CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #23

[FPoulet]

Just to point out a small detail. Some initial reports had her leaving Apotex at 5:30 but later they said she and the builders left at around 6:00.

So maybe:

-6:00 left Apotex
-6:21 she briefly called her friend (driving most likely)
-BV mall is about 25 minutes away if the roads are clear
-KD saw receipts or a statement that shows she made purchases so I’m guessing they know what time she made them
-she was caught on cctv at Sephora and an atm (times unknown)
-BV mall to their home was about 5 minutes
-8:20 is the time KD believes she arrived home

(Barry’s last email was sent from Apotex at 8:23 and KD said he left shortly afterwards, a 25 minute drive home if roads are clear).

KD believes the WM was at the home at around 8:45, so he may have been at 59 Bannatyne at around 8:20.

That’s off the top of my head, but I did a post a while back compiling KD’s timeline and 8:20 seems significant if KD is right.

imo—I’d had to dig up my old post with the supporting quotes and links.

Thanks for doing that. I thought I remembered Sephora but wasn’t sure. She could have been getting gifts for her kids too, ie Alex and her husband.

 

[dotr]

Thought… if we are remembering right that Honey left Apotex at 5:30pm, and it’s about 40 mins to Bayview Village Shopping Centre, and then less than 5 mins to Old Colony, and Honey arrived home at approximately 8pm, then she had approximately 1.75 hours at Bayview (or where?). I wonder if she might have grabbed a bite with anyone?

Also, do you think that TPS is analyzing the cell phone movement data on her phone like they did in the Murdaugh case in S Carolina? ie, where exactly was her phone and when; did it hit the floor of the powder room and when; did it skid; did it ever move after that (before the housekeeper moved it) and if so when; etc. Or is that not something TPS does or did do in this case? Even step counts can show activity/movement between different hour-long windows of time.

All MOO, speculation.

There’s a Multibillion-Dollar Market for Your Phone’s Location Data – The Markup

A huge but little-known industry has cropped up around monetizing people’s movements

themarkup.org

2021

'Dec 16, 2022
Meet EA's enhanced leading mobile movement database, MobileScapes—now featuring upgraded mapping features, advanced geofencing tools and topline insights reports.''

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Thanks for doing that. I thought I remembered Sephora but wasn’t sure. She could have been getting gifts for her kids too, ie Alex and her husband.

It bugs me that her wallet was found in clear view in the kitchen but KD said he didn’t see signs of purchases or her coat in the crime scene photos. But he said he didn’t see all of the photos.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Just to point out a small detail. Some initial reports had her leaving Apotex at 5:30 but later they said she and the builders left at around 6:00.

So maybe:

-6:00 left Apotex
-6:21 she briefly called her friend (driving most likely)
-BV mall is about 25 minutes away if the roads are clear
-KD saw receipts or a statement that shows she made purchases so I’m guessing they know what time she made them
-she was caught on cctv at Sephora and an atm (times unknown)
-BV mall to their home was about 5 minutes
-8:20 is the time KD believes she arrived home

(Barry’s last email was sent from Apotex at 8:23 and KD said he left shortly afterwards, a 25 minute drive home if roads are clear).

KD believes the WM was at the home at around 8:45, so he may have been at 59 Bannatyne at around 8:20.

That’s off the top of my head, but I did a post a while back compiling KD’s timeline and 8:20 seems significant if KD is right.

imo—I’d had to dig up my old post with the supporting quotes and links.

