CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #23

[WINDSOR]

I am not sure if facial recognition software will be useful in this case. Police already know who everybody is, with the exception of the Night Walker. Even if they can digitally scan the pictures that exist of him, what will they compare it to?
They could compare it with the Passport photos of all Canadians, which are already on file. As well they could compare it with passport photos of all people who arrived or left Canada, through border crossings a year before or after the Sherman's deaths. (Assuming that that the Border crossings retain the photos). Of course there may be Privacy issues, and Charter issues in doing such a broad search. If law enforcement needs a court order from a judge to do this, how could they convince the judge, that comparing millions of photos to the Night Walker is just not a 'fishing excursion'.

On the surface it looks like a huge amount of computer processing and human management of the process would be required. Does law enforcement have the budget for a project such as this?

I think law enforcement should try to do it, but there will be roadblocks. The biggest one, is the ability to get a good scan from the pictures that the TPS has of the Night Walker.

If the Night Walker crossed illegally in and out of Canada, there will be no passport records to compare.

 

[WINDSOR]

I am embarrassed when I post something, and the thread goes dead for days.

I was hoping that someone who would have experience with facial recognition software, might comment on the quality of image required of the Night Walker, to do an effective scan, and start the comparison process.

Secondly does anybody know how long the passport images are retained at border crossings, if at all?

Thanks

 

[dotr]

I am embarrassed when I post something, and the thread goes dead for days.

I was hoping that someone who would have experience with facial recognition software, might comment on the quality of image required of the Night Walker, to do an effective scan, and start the comparison process.

Secondly does anybody know how long the passport images are retained at border crossings, if at all?

Thanks

1. Don't be embarrassed Windsor, meant to respond as i am sure others did and got distracted (Lisk case), snippets for now, fwiw.

2. How the CBSA collects, uses and protects your information

   Details about the collection, use and protection of traveller information at the border.

   www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca
3. ''Biometric data: At major international airports, the CBSA uses biometrics to confirm a traveller's identity by collecting their photo and matching it with the photo in their electronic passport. At certain Canadian ports of entry, the CBSA may collect biometric information, such as fingerprints and photographs for specific types of visas and permits, as part of border security and for immigration processes.''

rbbm

How Toronto police used controversial facial recognition technology to solve the senseless murder of an innocent man

No witnesses. No DNA. No motive. An innocent victim. How to solve the murder of Nnamdi Ogba?

www.thestar.com

''The Ogba case underscores that technology’s potential, particularly for cracking such a notoriously difficult-to-solve investigation as an apparent stranger-on-stranger shooting without DNA, fingerprints or eyewitnesses. The case also highlights the facial recognition is an inexact process, one that initially yielded two correct suspect matches — and one that wasn’t.
Although the police use of the software wasn’t contested at trial, “I think we did a good job at articulating the limits of where it could take us,” Shankaran said in an interview. The “potential candidates” the tool find are treated as one would a Crime Stoppers tip or confidential source, he notes.''

 

[newclues]

Since this technology was being used by LE in 2018, it is most probable that they tried it regarding the NW and came up empty since they later appealed to the public for help. Here is another tool which LE probably may have also looked into since the NW had a distinctive gait: The Tell-Tale Steps - Blue Line

 

[Fight4justice]

I also think the pool room would have ventilation and cover any smell protruding through the home.

Have also thought shame, hiding them deep in the basement where few people go.

I think, in my opinion, the pool room was used for many reasons. You had to know where the security button was to open door. Any inclosed, indoor pool that I have experienced has a tropical atmosphere therefore speeds up decomposition. It would take longer to locate bodies. Also the suspect would had to of known that the Sherman’s were not expecting anyone that night, like an agent showing the house to a prospective buyer that had a heavy schedule therefore only available at night. They had to of known that there were no inside surveillance cameras inside the home. Also another thing that kind of bothers me is the home alarm system. If the entire home was equipped with the alarm including doors and windows, then the alarm would not set if there were an exterior door or window open. There has been mentioned that a window was left open to a recently painted room. If so then the window was not equipped with a alarm sensor or the alarm would not have set when HS set it to leave that afternoon. Did the suspect have prior knowledge as to what areas of the home were actually equipped with sensors. Did the suspect know prior that a window was to be left open? So many different angles to look at as well as possible suspects.

