (didn’t KD also say she owns 17 properties??). I don’t think she does herself any favours by complaining about her lack of curtains. MOO
Haha I wondered about the assumption you are male. Thanks for your encyclopedic mind and efforts.
If the matter is being litigated, it is possible to obtain the court file. It may or may not include the trust deed at this point. It will definitely include the allegations made.
Just saying that it is possible to obtain this.
FromGermany1
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bbm
Perhaps they are still missing a Chevrolet Avalanche .....
I was told by someone who lived in the same building as MS in Florida, the concierge at the building were trying to help her get a flight. As was everyone who knew her. She was a complete mess according to this person.
They couldn’t find a flight out unless there were stop overs. She was in no condition to start getting on and off planes.
It was other people who suggested she get a flight out privately.
Maybe the daughter was in no rush go get back.
Seems to me she like to put as much distance as possible between herself and her siblings.
That was also evident at the funeral.
I think the curtains thing was an attempt at dark humour.
FromGermany1
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One family member who has been completely shut out is Mary Shechtman, Honey’s sister and best friend, who had hoped to play an important role in the Sherman philanthropy. A comment she made following the murders, that Honey promised her a $300 million gift (she told me it was really $500 million but she decided to give the lower figure), upset the four Sherman children. Mary said she believes the real root of the rift was another comment she made — “I am the oldest surviving member of my family, I am too young to be a matriarch.” Regardless, she has no say in the Sherman charities, despite Jonathon’s comment in his eulogy that he wanted “Aunt Mary” to guide the charitable works “in a way that best honours our parents.”
Many lined up at the ‘Bank of Barry’ Sherman: Inside the $10 billion succession battle
Jonathon Sherman, wearing a boxy black suit and narrow tie, separated from his three sisters and crossed the floor of the convention centre-turned funeral home, walking stone-faced toward a row
IMO, a gift is a gift and is not the inheritance, therefore it would have been paid before death and not after. So, MS would have been able to purchase curtains before Honey's death, if not a double murder had occured. And she could have participated in Sherman's charity, if everything had gone normal, maybe. Although I can't imagine, how she would have done this: giving away Barry's hard earned money and putting it under her own name with HER name on display on schools or hospitals?? Maybe, that is charity also, Idk.
If HS had lived and her gift of money to her sister was given, wondering if it would have been all gobbled up by lawsuits( i do not understand the point/disagreement) instigated by MS's son? speculation, imo.bbm
One family member who has been completely shut out is Mary Shechtman, Honey’s sister and best friend, who had hoped to play an important role in the Sherman philanthropy. A comment she made following the murders, that Honey promised her a $300 million gift (she told me it was really $500 million but she decided to give the lower figure), upset the four Sherman children. Mary said she believes the real root of the rift was another comment she made — “I am the oldest surviving member of my family, I am too young to be a matriarch.” Regardless, she has no say in the Sherman charities, despite Jonathon’s comment in his eulogy that he wanted “Aunt Mary” to guide the charitable works “in a way that best honours our parents.”
-.-.-Many lined up at the ‘Bank of Barry’ Sherman: Inside the $10 billion succession battle
Jonathon Sherman, wearing a boxy black suit and narrow tie, separated from his three sisters and crossed the floor of the convention centre-turned funeral home, walking stone-faced toward a rowwww.toronto.com
IMO, a gift is a gift and is not the inheritance, therefore it would have been paid before death and not after. So, MS would have been able to purchase curtains before Honey's death, if not a double murder had occured. And she could have participated in Sherman's charity, if everything had gone normal, maybe. Although I can't imagine, how she would have done this: giving away Barry's hard earned money and putting it under her own name with HER name on display on schools or hospitals?? Maybe, that is charity also, Idk.
Updated 2023
Many lined up at the ‘Bank of Barry’ Sherman: Inside the $10 billion succession battle
Jonathon Sherman, wearing a boxy black suit and narrow tie, separated from his three sisters and crossed the floor of the convention centre-turned funeral home, walking stone-faced toward a row
Mary’s spending habits were mentioned in passing in the police search warrant-documents released following a Star court challenge. Honey’s assistant was quoted as telling police that while Honey never spent much money on her credit card “it was Mary who spent a lot of money at U.S. Saks and Barry was never to see those bills.”
.........
''One filing in the court action Mary’s son Noah has against his mother and father provides a tiny snapshot of the widespread use of the “Bank of Barry,” or, in this case, the Bank of Honey.
In October 2017, two months before the murders, Noah was in Florida with his husband and he emailed his Aunt Honey saying he wanted to buy new clothes. Honey was travelling in San Francisco.''