Thank you Lexi! Do we recall what time she butt dialled the builder, it was reported that shortly after the meeting she called him, he said he heard her giggling and figured it was a butt dial

 

[dotr]

Thank you Lexi! Do we recall what time she butt dialled the builder, it was reported that shortly after the meeting she called him, he said he heard her giggling and figured it was a butt dial

2021 rbbm

Grudges and gossip: A rocky start in the search for Barry and Honey Sherman killers

Newly released police documents show family members and friends started dropping names after billionaires were murdered at home.

www.thestar.com

''Honey left Apotex before 6:30 p.m., in her champagne-coloured Lexus SUV, and the three builders left in another vehicle. Honey “pocket dialed” one builder by mistake and he heard her “giggling for about 20 seconds” before she ended the call. While Barry stayed at work until about 8:30 p.m., Honey drove to Bayview Village shopping centre. The documents indicate she went to a CIBC branch between 7 p.m. and 8 p.m. and also to the MAC Cosmetics store inside the mall. It was not until four months after the murders that the police went to Bayview Village looking for security video. Most of the video had been overwritten but they were able to obtain footage of Honey at the CIBC branch. This part of the police documents is heavily redacted, but given that the branch would be long closed by the time Honey arrived it is possible the video police have shows Honey taking out cash from the ATM.
Police have continued to seal any information regarding what time the Shermans arrived home. The Star’s previous reporting suggests Honey was home by 8:30 p.m. (the Bayview mall is less than a 10-minute drive from Old Colony) and Barry shortly after.''

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Just to point out a small detail. Some initial reports had her leaving Apotex at 5:30 but later they said she and the builders left at around 6:00.

So maybe:

-6:00 left Apotex
-6:21 she briefly called her friend (driving most likely)
-BV mall is about 25 minutes away if the roads are clear
-KD saw receipts or a statement that shows she made purchases so I’m guessing they know what time she made them
-she was caught on cctv at Sephora and an atm (times unknown)
-BV mall to their home was about 5 minutes
-8:20 is the time KD believes she arrived home

(Barry’s last email was sent from Apotex at 8:23 and KD said he left shortly afterwards, a 25 minute drive home if roads are clear).

KD believes the WM was at the home at around 8:45, so he may have been at 59 Bannatyne at around 8:20.

That’s off the top of my head, but I did a post a while back compiling KD’s timeline and 8:20 seems significant if KD is right.

imo—I’d had to dig up my old post with the supporting quotes and links.

fwiw— Here’s my old post with sources to show what KD has said about the intersecting timeline between B, H & the WM.

If KD ever publishes an article about the timeline it would be a watershed moment, imo.

2021 rbbm

Grudges and gossip: A rocky start in the search for Barry and Honey Sherman killers

Newly released police documents show family members and friends started dropping names after billionaires were murdered at home.

www.thestar.com

''Honey left Apotex before 6:30 p.m., in her champagne-coloured Lexus SUV, and the three builders left in another vehicle. Honey “pocket dialed” one builder by mistake and he heard her “giggling for about 20 seconds” before she ended the call. While Barry stayed at work until about 8:30 p.m., Honey drove to Bayview Village shopping centre. The documents indicate she went to a CIBC branch between 7 p.m. and 8 p.m. and also to the MAC Cosmetics store inside the mall. It was not until four months after the murders that the police went to Bayview Village looking for security video. Most of the video had been overwritten but they were able to obtain footage of Honey at the CIBC branch. This part of the police documents is heavily redacted, but given that the branch would be long closed by the time Honey arrived it is possible the video police have shows Honey taking out cash from the ATM.
Police have continued to seal any information regarding what time the Shermans arrived home. The Star’s previous reporting suggests Honey was home by 8:30 p.m. (the Bayview mall is less than a 10-minute drive from Old Colony) and Barry shortly after.''

Thank you. I had forgotten about that and it’s a great quote for a timeline. And shoot, sorry—she went to MAC, not Sephora.

I haven’t looked at the court documents for a long time, but I don’t recall them saying she went to the CIBC between 7–8. Does that ring a bell for anyone?

 

[dotr]

rbbm

Five years later, inside the Barry and Honey Sherman murders

After a billionaire couple are found hanged by the railing of their indoor pool, a look back at the calm before the storm, the immediate finger pointing that left a family divided and the police still struggling to find a killer

www.thestar.com

'The builders meeting ended at 6:15 p.m. Honey headed to Bayview Village Mall to buy Hanukkah presents for Alexandra’s two children. A CIBC bank camera recorded footage of Honey, but that footage has not been made public by police. Honey was home from the mall just before 8 p.m.'