 

[Fight4justice]

The 50-60 amount has always been curious to me. Why a range, why not a specific amount and why not the total 125 mil JS said BS “gave” him. I have always wondered why JS kept the extra cash, why not return it (I am assuming no payments required to keep it) I am theorizing that JS may have used the cash lying around for something BS did not approve himself or was not privy to details about. Again theoretically he may have asked for that amount back as he thought it was not used and had been surprised that JS and AP did not have it and said fine go get mortgages and get it for me.

I could easily imagine internal anger, BS wants son to return 50-60 mil and Mom gets to spend 30 mil on a new home. Ouch.

Exactly what I thought. Dad is demanding he take out mortgages for 50 to 60 million at the same time mom is spending a cool 30 million on a house. And if I’m not mistaken dad also around the same time bought a company for 50 million with plans to invest 50 million in that company while demanding he take out mortgages. Also need to consider that he wasn’t the biological child of HS. BS stated this many times that she only had one biological child and the others were his. Might explain why she also had to die. She wasn’t exactly thrilled about his lifestyle choices or his marriage. He evidently did not go to her for the surrogacy money. He went to dad. You would think he would go to the one with the maternal instincts, especially becoming a grandmother. So how did she really feel about it? Also, if he died first then she became the heir, and once again you have the fact that he is not her biological son therefore the grandchildren are not her biological grandchildren. Was there a threat in the past to cut him off if daddy ever died? Might hold clues to why both had to die and her will not found. Maybe scared that the coroner might say he died first and then her will would have taken affect. Makes you wonder just what was in her will. I also find it hard to believe that her attorney did not have a copy of that said will. All my opinion only.

 

[fadedglitter]

Honey did not have a will. That is a legal fact.

She may have had a document she called a will that wasn’t legally a will. Or a will that was finalized but not signed.

 

[dotr]

Jan 15 2024

Honey Sherman’s family members sue for part of Barry Sherman’s billions

Honey Sherman’s niece and nephew sue the Barry Sherman 2016 trust seeking an accounting and part of a trust he created the year before the billionaire was murdered

www.thestar.com

''A Honey Sherman will was never found, though a confidante of Honey’s told the Star that Honey was updating her will in the weeks before her death. The lawsuit does not explain whether the estimated $500 million is still in trust or has been distributed.''
Updated 2023

Honey Sherman would have controlled the ‘net income’ of husband Barry’s multibillion-dollar fortune had she lived, sources reveal

Barry Sherman’s will decreed that if he died, all “net income” from his multibillion-dollar estate would go to wife Honey for her “comfort and maintenance” and “anything else my wife

www.toronto.com

''Barry Sherman’s will decreed that if he died, all “net income” from his multibillion-dollar estate would go to wife Honey for her “comfort and maintenance” and “anything else my wife directs,” according to new information the Star has obtained in its ongoing investigation of the 2017 double murder of the high-powered philanthropists.

Honey would not control “capital” decisions, such as whether to invest in or sell shares or a major asset. Still, all the net income after expenses from the operation of businesses like the generic drug giant Apotex or her husband’s many real estate holdings would be hers to do with as she pleased.''
2018

Where is Honey Sherman’s will?

A year after Barry and Honey Sherman were murdered in their Toronto home, a court-ordered veil of secrecy shrouds details of the billionaire couple’s estate as the search for their killers continues — and Honey’s will, if it even exists, remains undiscovered.

www.thestar.com

''In the weeks following the discovery of Honey and Barry Sherman’s bodies last December, there was a vigorous search for an important document — Honey Sherman’s will.
No one reported being given it for safekeeping, and when police returned access to the family home where the billionaire couple was murdered, no last will and testament of hers was discovered.''