“You and I already discussed (and) you aren’t allowed to make any further purchases on the card without my approval,” Mary told Noah, instructing him to return some items he had previously purchased. She went on to say she did not understand why he was making more purchases when he had “$10,000 worth of unworn shoes” upstairs in his bedroom at Mary’s Forest Hill home.''
Sorry, no offence intended, no way to know!
The reference that I recall was made during the flurry of recent discussions around whether HS actually had a Will. It may have been in the Crave series, I just can’t remember.
Not offended!
In this 2019 article there is a suggestion/speculation by HS's close friends that the amendment made to HS's will, might be to include the new baby , or the monetary gift to MS, imo, speculation.
2019 rbbm
Honey Sherman had a will she updated shortly before billionaire couple slain, confidant reveals
Close confidant of Honey Sherman told police the billionaire philanthropist spoke of making changes to her will in the weeks before the murders.
It’s an important piece of information from the now two-year-old case because of the persistent mystery over whether or not Honey had a will. According to friends and family members, no will belonging to Honey was found following the murders. The billionaire couple were found dead in their Toronto home on Friday, Dec. 15, 2017.
A close confidant of Honey’s recently told the Star that in mid- to late November 2017, Honey mentioned she had just “updated” her will.
''According to comments made by Honey before she died, she did have a will.''
''Roughly a week after the Nov. 13, 2017, birth of the Sherman couple’s third grandchild, Honey told one of her confidants she had just that day “updated” her will at a lawyer’s office.
“Honey and I were talking and she said meet me at Yonge and St. Clair Avenue. She said she was just coming from her lawyer’s office and she had just updated her will. She had done some amendments,” the confidant told the Star. “Honey said she wanted me to first go with her to Loblaws to get those frozen croissants from Ace Bakery that she liked, then we would go to her home.”
''Nor did Honey mention to the service provider what changes she was making or had made. The Star has spoken to some of Honey’s close friends in light of this new information and they say it is possible Honey was simply adding the new grandchild as a beneficiary. Or, they speculate, it was a more significant amendment. The Star has previously reported that around this time, both Barry and Honey were discussing Barry giving Honey a significant amount of money — as much as $500 million — and that in the wake of the murders, Honey’s sister Mary Shechtman told the Shermans’ children that some of that money was earmarked for her. ''
To me, none of that suggests that the money, once H had received it from her husband, was going to be bequeathed to MS (after H's eventual death, which...... could have potentially been many years away if she had not been murdered). As far as I can understand from the above, it is all about what MS (and perhaps others after having been told by MS and perhaps also by HS(?)) was expecting to receive as a gift in the near future (while H was still alive) as at the time of the murders. jmo.Not offended!
In this 2019 article there is a suggestion/speculation by HS's close friends that the amendment made to HS's will, might be to include the new baby , or the monetary gift to MS, imo, speculation.
2019 rbbm
''Honey Sherman said she had a will and had made changes to it three weeks before she and husband Barry Sherman were murdered, a confidant of Honey’s told Toronto police detectives in the early days of the investigation.Honey Sherman had a will she updated shortly before billionaire couple slain, confidant reveals
Close confidant of Honey Sherman told police the billionaire philanthropist spoke of making changes to her will in the weeks before the murders.www.thestar.com
It’s an important piece of information from the now two-year-old case because of the persistent mystery over whether or not Honey had a will. According to friends and family members, no will belonging to Honey was found following the murders. The billionaire couple were found dead in their Toronto home on Friday, Dec. 15, 2017.
A close confidant of Honey’s recently told the Star that in mid- to late November 2017, Honey mentioned she had just “updated” her will.
''According to comments made by Honey before she died, she did have a will.''
''Roughly a week after the Nov. 13, 2017, birth of the Sherman couple’s third grandchild, Honey told one of her confidants she had just that day “updated” her will at a lawyer’s office.
“Honey and I were talking and she said meet me at Yonge and St. Clair Avenue. She said she was just coming from her lawyer’s office and she had just updated her will. She had done some amendments,” the confidant told the Star. “Honey said she wanted me to first go with her to Loblaws to get those frozen croissants from Ace Bakery that she liked, then we would go to her home.”
''Nor did Honey mention to the service provider what changes she was making or had made. The Star has spoken to some of Honey’s close friends in light of this new information and they say it is possible Honey was simply adding the new grandchild as a beneficiary. Or, they speculate, it was a more significant amendment. The Star has previously reported that around this time, both Barry and Honey were discussing Barry giving Honey a significant amount of money — as much as $500 million — and that in the wake of the murders, Honey’s sister Mary Shechtman told the Shermans’ children that some of that money was earmarked for her. ''
Agree, it is speculation that MS would be included in the will, wondering if the money gift really would have been given to her if not for the murders, imo.