 

[ldlager]

2021 rbbm

Grudges and gossip: A rocky start in the search for Barry and Honey Sherman killers

Newly released police documents show family members and friends started dropping names after billionaires were murdered at home.

www.thestar.com

''Honey left Apotex before 6:30 p.m., in her champagne-coloured Lexus SUV, and the three builders left in another vehicle. Honey “pocket dialed” one builder by mistake and he heard her “giggling for about 20 seconds” before she ended the call. While Barry stayed at work until about 8:30 p.m., Honey drove to Bayview Village shopping centre. The documents indicate she went to a CIBC branch between 7 p.m. and 8 p.m. and also to the MAC Cosmetics store inside the mall. It was not until four months after the murders that the police went to Bayview Village looking for security video. Most of the video had been overwritten but they were able to obtain footage of Honey at the CIBC branch. This part of the police documents is heavily redacted, but given that the branch would be long closed by the time Honey arrived it is possible the video police have shows Honey taking out cash from the ATM.
Police have continued to seal any information regarding what time the Shermans arrived home. The Star’s previous reporting suggests Honey was home by 8:30 p.m. (the Bayview mall is less than a 10-minute drive from Old Colony) and Barry shortly after.'

 

[Lexiintoronto]

rbbm

Five years later, inside the Barry and Honey Sherman murders

After a billionaire couple are found hanged by the railing of their indoor pool, a look back at the calm before the storm, the immediate finger pointing that left a family divided and the police still struggling to find a killer

www.thestar.com

'The builders meeting ended at 6:15 p.m. Honey headed to Bayview Village Mall to buy Hanukkah presents for Alexandra’s two children. A CIBC bank camera recorded footage of Honey, but that footage has not been made public by police. Honey was home from the mall just before 8 p.m.'

Thank you. I guess to be accurate with a timeline we’d have to cite each varying reported time. I linked it above, KD’s latest was that Honey arrived home at 8:20 (time given in his documentary). KD has written 8:00, before 8:30 and said 8:20. I’ve also now seen 5:30, 6:00 and before 6:30 as the timing for the end of the meeting.

Her arriving home at around 8:00 would make more sense to me. She’d have the time to change her shoes, take off her coat, put her wallet on the kitchen counter and maybe put her purchases away somewhere before the WM arrived. ( ) Also if she arrived at the mall around 7:00 and left just before 8:00 that seems more reasonable for time spent shopping.

Mary said in her eulogy that she and Honey loved to shop so maybe what I’m seeing as a chore was fun for Honey. Spending that much time there may have been part of the best time of her day.

 

[dotr]

Wondering if all the family members still have, or will hire security detail, including in places where they each may travel? speculation, imo.
Jan 14, 2022:

'No justice for them, no closure for...my family': Timeline of developments in the Barry and Honey Sherman murder case

December 15 marks five years since prominent Canadian philanthropists Barry and Honey Sherman were found murdered inside their Toronto estate. Here is the full timeline of events of key developments in the case, dating back five years.

ca.news.yahoo.com

'' Unsealed documents into the investigation of the Shermans deaths reveal Honey Sherman’s sister, Mary Shechtman, believed “someone was making a statement” in their murders. "The Shermans were strong supporters of Israel and Honey was very vocal about being Jewish,” she said. “There were a lot of people of a certain ethnicity going through the house at a certain time and Honey would use phrases that were not politically correct."

Oct 28., 2022: In an exclusive, The Toronto Star reports that a homicide detective in the case says it is taking an “international flair”.

 

[RHR]

It bugs me that her wallet was found in clear view in the kitchen but KD said he didn’t see signs of purchases or her coat in the crime scene photos. But he said he didn’t see all of the photos.

She probably left the grandkids gifts in the car.