 

[ldlager]

Honey did not have a will. That is a legal fact.

She may have had a document she called a will that wasn’t legally a will. Or a will that was finalized but not signed.

I disagree. She may have had a perfectly legal will.
Instead I would phrase it that No legal will for HS has been located.

 

[WINDSOR]

I disagree. She may have had a perfectly legal will.
Instead I would phrase it that No legal will for HS has been located.

At this point in time it really does not matter if Honey had a will or not. (My opinion is that she did not.) The estate has been settled, Apotex has been sold, the Old Colony Rd. home has been demolished. Too late, I believe to change anything.

 

[ldlager]

At this point in time it really does not matter if Honey had a will or not. (My opinion is that she did not.) The estate has been settled, Apotex has been sold, the Old Colony Rd. home has been demolished. Too late, I believe to change anything.

Legally perhaps. But what if a legitimate Will was in fact located today? The contents of it would be extremely interesting to LE I am sure, depending on who was left what, and who was excluded from being a beneficiary. Moo

 

[WINDSOR]

Legally perhaps. But what if a legitimate Will was in fact located today? The contents of it would be extremely interesting to LE I am sure, depending on who was left what, and who was excluded from being a beneficiary. Moo

Okay, hypothetically, a Will is found, and everything is left to Barry, and if Barry is deceased, everything goes to her sister Mary; or everything goes to Charities; or some combination of the two.

What could the TPS or anybody infer from that?
What if the Will was an exact copy of Barry's, with the bequests exactly the same?

I do not think the existence or not of Honey's will has little or no bearing on the Sherman's deaths.
IMO

 

[ldlager]

Okay, hypothetically, a Will is found, and everything is left to Barry, and if Barry is deceased, everything goes to her sister Mary; or everything goes to Charities; or some combination of the two.

What could the TPS or anybody infer from that?
What if the Will was an exact copy of Barry's, with the bequests exactly the same?

I do not think the existence or not of Honey's will has little or no bearing on the Sherman's deaths.

 

[FromGermany1]

Okay, hypothetically, a Will is found, and everything is left to Barry, and if Barry is deceased, everything goes to her sister Mary; or everything goes to Charities; or some combination of the two.

What could the TPS or anybody infer from that?
What if the Will was an exact copy of Barry's, with the bequests exactly the same?

I do not think the existence or not of Honey's will has little or no bearing on the Sherman's deaths.
IMO

IMO, H and B were never so in agreement, that Honey would have written exactly the same LW as Barry.

Your last sentence I can't understand, even with translation by Google. Please say it once more with other words; stupid me would be thankful!

 

[ldlager]

I suspect that that no family member (except maybe HS) knew the specific provisions of BS Will before he died. Barry left hid estate assets to the kids after the death of HS, with the anssets to be held and the income and proceeds from the estate would be used by HS as she saw fit (I am paraphrasing from memory).
What if a particular child of the Sherman’s assumed that BS would leave everything to HS in his Will. And what if the same child suspected that HS had prepared her Will to leave that particular child with nothing in her Will? Or that HS leave everything to MS? Or the UJA? Or another party?
I think LE would be very interested in that, and whether that could be seen as motive to commit murder.
I think HS Will is of keen interest to LE. If it wasn’t, why did they even bother trying to locate it? MOO

 

[newclues]

Wouldn't important changes in their lives like their new house and grandchild could have potentially needed some changes made to their will? HS also appeared to be behind much of the donating of money to different charities and the helping of her sister MS and her family while she was alive. Who has/have benefitted the most from their deaths?

 

[WINDSOR]

IMO, H and B were never so in agreement, that Honey would have written exactly the same LW as Barry.

Your last sentence I can't understand, even with translation by Google. Please say it once more with other words; stupid me would be thankful!