Lexiintoronto
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Here’s what I understand of the money. KD’s sources told him Barry was going to gift Honey between $100-$500 million at the time of their deaths. His sources also told him Honey was going to give Mary some of that money. Barry didn’t like that, but he said it would be Honey’s money and she could do whatever she wanted to do with it.
From KD’s book:
Mary told KD that Honey was going to give her $500 million. On the day the bodies were found, and going forward, Mary told the heirs and KD that Honey promised to give her $300 million. She said she decided to ask them for less.
“One family member who has been completely shut out is Mary Shechtman, Honey’s sister and best friend, who had hoped to play an important role in the Sherman philanthropy. A comment she made following the murders, that Honey promised her a $300 million gift (she told me it was really $500 million but she decided to give the lower figure), upset the four Sherman children.”
IMO, neither amount sounds plausible. I think it’s more likely that Honey would have put a much smaller amount into a trust and Mary could then use the proceeds.
I believe that because Honey had set up the Shechtman trust in 2000 that included 17 properties. Honey and Barry contributed to that trust and Mary and her husband benefited from the proceeds. Son Noah Shechtman is suing Mary and her husband to gain access to it saying Honey set it up for him and his siblings, and Mary’s claim is that Honey didn’t specify that the trust was for the children. Quote from CBC podcast:
The quote above also makes me wonder why Mary was crying poverty after the murders: she had access to that sizeable trust and the court records indicate she and her husband used it. Why the push for an additional $300 million from the heirs? Why tell everyone about it mere hours after Honey and Barry’s bodies were found? From KD’s book:
When the heirs declined paying her $300 million, she claimed Barry owed her money:
“Recently, in her basement, she discovered an IOU Barry wrote to her mother in the 1970s for monies advanced when he was starting out in business. It is an IOU she has not been able to collect on.”
Mary told KD about estate and trust fund lawyer DH and his connection to Barry and Honey. One theory KD had about Honey and Barry being involved DH prior to the murders was that he was part of setting up the transfer of money from Barry to Honey.
It’s just my opinion, but I think the lawyer would have been involved in any transfer of money between Honey to Mary, based on how the 2000 trust was set up. Mary has told KD that Honey was going to give her $500 million, but is surprisingly silent about the details on how that was going to be done or where the money was coming from. It just doesn’t make sense, imo.
Just like the movie title. “There’s Something About Mary”…..
Here’s what I understand of the money. KD’s sources told him Barry was going to gift Honey between $100-$500 million at the time of their deaths. His sources also told him Honey was going to give Mary some of that money. Barry didn’t like that, but he said it would be Honey’s money and she could do whatever she wanted to do with it.
From KD’s book:
View attachment 436616View attachment 436617
Mary told KD that Honey was going to give her $500 million. On the day the bodies were found, and going forward, Mary told the heirs and KD that Honey promised to give her $300 million. She said she decided to ask them for less.
“One family member who has been completely shut out is Mary Shechtman, Honey’s sister and best friend, who had hoped to play an important role in the Sherman philanthropy. A comment she made following the murders, that Honey promised her a $300 million gift (she told me it was really $500 million but she decided to give the lower figure), upset the four Sherman children.”
IMO, neither amount sounds plausible. I think it’s more likely that Honey would have put a much smaller amount into a trust and Mary could then use the proceeds.
I believe that because Honey had set up the Shechtman trust in 2000 that included 17 properties. Honey and Barry contributed to that trust and Mary and her husband benefited from the proceeds. Son Noah Shechtman is suing Mary and her husband to gain access to it saying Honey set it up for him and his siblings, and Mary’s claim is that Honey didn’t specify that the trust was for the children. Quote from CBC podcast:
The quote above also makes me wonder why Mary was crying poverty after the murders: she had access to that sizeable trust and the court records indicate she and her husband used it. Why the push for an additional $300 million from the heirs? Why tell everyone about it mere hours after Honey and Barry’s bodies were found? From KD’s book:
View attachment 436630
When the heirs declined paying her $300 million, she claimed Barry owed her money:
“Recently, in her basement, she discovered an IOU Barry wrote to her mother in the 1970s for monies advanced when he was starting out in business. It is an IOU she has not been able to collect on.”
Mary told KD about estate and trust fund lawyer DH and his connection to Barry and Honey. One theory KD had about Honey and Barry being involved DH prior to the murders was that he was part of setting up the transfer of money from Barry to Honey.
It’s just my opinion, but I think the lawyer would have been involved in any transfer of money between Honey to Mary, based on how the 2000 trust was set up. Mary has told KD that Honey was going to give her $500 million, but is surprisingly silent about the details on how that was going to be done or where the money was coming from. It just doesn’t make sense, imo.