 

[RHR]

rbbm

Five years later, inside the Barry and Honey Sherman murders

After a billionaire couple are found hanged by the railing of their indoor pool, a look back at the calm before the storm, the immediate finger pointing that left a family divided and the police still struggling to find a killer

www.thestar.com

'The builders meeting ended at 6:15 p.m. Honey headed to Bayview Village Mall to buy Hanukkah presents for Alexandra’s two children. A CIBC bank camera recorded footage of Honey, but that footage has not been made public by police. Honey was home from the mall just before 8 p.m.'

That makes more sense. I have no idea why i had Honey leaving Apotex at 5.30 .

 

[Lexiintoronto]

That makes more sense. I have no idea why i had Honey leaving Apotex at 5.30 .

That’s what the CBC reported.

‘Honey Sherman left the meeting at about 5:30 p.m. and headed home. Barry Sherman stayed at the office for a few more hours to finish some work.

At 6:21 pm, Honey Sherman used her mobile phone to make a five-minute call to a friend. It appears to be the last time family or friends heard from her.’

 

[Cedars]

She probably left the grandkids gifts in the car.

This is a trivial detail, but I don't leave anything nice in a car parked outside in freezing weather, it can ruin lots of stuff.

JMO

 

[RHR]

This is a trivial detail, but I don't leave anything nice in a car parked outside in freezing weather, it can ruin lots of stuff.

JMO

rbbm

Five years later, inside the Barry and Honey Sherman murders

After a billionaire couple are found hanged by the railing of their indoor pool, a look back at the calm before the storm, the immediate finger pointing that left a family divided and the police still struggling to find a killer

www.thestar.com

'The builders meeting ended at 6:15 p.m. Honey headed to Bayview Village Mall to buy Hanukkah presents for Alexandra’s two children. A CIBC bank camera recorded footage of Honey, but that footage has not been made public by police. Honey was home from the mall just before 8 p.m.'

2021 rbbm

Grudges and gossip: A rocky start in the search for Barry and Honey Sherman killers

Newly released police documents show family members and friends started dropping names after billionaires were murdered at home.

www.thestar.com

''Honey left Apotex before 6:30 p.m., in her champagne-coloured Lexus SUV, and the three builders left in another vehicle. Honey “pocket dialed” one builder by mistake and he heard her “giggling for about 20 seconds” before she ended the call. While Barry stayed at work until about 8:30 p.m., Honey drove to Bayview Village shopping centre. The documents indicate she went to a CIBC branch between 7 p.m. and 8 p.m. and also to the MAC Cosmetics store inside the mall. It was not until four months after the murders that the police went to Bayview Village looking for security video. Most of the video had been overwritten but they were able to obtain footage of Honey at the CIBC branch. This part of the police documents is heavily redacted, but given that the branch would be long closed by the time Honey arrived it is possible the video police have shows Honey taking out cash from the ATM.
Police have continued to seal any information regarding what time the Shermans arrived home. The Star’s previous reporting suggests Honey was home by 8:30 p.m. (the Bayview mall is less than a 10-minute drive from Old Colony) and Barry shortly after.''

Would the police have a log of the times that the alarm was turned on and off ?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Would the police have a log of the times that the alarm was turned on and off ?

Yes it’s in the court documents, but some of it is redacted.
I posted the screenshots here but the original link is glitchy.

List of alarm code activity in the documents:

-December 12th @ 11:01pm (I think that’s either Barry arriving home or they set the alarm for the night.)
-December 13th @ 8:10am (this matches the general time Barry would open the front door to pick up the morning paper.)
-December 13th @ 4:34 pm (this matches the time Honey left the home if she arrived at Apotex at around 5:00 pm.)
-[Date and time redacted] I think that is possibly December 13th @ around 8:00-8:20 pm when Honey arrived home and entered, imo. There’s no activity after that, and the redacted area is the same size as the other events which seem routine, so I’m guessing it was another ordinary PIN code entry to disable the alarm.

ETA: Link to documents.
Sherman Murders Police Affidavit 12 Sept 1 2020 (Appendix D)

 

[newclues]

Yes it’s in the court documents, but some of it is redacted.
I posted the screenshots here but the original link is glitchy.