My last sentence was:
"I do not think the existence or not of Honey's will has little or no bearing on the Sherman's deaths.
IMO"
What I believe is, The people who wanted Barry and Honey dead and actually killed them, were not concerned at all with Honey's will, if one even existed. Why?

Some possibilities, the Perpetrators of the crime,

• Knew Barry had a will and what was in it (that would likely be only a few people)
• Knew Honey had no will, (that would likely be only a few people)
• Knew that if Honey pre-deceased Barry, that Barry's estate would bypass Honey and directly to the heirs.

Who would know what was in Barry's will. Here are some possibilities.
Lawyers. Apotex and Barry's Holding Companies senior executives. Some or all of the trustees of the estate. Some or all of the heirs.

I am pretty sure Honey did not have a will, and the trustees and the heirs knew that. There was never a 'Find Honey's Will' request from these people. BTW the trustees and the heirs are closely related, by blood, friendship and business relations.

 

[ldlager]

My last sentence was:
"I do not think the existence or not of Honey's will has little or no bearing on the Sherman's deaths.
IMO"
What I believe is, The people who wanted Barry and Honey dead and actually killed them, were not concerned at all with Honey's will, if one even existed. Why?

Some possibilities, the Perpetrators of the crime,

• Knew Barry had a will and what was in it (that would likely be only a few people)
• Knew Honey had no will, (that would likely be only a few people)
• Knew that if Honey pre-deceased Barry, that Barry's estate would bypass Honey and directly to the heirs.

Who would know what was in Barry's will. Here are some possibilities.
Lawyers. Apotex and Barry's Holding Companies senior executives. Some or all of the trustees of the estate. Some or all of the heirs.

I am pretty sure Honey did not have a will, and the trustees and the heirs knew that. There was never a 'Find Honey's Will' request from these people. BTW the trustees and the heirs are closely related, by blood, friendship and business relations.

I think we ( me and From Germany anyways) are getting confused by the way your last sentence is written,, as it says that you do NOT (my emphasis) think that the existence of Honeys will has little or no bearing on the Sherman’s deaths. Which I/we infer means that you think that the existence of HS will DOES have a bearing on the Sherman’s deaths. But your subsequent posts seem to refute this notion. Thanks

 

[fadedglitter]

There is no evidence that Honey ever had a will. No person has stated that they witnessed her signing a will. A court has declared that she did not have a will. The current and former trustees of Barry’s will have never suggested that she had one. No individual with a financial stake in Honey having a will has ever suggested that she had one.

What we have is a single person who recalls Honey saying she was “updating her will”. It’s possible that she was in the process of creating one, but an incomplete will is no will at all.

The guesses about the possibility of a hidden or stolen will aren’t based in reality and don’t seem to lead anywhere interesting.

 

[WINDSOR]

I think we ( me and From Germany anyways) are getting confused by the way your last sentence is written,, as it says that you do NOT (my emphasis) think that the existence of Honeys will has little or no bearing on the Sherman’s deaths. Which I/we infer means that you think that the existence of HS will DOES have a bearing on the Sherman’s deaths. But your subsequent posts seem to refute this notion. Thanks

Sorry, for the confusion. You all are correct, I could have done a much better job explaining myself.

This is my opinion regarding the will.
If Honey had a will or not, it would have made no difference to the perpetrators. Her death was intentional and pre-meditated.

I could be very wrong in this opinion. I do understand there is a possibility that the perpetrators could have been aware of Honey having a new will being drawn up, which could have negatively impacted on the perpetrators. Then the perps would be in a rush to end the Sherman's lives, before this new will came into existence.

The TPS has stated, the Sherman's were likely under surveillance for some period of time before the murders, which precludes the idea of a 'rush' job. I still believe my opinion, that a will for Honey was irrelevant to the perpetrators.

One more thought related to the will, if the will was relevant to the perps, likely the perps are made up of some of the heirs.

IMO