MerlinFalcon
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Even without this knowledge I don't fault her for taking a private plane. I also agree about the daughter not being in a rush to get home although if I was a very rich person I would be looking to get home asap including chartering a private plane, actually preferring private. It's a drop in the bucket for them even though they have a strange aversion to flying business class.
The info about the flights seems difficult to reconcile IMO. Pre COVID there were at least 15 direct commercial flights to Toronto from Miami and surrounding airports every day. Also i doubt these flights were anywhere close to full- how many people fly AWAY from Florida to Toronto one week before Christmas? And Was her husband not capable of booking a flight?
in any event, she evidently chartered a plane at BS expense as a final grab of BS’ money. I think the Sherman children being upset at her actions, both the flight and her actions, claims and and behaviour at the family meeting at AK’s house says alot. Moo
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If this ever gets solved it will be interesting to see how they made such an assessment2021
''One year into the Barry and Honey Sherman murder investigation, a bombshell: Toronto Police believed it was possible the murderer or murderers were stalking the billionaire couple a month or more before they were killed, search warrant documents reveal.''
Barry and Honey Sherman may have been under ‘surveillance’ a month before their murders, homicide detectives believe
Documents show police sought cellphone data for dozens of ‘persons of interest,’ and confirm Barry Sherman had been ‘restrained at the wrist.’
based on absolutely no data at all besides common sense I cannot imagine a scenario where Mary would get hundreds of millions just transferred to her. Strikes me as being everything that someone like Barry would have abhorred and disallowed. But I bet Honey was generous with her over the years and it can’t be fun after the money tree gets chopped down.bbm
One family member who has been completely shut out is Mary Shechtman, Honey’s sister and best friend, who had hoped to play an important role in the Sherman philanthropy. A comment she made following the murders, that Honey promised her a $300 million gift (she told me it was really $500 million but she decided to give the lower figure), upset the four Sherman children. Mary said she believes the real root of the rift was another comment she made — “I am the oldest surviving member of my family, I am too young to be a matriarch.” Regardless, she has no say in the Sherman charities, despite Jonathon’s comment in his eulogy that he wanted “Aunt Mary” to guide the charitable works “in a way that best honours our parents.”
-.-.-Many lined up at the ‘Bank of Barry’ Sherman: Inside the $10 billion succession battle
Jonathon Sherman, wearing a boxy black suit and narrow tie, separated from his three sisters and crossed the floor of the convention centre-turned funeral home, walking stone-faced toward a row
IMO, a gift is a gift and is not the inheritance, therefore it would have been paid before death and not after. So, MS would have been able to purchase curtains before Honey's death, if not a double murder had occured. And she could have participated in Sherman's charity, if everything had gone normal, maybe. Although I can't imagine, how she would have done this: giving away Barry's hard earned money and putting it under her own name with HER name on display on schools or hospitals?? Maybe, that is charity also, Idk.
FromGermany1
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HS was 70 yo and should have been gifted $500 mill from her husband of many years and done so to her the first time in her life, afaik. Why did Honey plan, this money, which she never had at her disposal before, to give away to her greedy sister? Which money exactly would Honey have used for the financing of her future dream mansion, which was said would be in her name?
Lexiintoronto
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CANADA - Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #21
I’ve had that impression based on the attention to detail in how the bodies were staged and how Honey suffered an injury to her face. Honey seemed to be treated with less respect compared to Barry during and after the crime. It seems like something a spiteful female would do to another female...
www.websleuths.com
Ldlger is right:
I was listening to episode 2 of KD’s podcast that featured JS’s words. At about the 33:00 minute mark he said that JS suspects three people are involved: Jack Kay, Frank D. and a third person KD didn’t want to name (I think it’s AG, imo).
KD said he didn’t think that any of the three were involved in the murders.
The Bodies
Hosted by Kevin Donovan, this is episode two of the podcast series “The Billionaire Murders: The hunt for the killers of Honey and Barry Sherman.”
So, KD now in total he has said he doesn’t believe JK, FDA, KW and a fourth person (AG, imo) are involved.
He said that the police have information about three people redacted in the court documents: he believes they are JS, FDA & KW.
Another thing at around the 32:00 minute mark in the podcast linked above, JS told KD that he had ‘bombshell information’ about the case and had documents for the police. He said it took Det. Brandon Price six months to go to his house to pick up the papers. It’s frustrating to hear that the police possibly dragged their feet again, but my question would be why JS didn’t drop off or send the documents via his lawyer or PI? Why accept a six-month delay?
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