List of alarm code activity in the documents:

-December 12th @ 11:01pm (I think that’s either Barry arriving home or they set the alarm for the night.)
-December 13th @ 8:10am (this matches the general time Barry would open the front door to pick up the morning paper.)
-December 13th @ 4:34 pm (this matches the time Honey left the home if she arrived at Apotex at around 5:00 pm.)
-[Date and time redacted] I think that is possibly December 13th @ around 8:00-8:20 pm when Honey arrived home and entered, imo. There’s no activity after that, and the redacted area is the same size as the other events which seem routine, so I’m guessing it was another ordinary PIN code entry to disable the alarm.

ETA: Link to documents.
Sherman Murders Police Affidavit 12 Sept 1 2020 (Appendix D)
View attachment 486922View attachment 486923

Since the alarm had to be deactivated in order to enter the house undetected, HS had to arrive home first to turn off the alarm. Then, the NW had to gain entry into the house after the alarm was off. Was it someone HS knew and let in or was it someone who came in through an unlocked backyard door after the alarm was turned off? Was the NW waiting in the backyard for HS/BS to come home and turn off the alarm upon HS/BS entering their house?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

She probably left the grandkids gifts in the car.

Do we know 100% that she actually bought anything at BV? She shopped, maybe found nothing and got cash out for the kids gifts?

Maybe the wallet left out was part of the staging, showing it was not a robbery, maybe HS did not put it there?

 

[RHR]

Yes it’s in the court documents, but some of it is redacted.
I posted the screenshots here but the original link is glitchy.

List of alarm code activity in the documents:

-December 12th @ 11:01pm (I think that’s either Barry arriving home or they set the alarm for the night.)
-December 13th @ 8:10am (this matches the general time Barry would open the front door to pick up the morning paper.)
-December 13th @ 4:34 pm (this matches the time Honey left the home if she arrived at Apotex at around 5:00 pm.)
-[Date and time redacted] I think that is possibly December 13th @ around 8:00-8:20 pm when Honey arrived home and entered, imo. There’s no activity after that, and the redacted area is the same size as the other events which seem routine, so I’m guessing it was another ordinary PIN code entry to disable the alarm.

ETA: Link to documents.
Sherman Murders Police Affidavit 12 Sept 1 2020 (Appendix D)
View attachment 486922View attachment 486923

Yes it’s in the court documents, but some of it is redacted.
I posted the screenshots here but the original link is glitchy.

List of alarm code activity in the documents:

-December 12th @ 11:01pm (I think that’s either Barry arriving home or they set the alarm for the night.)
-December 13th @ 8:10am (this matches the general time Barry would open the front door to pick up the morning paper.)
-December 13th @ 4:34 pm (this matches the time Honey left the home if she arrived at Apotex at around 5:00 pm.)
-[Date and time redacted] I think that is possibly December 13th @ around 8:00-8:20 pm when Honey arrived home and entered, imo. There’s no activity after that, and the redacted area is the same size as the other events which seem routine, so I’m guessing it was another ordinary PIN code entry to disable the alarm.

ETA: Link to documents.
Sherman Murders Police Affidavit 12 Sept 1 2020 (Appendix D)
View attachment 486922View attachment 486923

Wasn't there a window left open to air out the smell of paint and also a side door thought i read was often left open.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Since the alarm had to be deactivated in order to enter the house undetected, HS had to arrive home first to turn off the alarm. Then, the NW had to gain entry into the house after the alarm was off. Was it someone HS knew and let in or was it someone who came in through an unlocked backyard door after the alarm was turned off? Was the NW waiting in the backyard for HS/BS to come home and turn off the alarm upon HS/BS entering their house?

Sorry see the post now with these details thanks RHR

Or the perp knew the code to disarm or technically knew how to disarm it, remember the Friday housekeeper noticed it was not active when she entered the home, a first for her it appears as she had to enter her code all other entries.

Curious if LE know the last codes used and when.